Well its being done as we read. My 458 win is going to be a 458 Lott. Its a 22" barrel what do you experts think I can do for FPS with a 500 gr bullet??
And with a 400 gr. bullet???
Want to share any loads to help me get started. And at last your overall opinion of the Lott. Thanks MD

P.S. Maby I should have checked this out before??

Got a copy of the following by e-mail. Don't know if is true or accurate but here it is for your possible use.

Will

This might be of interest:

A friend of mine gave me a copy of a letter today, written in 1993 by Jack Lott,to a hunter in Tx. asking for .458 Lott loads.
These loads were developed with Lott by David Miller of David Miller Rifle Co. one of the finest custom smiths around. Lott and Miller were looking for a load that would reliably give 2300 fps with a 500 gr. bullet in a 22"barrel and would not develop pressure signs in high heat. Mr. Lott admits that you can get over 2400 fps, but states that 2300fps gives more than adequate penetration on Cape Buffalo and Elephant without sticky extraction. These loads used reformed Winchester brass, 500 gr. Hornady solids and soft points. It is interesting to note that Mr. Lott talks about his reasons for developing the .458 LOtt. After being smashed up by a wounded buffalo in Mozambique that he had hit twice with a .458 Win and then several times with a .375 by his pro, and a few more hits with the .458 for a total of 8
bullets, he decided something with more penetration was needed. The powder used is
IMR 4320 with a Federal #215 mag primer. 22" bbl.

83.0 gr. = 2202 fps.
84.0 = 2308
85.0 = 2330
86.0 = 2355
Case length o/a = 2.800
O/all loaded length = 3.600
Bullets were full crimped

I could never duplicate these old loads with IMR 4320. Today best loads are achieved with Vihtavuori N540. 90 gr - 2380 f/s for 500 gr.
95 gr - 2580 f/s for 400 gr. See recent posts on this topic.

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My 458 Lott has been started as well and it will have a 22" barrel. Thanks for the load info.jj

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The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.

Based on the lott I used to have, 2300 even is the max I'd expect from a 22" barrel. The barrel on that gun was 21 1/2" and backbored and ported, so effectively 20" long, and 2280 was what it did with RL15 and 500 gr hornadies. The chamber had plenty of free bore, so, you're mileage may very.

I never got a chance to play with 400's, but would think 2500+ would be in the ball park. My favorite light load was a 350 speer and 76 gr RL7 for 2400 fps.

One thing I did when working up loads is I used 458 win mag max loads as a starting load. I think if you compare a 22" lott to a 24" win mag, you have ~200 fps over it, should get you in the ball park flipping through the load manuals.

Maddog,
I have duplicated thoes loads on all the 458 Lotts that I built..IMR4320 and up to 86 grs is a standard loading..Thoes loads were published in Handloader or Rifle magazine a few years ago by Sitton or one of the better known scribes....I have never been able to get thoes velocitys out of any other powder and remain within the proper pressure limits..I highly reccomend the above IMR4320 loads.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I have a question; why did you gentlemen opt for such short barrels? I know the handling thing but couldn't it be made to feel just the same with the same quickness by using weight to get the balance?
My .500 has a 23.25" barrel and while I look forward to the opportunity to use it on a hunt, I dread the muzzle blast. I have always thought 25" would be perfect, not too long, not too short and with somewhat low pressure loads the desired velocities can be reached.

Roger,
Just about all my personal guns have 26" barrels. I like that barrel lenth for offhand shooting and could never see where 4" of barrel made any difference in the bush.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Roger,
I'm with Ray on that one too. I have a .470 Capstick in the works, and it has a 26" barrel that is 0.750" muzzle diameter, and guess what twist? Yes, one in 10". 600 grainers could give a lot of whomp from the .470. Of course with 500 grainers it is about like a .458 Lott, though it will deliver the 500 grain bullet with a little faster muzzle velocity than the Lott, I presume.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Mr. Berry,

The data I have shows a 600 grain bullet at 1900 fps out of the Capstick.

Do you have more potent data than that?

Because of the low velocity from 600 grainers, I had given up plans to use them in my capstick.

500grains,
I'll bet that is the Nick Harvey load, from his book, and I think he just threw in the odd load without doing any extensive testing. He did do a lot with the 500 grain bullets, however.

My .470 Capstick is still under construction, so I don't have any first hand data to share. I am thinking 2150 to 2250 fps should be possible in 22" to 26". Maybe a 24" would do about 2200 fps. I don't recall where, but I think I saw loads like that published somewhere.

The powders I am guessing might do that are in the IMR 3031, 4320, or 4064 range, or maybe Reloder 7. I hope to find out soon. I would welcome anyone else's experience.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Mr. Berry,

Yes, it is from the Harvey book.

His 500 grain data is just a duplicate of the A-Square manual data but going one grain lighter on the low end. I think he may have gotten the 400 grain and 600 grain data from a 1991 Handloader article about the 470 capstick. I would have to double check that.

If you develop 600 grain loads, let me know. I am hesitant to burn up my few 600 grain bullets in a development project because they are so hard to find.

500grains,
I surely will. Maybe RL-15 will be the answer, does pretty good with the 500 grainers.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Is RL15 a good powder for the 458 Lott? It is all I use in my 375HH and it would be nice if I could use one powder for both rifles.jj

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The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.

JJ,
You will get 2350 with IMR-4320 and I have not been able to get that with any other powder...HandLoader magazine claimed the same thing in their test report.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Jim,

You should have read my notes I sent you! I think RL 15 is outstanding in the lott. I used Finn Aagard and Ray Ordirica's 458 win mag RL15 loads as a starting point, and worked up. If you compare published lott and win mag data, the lott takes 8-10% more powder then the win mag, and thats exactly how mine responded.

The max loads shown with the win mag and RL15 were 80-81 gr w/ a 500 gr hornady, I started at 80 gr and worked up to 88 gr, but found 87 gr gave the best accuracy and most consistant velocity.

Paul I printed and filed your notes in my Newly made "Lott" file. I forgot all about that data! I put it away so when I started loading for it I could use it as a referrence. This post reminded me of that, thanks!jj

Jim,

Start with the speer 350 RL 7 loads first, you'll swear your shooting your 375. As far as the 500's, some form or recoil abatement is recomended.

I almost bailed on the 500, but have been e-mailing John, and will have him continue on it. I do need to scrape up another action to have him make me another lott though.

Maddog,

I suspect most all who have posted above have had more experience with the Lott than I, but, I would like to comment on something VERY IMPORTANT that I have not noted above.

Like other cartridges, case capacity is a determining factor in working up loads. As you know, specs. for the Lott are a case of 2.8" and an overall cartridge length of 3.6". You did not mention the action your rifle is being build on, or magazine length.

If your magazine will comfortably handle a 3.6" cartridge, you're home free. But, if not, you will likely be trimming the cases below 2.8", especially if you wish to crimp a bullet at the top end of a connelure.

If you do so, you will be reducing case capacity. Using published data with reduced case capacity will often push pressure well above the danger level.

*If* you have to cut cases down a bit, I would strongly suggest you start with a few loads at least 15-20% below published loads, and then work up from there. I have had some "standard" loads present me with pressure that required all of my muscle just to open the action! Also, different bullets will present very different resistance. More than most cartridges, the Lott requires caution when working up loads.

I have not worked with 400 gr. bullets yet. With 500 gr. bullets you will find an average loss of velocity of 30-45 fps (with 22" barrel), depending upon powder and bullet.

I must agree with Norbert. I have used just about every powder applicable for the Lott and there is no question that N540 offers the highest velocity while maintaining modest pressure (at least in my rifle, and apparently other's). This powder was made for the Lott.

Even with the 22" barrel, you should have no problem reaching 2300 fps. I see no real logic in trying for much more. Decent groups and total reliability are much more important than an extra 50 fps.

Steve

[This message has been edited by holtz (edited 06-08-2001).]

Steve:

Thanks for your post. I am on the verge of going to a Lott, and wondering whether 2300 fps and moderate pressure will be possible.

Also, there is an interesting article in the latest African Hunter magazine on the "458 Express" using a case of 3.8 inches, in an attempt to further lower the pressure.

Using the relatively short Speer AGS 500 gr. bullets and IMR 4320 or N540, as Norbert suggests, may avoid any problems with the Lott.

Will

Holtz; My action is a M-70 super express. Its about 4 years old and started life as a 458 win. Is this a good action for length??
Any comments from anybody is welcome.Thanks to everyone..MD

Maddog,

To change a M70 458 action to Lott you need to move the bolt stop back, remove the spacer from the magazine box, and tune the rails and feed ramp for the longer cartridge.

Maddog,

I'm not sure of the exact specification of your newer M-70, but if it's the same as other M-70 I'm familiar with, your magazine is 3.6". If this is the case you will be trimming your brass as needed to come up with an overall cartridge length not exceeding 3.58". Test with some dummies to see what max length your magazine will handle comfortably and then back off several thousands to insure 100% reliability.

With a 24" barrel at 1-14 twist, I'm using Bell brass, Fed 210 primers and for the 500 gr. GST am trimming brass to about 2.73-2.75" and using 89 gr. of N450 for 2,320 fps adjusted to muzzle at about 75 degree temp. Absolutely no indications of pressure. In fact the load seems easier on the shoulder than many loads using other powder that provide lesser velocity. Possibly N540 is a very progressive burning powder, I don't know. I would modify the load a few grs. one way or the other depending upon ambient temperatures where hunting.

The 500 gr. Swift seems to present much more resistance in the barrel and I suspect that with the above load I will reach 2,300 with perhaps 85 gr. of N540. I'll find out soon.

Steve

holtz-- not to question you, because all you guys know more on this than I. Does anybody know if the Mod 70 super express will handle a full length 458 Lott? With 500 gr bullets??? My gunsmith thinks that it will but he was honest to say that untill he gets started he won't know for sure.. Any help????

Maddog,
Yes it will, I have built half a dozen Lotts and mostly on M-70 actions.

I will also state I have loaded and chronographed the Lott with all powders and IMR-4320 will get the best velocity of any powder, and I'll take book on that!! David Miller so states as do several articles in gun magazines..I can get 2359 FPS in a 22" barrel with a 500 gr. Woodleigh and its a mild load...I can get a scary 2504 FPS with the same bullet in a 26" barrel and flat primers, but I reloaded that case with that load 4 times before trimming was required, but the recoil was "whompenstompen" so I cut back to the nice mild 2350 for regulating the iron sights, still kicked me to death...took 80 shots at one sitting to file in all 4 leaf sights, bad bad day....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,

The CZ550 may not be a Mod. 70, but with the CZ all one has to do is ream out the chamber: bingo a 458 Lott. No ejector or magazine issues; five in the magazine. You want to ream it out when I get it?

A guy from Accurate powders told me to load up the ammo first, so the jump between the bullet and rifling is minimized when getting it reamed to get the max. velocity.

Thanks for the fast reply Ray--MD

Will,
I retired from outside gunwork as my hunting business keeps me going 16 hours a day, but Dennis Olson or Jim Brockman can do you a good job. Jim has my pattern stock, for both and is turning out some really nice laminated stocks for both actions..and at a good price too.

I suspect you will have to do a little rail work to make it feed the longer round properly, sometimes yes and sometimes no, on both the CZ and the M-70..

Brockmans 208-934-5050
Olson 406-826-3790

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com