I recently had 2 inches taken off the barrel of my 458 Lott built on a ZKK 602 action. Pre the barrel being cut the rifle shot adequately for an open sight DG rifle. I just had it restocked as well and took it to the range today to shoot it and see how it prints. With the same loads i have always used it is shooting way low at 20 metres ; 6 inches low to be exact. I tried holding a fuller bead which improved matters but as you can see from the picture below it is still not acceptable.

I know that i need to lower the front sight but we i do the maths it spits out a figure that seems impossible given the height of the front sight

Sight radius = 18 inches
Distance to move bullets strike = 6 inches
Range to target in feet = 22
height front bead 7mm

Target


Rifle


Any advice?

Thanks

sure .. you need a shorter front sight.
goto brownells.com and look for the sight height calculator ,, its moved, so i forget where

the inserts are CHEAP and CZ sells them .. if your is marked 7, i would get the 4 and 5 .. and perhaps 4.5

nice looking rifle

Sight radius = 1.5 feet
Target distance = 65.6 feet

To move bullet up 6 inches the front sight needs to be lowered by 1.5/65.6 X 6" = .137" = 3.45 mm

How about adjusting the rear sight?
A new custom single blade would be easy to fit.

I am not up on metric, but you can do the computation in inches and then convert the final answer to metric. Sight Height formulas is:

(Error in Inches times Sight Radius in Inches) Divided by the Distance to the Target in Inches

ETA: You could just substitute mm for inches in the formula and be done with it.

But to make yours shoot higher, you need either a lesser front sight height,
or a greater rear sight height.
CZ makes at least three different rear sight insert heights.
We have posted extensively about this on a previous thread here ...

See thread just brought back up: "Another CZ Sight Question"
http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/7761093311

Nice rifle.Before buying or modifying anything I would do the following.I have had your issue more than once and it had nothing to do with the size of ny sight.With the lott,if you can undo the guard screws by simply using your hand and a screwdriver,this may be the problem.Remove the barreled action from the stock a nd put everything back together again making sure the trigger guard assemly is not binding anywhere.Remove the sight screw on your rear sights and degrease it along with your guard screws and any other stock screw.Use loctite(red or blue)on all the screws and tighten them as tight as you possibly can with a screw driver.If you can get these screws tighter by any means do so.Let the screws set for a week before firing the rifle.The POI should now be higher.If this is not the case,try shooting it again a few days later.If it is still low,then I guess you need a new front sight or change the rear sight.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Remove the sight screw on your rear sights and degrease it along with your guard screws and any other stock screw.Use loctite(red or blue)on all the screws and tighten them as tight as you possibly can with a screw driver.If you can get these screws tighter by any means do so.

Imo, this is bad advise!

Calculations in metric are:

R = Sight radius = 450mm
D = Distance to target = 20m = 20,000mm
M = Point of impact movement = 150mm

D/R = 20,000/450 = 44.4

M/ (D/R) = 3.4mm = Change to front sight height

But I'd strongly advise that you shoot targets at 50m and 100m to be sure of the point of impact.

I hope that you know better than to listen to Shootaway. Just go get yourself a lower front sight and be done with it.

Shootaway- Jeffe isn't a armchair gunsmith which you would know if you could read and comprehend,however, your a fucking IDIOT. You REALLY NEED to Learn to keep your stupid mouth shut if you dont know anything about the subject. Moron. That includes anything having to do with Guns!
Sorry folks but I dont suffer fools well!
As Jeffe said buy some front sight inserts from Brownells that are .1 to .15 inches lower than your current sight. Find the one that works and return the others. Easy problem to resolve.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway- Jeffe isn't a armchair gunsmith which you would know if you could read and comprehend,however, your a fucking IDIOT. You REALLY NEED to Learn to keep your stupid mouth shut if you dont know anything about the subject. Moron. That includes anything having to do with Guns!
Sorry folks but I dont suffer fools well!
As Jeffe said buy some front sight inserts from Brownells that are .1 to .15 inches lower than your current sight. Find the one that works and return the others. Easy problem to resolve.-Rob

You get to angry when people don't see eye to eye with you on shooting matters.

I have seen many customers come into my shop with a gun that had the same procedure carried out such as Shootaway described. Using the RED Loctite which is described as NON SERVICE REMOVABLE on any gun screws aside from the scope bases is a great way to cause a lot of grief later on. Even blue Loctite is not needed on the guard screws if PROPERLY tightened. At least on scope base screws the proper application of heat will break the bond of the Loctite. Fitting a new lower front sight blade is really the easiest way to go.
Good Luck. Listen to jeffeosso and RobGunbuilder for the advice to follow. They have a hell of a lot more experience than SHOOAWAY. That is not a typo by the way!!!!!

Good Luck and Good Shooting
Bob G.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob G:
I have seen many customers come into my shop with a gun that had the same procedure carried out such as Shootaway described. Using the RED Loctite which is described as NON SERVICE REMOVABLE on any gun screws aside from the scope bases is a great way to cause a lot of grief later on. Even blue Loctite is not needed on the guard screws if PROPERLY tightened. At least on scope base screws the proper application of heat will break the bond of the Loctite. Fitting a new higher front sight blade is really the easiest way to go.
Good Luck. Listen to jeffeosso and RobGunbuilder for the advice to follow. They have a hell of a lot more experience than SHOOAWAY. That is not a typo by the way!!!!!

Good Luck and Good Shooting
Bob G.

You never shot the lott before that's for sure.There is no way that your guard screws will stay tight without loctite or an equivalent.But, here you are giving advice on shooting the lott.

I certainly am not about to get into a pissing contest but I do have a bit of experience with big bore rifles. I shoot 2 50 BMG rifles and have several other big bores, namely a Ruger NO.1 in 458 Lott,458 Win Mag. Browning Safari,416 Rigby NO.1,WBY. 416 Mag,and several other big bores. I get a kick out of shooting big bore rifles. No pun intended. I just never had the chance to shoot any of the really big bores such as the ones that RobGunbuilder has.
I think I am fully qualified to comment on the subject at hand.
Bob G.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
You must be a "in from one ear and out the other" type of person-like Rob!

Would you please stop talking. You are making all us Canadians look bad. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Quote: Fitting a new higher front sight blade is really the easiest way to go.
I'm staying out of this one but this is wrong if you are shooting low.

Pegleg
Thanks for the correction. You are correct. The post that I was responding to got me too excited.

With my muzzel Loader At 50 yds I'm shooting about 12" low so I made my rear sight higher
Will try it out tomorrow. I think to lift up you bring your rear sight up. To lower you bring the rear sight down.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I don't want to belong to any country people like you are from.

You can always separate...

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
With my muzzel Loader At 50 yds I'm shooting about 12" low so I made my rear sight higher
Will try it out tomorrow. I think to lift up you bring your rear sight up. To lower you bring the rear sight down.

Yes.
And the opposite applies to the front sight.

I liked the suggestion of having an assortment of front sight inserts to adjust your sights to the POI, and then return the unused ones. This will be something that will have to be worked out with my 500AccRel as well.
Rodney.

I know I said I would stay out of this, but in my experience it is much easier to adjust the rear sight than mess with the front sight. Of course it also depends on how the gun fits you when shouldered. If you have to really get down on the stock to get lined up on the sights then the rear sight is the one to adjust. JMHO

our local dump had an offical shooting range in it .. which whas kinda FUN to do.. the tannerite didn't start will about 5 years ago

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's you who can't read.I said that he may need a new front sight or change his rear sight on my first post on this thread.

Nice rifle.Before buying or modifying anything I would do the following.I have had your issue more than once and it had nothing to do with the size of ny sight.With the lott,if you can undo the guard screws by simply using your hand and a screwdriver,this may be the problem.Remove the barreled action from the stock a nd put everything back together again making sure the trigger guard assemly is not binding anywhere.Remove the sight screw on your rear sights and degrease it along with your guard screws and any other stock screw.Use loctite(red or blue)on all the screws and tighten them as tight as you possibly can with a screw driver.If you can get these screws tighter by any means do so.Let the screws set for a week before firing the rifle.The POI should now be higher.If this is not the case,try shooting it again a few days later.If it is still low,then I guess you need a new front sight or change the rear sight.

You really are a piece of work...lol

IanD, if Canada's gun laws are designed to protect the populace from danger the decision to let Shootaway own a 458 Lott (or any other firearm) ranks as one of the great government oxymorons of all time. Your nation has our sympathy.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
IanD, if Canada's gun laws are designed to protect the populace from danger the decision to let Shootaway own a 458 Lott (or any other firearm) ranks as one of the great government oxymorons of all time. Your nation has our sympathy.

Loser.It's assholes like you who need their guns taken away from and with comments like that,I am sure you have a history of issues.

Dammit! I wish you guys would quit quoting shootaway!
If he were an Obama cabinet member (perfect qualifications),
he would soon be forced to resign.

Shootaway- I used to think you were just a harmless IDIOT and that you'd eventually learn something and normalize. Now I'm convinced your just a total Fucking Idiot. Are you the microcephalic offspring of ScottS and a sheep?

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway- I used to think you were just a harmless IDIOT and that you'd eventually learn something and normalize. Now I'm convinced your just a total Fucking Idiot. Are you the microcephalic offspring of ScottS and a sheep?

i mut say, i am somewhat embarassed by my part in taking this thread off track

sorry

Wow who thought a thread on sights would create so much heat?

Thanks for all the constructive advice, i did the calculations in metric as per Mike & Phillips suggestions and i have another front sight in the post on its way from a local gunsmith. We can only get 3mm lower and not 3,45mm but i will put it on and shoot the gun and see how it goes, if we still need to lift it, i will have a custom rear sight machined - luckily on the ZKK it should be fairly straight forward to do.

Thanks again

I had a custom rear and front sight made up for my Husky 9.3 so that I could see over the Recknagel bases.
I was little problem for the Smith and minimal $$.

I fitted a 4mm High front sight this week-end and took my rifle back to the range to see whether the 3mm adjustment would suffice. I am very happy to say that dropping the sight by 3mm made a big difference. My shooting could use some fine tuning as could the windage but i am back in the ball park and 80% of the way there. Thanks again for all the sound advice

Here is the target, 20 metres off sticks simulating field shooting position

That's better shooting Scott450. I was really getting concerned that I would have to step into the fray here and make the only suggestion that all our learned friends have forgotten about in all the abuse flying back and forwards - just give the barrel a little bend upwards between front and rear sight. That would get you on target I'm sure.

Sounds like you should not have cut off but scence you did you will have to lower your front sight.

Hmm, did you loctite everyting down anduse an air impact tool to tighten everything.. or just insert the front site

jro -- my own POV is that the 25" barrel is a nusance, and the shorter barrel is far more handy ... and wortj the 8 bucks USD to change the blade.

I'll wade in! By cutting back the barrel and re-installing the front sight you have (as the barrel is thicker) effectively RAISED your front sight.

That is why it shoots low.

Now given that it is a BRNO ZKK you'll know that interchangeable front sight were/are available. So that is the easy solution.

However IF that then gives you simply too "short" a blade there is another answer providing your rearsight island is easily removable from the gun.

Remove and remount further back your whole rearsight island. To raise raise the rearsight by that 3mm. Usually a simple drill and tap job on the barrel. Or pack it with a shaped 3mm thick "cushion" that can be profiled to fit it and the barrel.