I have shoot a big male moose today with my .460 Weatherby loaded with 500 grains Hornady RN at 2600 FPS!

It was standing at 80 yards and I shoot it behind the shoulder with the first shoot. He then start to run for 50-60 yards. Then I shoot the 2nd shoot when he is running and I hit him right in the shoulder bone. He goes down at once.

Then when we looked at the wound channel it was 35 mm in diameter. But when we looked at that bullet that hit him in the shoulder bone.. the hole was BIG! I put my fist into it
The wound was around 100 MM in diameter. I think thats because the "bone hit"

Well, that was the first "460 wby moose" story

congrats OK,

Did you manage to recover the bullet by any chance ??

Great shooting overkill! There really is nothing like 'using enough gun'!!

maxman

Excellent. Good shooting, especially that second shot!

Now you need to post a picture. I would love to see it.

Yes, a Picture Please.

You must get a bigger gun so you can knock them down

OK,
didn't knock it over?
just kidding
jeffe

Overkill-way to go! Did your first shot go clear through the moose? How about the second shot? judy

Good job OverKill! We must have photos!

[ 09-27-2003, 00:09: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]

that must have given a lot of meat damage!

overkill, indeed......

I did not recover any of the 2 bullets..
Now I know that bullets dont knock over animals

But I am really thinking of a .600 OK-3 with a Leupold 1,5-5 x scope.

Overkill-if the bullets had dumped all their energy into the animals <e.g. not over-penetrated> perhaps the bullets would have knocked the animal over! I have seen elk 'knocked over' by a 458 Win mag <well to be accurate, they fell over so quickly they landed on the backs>! The bullets were found on the off side under the hide. judy

Pictures and congrats-Rob

Judy

If a 45 cal. 500 gr. bullet has a velocity of say 1500 fps and does not completely penetrate and exit the animal then 100 percent of the energy of the bullet is utilized inside the animal. If that same bullet is travelling at 2600 fps and does pass thru the animal isnt it logical that while some of its energy may have been spent after exiting that more energy was expended inside the animal than the total amount available with the slower bullet?

By your logic then a .22 lr would expend more energy in the moose than the .460 wby did.

The ability to exit the animal does not negate the amount of energy expended inside the animal.

Jim B.

Jim B.- using your analysis then, a 30 cal. rifle and it's bullet passes clear through the animal--then it transfered the same amount of energy to the animal as overkill's 460 Weatherby mag. did.

Question for you. . . have you ever shot anything with a rifle larger than say 375 caliber? Believe it or not the bigger the bullet diameter the more dramatic the results.

Darn Judy. I have to say, you have a point, or, to be better, you have surface area.

My gunsmith, who is NO joke, says that a neglected calculation is that the overall surface area of the bullet contributes to the amount of energy imparted to the target. In other words, the larger the surface area of the bullet, the more energy can be dispersed to the target.

This explains, the otherwise unexplanable affect of a 458 500 grain bullet, and it's superior affect to a 400 grain 458 bullet, at superior speed, on large animals.

gs

I have no camera so I have not take any pictures.
The moose seems to be hard to get down. This morning a friend of mine shoot a very big male moose. With his .338 Win loaded with 250 grains Torphy Bonded at 60 yards. He shoot 4 shoots at the shoulder and the moose jusr run. Because the bullets took behind the shoulder. In the lungs. And then with the 5 nd shoot it went down!!

I just wait to get 18 years old. Then I buy a .600 OK-3 with a 28 inch barrel and with a Leuplod scope on.

Overkill-I don't know about your moose, but our moose are definitely difficult to put down quickly with body hits! I witnessed a big bull soak up 5, 250gr fail safes, all in the chest cavity, from a 338 Win mag, and keep on truck'n. He made it out into a lake, in water over our heads, before expiring. Made removal a real pain in the a_s. He ran about 1/2 - 3/4 mile before swimming for a 100 yards or so. This moose tipped the scales at 1300 pounds + or -.

No Judy

You infer that a bullet that passes thru an animal imparts less energy inside that animal than a slower bullet that imparts 100 percent of its energy inside the body.

My assertion is that a bullet that exits the body imparts more total energy inside the body of the animal and then has even more energy left over to exit the animal. I agree that it did not expend ALL of its energy inside the animal. That is irrelevant to the issue of EXACTLY HOW MUCH ENERGY WAS DELIVERED INSIDE OF THE ANIMAL. The faster bullet that exits MUST deliver MORE energy to the animal. Physics proves that assumption.

Just for pretend numbers

Bullet 500 gr. out of a .460 wby.

Ex. 1 Impacts the outside skin of the moose at 1500 fps, energy at impact 2000 ft/lbs.

Ex. 2 Impacts the outside skin of the moose at 2200 fps, energy at impact 3500 ft/lbs.

Bullet 1 stays within the animal, Bullet 2 exits the animal. Does the energy needed to get just to the skin of the off side of the animal change between the bullets? No. Therefore there is more energy released INSIDE the animal by the faster bullet. It arrives with more energy and it does more damage to the animal. Logic asserts that it has imparted MORE energy to the animal. It might be argued that it is wasted energy but it has been delivered.

Jim

Jim B- you said: 'It might be argued that it is wasted energy but it has been delivered.'

I do not think there is any argument at all about this statement. It IS wasted energy! So what you are really trying to saying is that, Overkill should move up to a larger caliber, which will deliver more energy into the target, since it takes more energy to push the larger diameter bullet through the target.
Overkill, looks like you are spot on with you decision to get the 600 OK.

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 00:51: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Listening to crying kids makes my head hurt.
listening to clinton makes my head hurt.
reading judy's post's makes my head hurt.

jeffeosso-you ever shoot anything bigger than one of those scrawny, 100#, Texas deer or pigs? When you shot these little critters were you using a REAL big bore
<e.g. not you whimpy 376 Steyr>? I am betting your answer is, NO.

First your incorrect statements about the M70 and what cartridges it could handle, <on a different thread> and now this. You should just keep your ignorant mouth shut, jeffeosso. Or, is it that you NEED to mouth-off, pretending to be an expert on all things firearms/hunting, because somehow it makes you feel good about yourself? You do realize that to those, few it would seem here at AR, who have some hunting experience, that your comments advertise your ignorance like a GIANT neon sign. To put it in simple terms, not many actually think you know diddly squat, jeffeosso, they are just <ROTFLTAO> and eggin' your ignorant arse on. Anyway, feel free to keep diggin'. I know that the majority of readers here will keep on laughin' at y'all.

[ 09-28-2003, 23:59: Message edited by: Judy ]

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 00:52: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 00:53: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

jeffeosso, this is exactly what you said:
==================================================
'and, for what it's worth, the 500 jeffery was DESIGNED for a magnum action, as the schuler, and the 585 was only MEANT FOR THE 550/602 CZ or enfield. read ross's write some time.'
==================================================
To me, anyway, your statement seems to indicate that YOU feel that ONLY the magnum action and/or CZ550/602 will work for these cartridges. I think it is you, who may need to read Ross' write up on the 585 Nyati's origins. IIRC, he used a Mauser M98, standard action. The Jeffery was not designed for a MAGNUM action either, it was designed to fit a STANDARD length action. This was Schuler's intent. It will fit easily in a M70, too. I have seen one, it fed well also.

As far as, saying nothing, I stand in the shadow of YOUR greatness! Again, in the name calling department, I stand in the shadow of YOUR greatness. Please, if nothing else, just answer this question, which I asked before, and answer it with specific examples:
==================================================
'jeffeosso-you ever shoot anything bigger than one of those scrawny, 100#, Texas deer or pigs? When you shot these little critters were you using a REAL big bore
<e.g. not you whimpy 376 Steyr>? I am betting your answer is, NO.'
==================================================
If you are afraid to answer the question, <and I bet you are> jeffeosso, just shut-up and leave me alone.

I bet he replies without answering the question. He will dance around the question. He'll call me a slut a few more times, and most likely ignorant as well. Finally he'll end with how I am somehow really the dreaded AXEL or TOAD. He is rather pathetic in his predictable and systematic approach to dodging the truth and twisting words other's post, ain't he. Perhaps he would benefit from a course in debate?

Finally, I did not call anyone any names. I'll leave that to jeffeosso. Afterall, he is so good at it.

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 00:54: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 00:55: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Soooo.....Judy, did you ever get that operation?

Now after I have shoot tihs moose with my .460 I just say one thing! I WOULD NOT EVER BUY OR USE A DOUBLE RIFLE FOR DANGEROUS GAME. Because with a Bolt Action you get of 3 or 4 shoots much faster than with a double..
2 shoots is not enough some times!

Overkill, congrats on your moose.

Now I have some comments for the trolls.

jeffeosso, calm down man! You seem to be about to rupture something that aught not be ruptured. Judy had a good question though, what have you hunted with the big guns?

Judy, Gator's question intrigues me. What surgery did you have? I would like to know what you have hunted with the big guns. I really want to know how much experience YOU have.

A couple of comments on momentum. The momentum of a 250 lb football player running at 12 mph is: 136.6. I do not believe any one will dispute that this guy would bowl you over!

The momentum of a 570 gr bullet at 2400 fps is: 6.1. Might knock over a house cat.

I have shot cattle with a 500 Jeffery and they went down pretty damned hard. Were they knocked down by momentum, I don't think so. I also shot a 55 gallon drum filled with cattle and hog entrails, and support on saw horses, with the 500 Jeffery. It went down as well. Again I don't think momentum was the reason. I think that there was just enough of a push delivered by that big bullet that the rickety saw horses gave way. I honestly though, have no idea why either one fell down as quickly as they did. BTW, the drum when shot with a 300 Win mag didn't do squat. I do know this though. If you shoot the animal in the right spot it won't be standing for long!

Kent

Kent,
You are new here, so you don't have a history with the troll.

With this particular rifle,376, I have taken hogs, black buck, squirrls, racoon, and about a ream of paper. Hogs range from 50 lbs (great for BBQ) to 250+ .. not great for BBQ.

other big guns i've hutned with...
577 ntrio (not mine)
450 alaskan (not mine)
416 rem, rigby and taylor
450marlin
376 steyr

to be hunted, as they are new to me
58 cal double BP rifle kodiak
500 jeffery
458 winchester

haven't been to africa
haven't hunted elk, moose, or bison...
which leaves that next largest animal
hogs

You have a PM, Kent

Oh, and unlike the troll, People on this board have seen and shot MY rifles...

jeffe

[ 09-29-2003, 21:25: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Damn, Brucie! You're talking mighty tough (and shrill) behind the shield of your keyboard today!

I sure wish you could come to Texas and meet a REAL "knuckle dragger."

If you ever ventured outside the realm of Saeed's America Bashing forum here, you would know Jeffe has forgotten more about guns than you'll ever know.

Your "unpleasant" comments about Jeffe are even more stupid than the crap you've been trying so desperately to peddle about me. And THAT'S saying something.

Pour yourself back into the bottle you crawled out of Brucie.

<edited for political correctness>

Show us PROOF, Judy. Make one!

Jeffe

[ 10-07-2003, 01:01: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

jeffeosso, read your PM. I don't understand some of it, but if you mean I don't always agree with folks around here that is true. I was gone for a while and don't post here often, but I have always posted as "Kent in IA", cause that is who I am and where I live. I did not realize all the things you stated. I would recommend though that you watch the name calling. That is why I posted the way I did. Heck I thought you were picking on some poor helpless woman. Foolish me.

Judy - we are waiting for your response. So far I have to say jeffeosso has been upfront and honest. Definitely not troll behavior. Judy, you ain't impressing me much.

Kent

~judy, forgive me for reminding you of your post a year ago where you CLAIMED you were going on your first elk hunt. And you CLAIMED you were going to shoot your husband's 416 Rigby. (because you shot it SOOOooooo well ) And you CLAIMED when you actually saw an elk, you shot at it and MISSED and the rifle "knocked me on my butt."

This bullshit of bullets KNOCKING THINGS OVER has been disproven so many times that it's laughable to even bring the subject up! Only a troll with little real knowledge would be dumb enough. (Hint, Hint)

Once again class: "The violent reaction of a person or animal being struck by a bullet is caused BY that person or animal's physiological reaction to being shot, i.e. muscles contracting etc. The BULLET does not knock squat over or flip it on it's back or all these other idiot things only Trolls believe.

(Reminds me why I stopped teaching years ago! I just can't handle morons.)

Overkill - Sorry to ignore your original comment. Congratulations on your fine moose kill. Certainly striking a major bone will dramatically increase the wound damage by upsetting and deforming the bullet, PLUS it also turns a lot of bone fragments into projectiles themselves.........which can do as much damage as the bullet!

Many years ago in American tests of bullet wounds etc, we used hogs about the same weight as a man for our "test subjects." The experimented with every possible scenario. In one such series of tests, they shot the hogs IN THE STOMACH after they had eaten a meal of corn. What they found during the autopsy was that kernels of the corn had been blown into the hog's BRAIN! This should give you some idea as to the possibilities of "secondary projectiles" from a bullet wound.

[ 09-29-2003, 22:51: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]