Today, glassing and cross-bolting to manage the distribution of stress through the stock is the way we manage to avoid cracking stocks. There are few makes that have avoided reports: Winchester (rest in peace), Ruger has had reports, and most notoriously by some accounts, CZ.

Question is -- how was it done in the old days? I know from elementary ideas of strengths of materials that joints between stronger and weaker materials could be managed by widening the base of contact to spread the force over wider areas, reducing strain on the weaker material. So care in design and shape (big, bulky and heavy is what that spells) would avoid a lot of the problem. Today, composites work; I understand that re-enforcement of the grip by wrapping it in rhino hide was popular...

OK -- so how did those fine graceful English guns an older doubles keep their stocks intact even after a century of use?

Dan

Great question!!! I hope that you get a lot of answers. I have wondered this myself many times.

Hello,
Early pre 64 Model 70's had their share of split stocks and have one in my shop in 375HH now w/ double cross bolts, lug on barrel/glassed and wood behind action lug is defnitely cracked. Matter of fact I have seen quite a few with linear breaks. Not sure all these so called cracks are due to recoil, but may well result in temperature, humidity, atmospheric reasons as well as recoil?? Believe a lot of the wood stocks need to be a bit better sealed inside as well as on the surface.
Can speak with experience of some 30 years ago in Alaska that the extreme cold and wet really worked on wood stocks to the point many switched over to then the "state of the art..." synthetic stocks. Bedded walnut stocks not only cracked, shrunk, warped, etc. and really made the synthetic look good even if they were not pretty.

Take apart, say an old Brno m.21 or a newer ZG 47 and see how the fit is between the parts.
Now do the same with basically any FACTORY rifle. Guaranateed you wont see the same fit and perfection. I think thats one factor.
Then figure what, say Rigby or HoH could, and still can do with endless amounts of money.(from the buyer...)

Just what I think...

A secomd recoil lug mounted on the barrel and gla glass bedded in place.. Works wonders. It's not rocket science.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
A secomd recoil lug mounted on the barrel and gla glass bedded in place.. Works wonders. It's not rocket science.-Rob

Rob,
I don't think you read the initial post. He's asking what they did in the days before glass bedding.
Cheers,
Canuck

Do you think barrel mounted lugs are a new idea? They just took the time to inlet the stocks for them better so that glass bedding isn't necessary. Same thing for the actions. It just takes inletting black, sharpe scrapers and time. The Dremel tools of yesterday.-Rob

Ok -- there are some specific points coming up...

• Tight fit -- needs to be cut with care (modern case handled most easily with glass).
  
• Stable -- used to be handled with seasoning the wood well -- is that all? Or was there more to it? (Modern case -- glass doesn't change as much as wood).
  
• Material strengths -- handled by wood selection, grain alignment? How about inserts (used to be an arrow shaft would be "footed" by adding harder wood where the arrowhead was attached; any equivalent in stock work?) (Modern case -- you can drill a plug behind the receiver and fill it with glass to distribute the shock through sensitive parts of the stock -- no?)
  
• Barrel mounted lugs -- did they have the same shape size then that we're using now? Were they larger? Different shape? Pluses or minuses over modern use?
  
• How about finishing and sealing? What were the compounds used... were they actually better than we have today? or how did they avoid warping and water damage?
  

What other art did they employ?

Dan

VERY good and tight inletting, and aged (not just dried) wood

Most of the big bores were used in areas of low humidity, so I don't think the wood sealing and hence warping was an issue.

Bedding certainly is a time saver and allows one to be sloppy in their inletting. Epoxy is a woderful product to make properly dried stocks into very stable stocks in the worst environments.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Do you think barrel mounted lugs are a new idea?

Obviously, no. Sheesh...you peeved at me because it looked (and still looks) to me like you answered before reading (or after only skimming)? My point was meant in good humour..hence the smiley face.

quote:

They just took the time to inlet the stocks for them better so that glass bedding isn't necessary. Same thing for the actions. It just takes inletting black, sharpe scrapers and time. The Dremel tools of yesterday.-Rob

I think that's more what DanEP was looking for.

Canuck