P.S. Maby I should have checked this out before??
Will
This might be of interest:
A friend of mine gave me a copy of a letter today, written in 1993 by Jack Lott,to a hunter in Tx. asking for .458 Lott loads.
These loads were developed with Lott by David Miller of David Miller Rifle Co. one of the finest custom smiths around. Lott and Miller were looking for a load that would reliably give 2300 fps with a 500 gr. bullet in a 22"barrel and would not develop pressure signs in high heat. Mr. Lott admits that you can get over 2400 fps, but states that 2300fps gives more than adequate penetration on Cape Buffalo and Elephant without sticky extraction. These loads used reformed Winchester brass, 500 gr. Hornady solids and soft points. It is interesting to note that Mr. Lott talks about his reasons for developing the .458 LOtt. After being smashed up by a wounded buffalo in Mozambique that he had hit twice with a .458 Win and then several times with a .375 by his pro, and a few more hits with the .458 for a total of 8
bullets, he decided something with more penetration was needed. The powder used is
IMR 4320 with a Federal #215 mag primer. 22" bbl.
83.0 gr. = 2202 fps.
84.0 = 2308
85.0 = 2330
86.0 = 2355
Case length o/a = 2.800
O/all loaded length = 3.600
Bullets were full crimped
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The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.
I never got a chance to play with 400's, but would think 2500+ would be in the ball park. My favorite light load was a 350 speer and 76 gr RL7 for 2400 fps.
One thing I did when working up loads is I used 458 win mag max loads as a starting load. I think if you compare a 22" lott to a 24" win mag, you have ~200 fps over it, should get you in the ball park flipping through the load manuals.
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Ray Atkinson
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Ray Atkinson
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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB
The data I have shows a 600 grain bullet at 1900 fps out of the Capstick.
Do you have more potent data than that?
Because of the low velocity from 600 grainers, I had given up plans to use them in my capstick.
My .470 Capstick is still under construction, so I don't have any first hand data to share. I am thinking 2150 to 2250 fps should be possible in 22" to 26". Maybe a 24" would do about 2200 fps. I don't recall where, but I think I saw loads like that published somewhere.
The powders I am guessing might do that are in the IMR 3031, 4320, or 4064 range, or maybe Reloder 7. I hope to find out soon. I would welcome anyone else's experience.
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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB
Yes, it is from the Harvey book.
His 500 grain data is just a duplicate of the A-Square manual data but going one grain lighter on the low end. I think he may have gotten the 400 grain and 600 grain data from a 1991 Handloader article about the 470 capstick. I would have to double check that.
If you develop 600 grain loads, let me know. I am hesitant to burn up my few 600 grain bullets in a development project because they are so hard to find.
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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB
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The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.
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Ray Atkinson
You should have read my notes I sent you! I think RL 15 is outstanding in the lott. I used Finn Aagard and Ray Ordirica's 458 win mag RL15 loads as a starting point, and worked up. If you compare published lott and win mag data, the lott takes 8-10% more powder then the win mag, and thats exactly how mine responded.
The max loads shown with the win mag and RL15 were 80-81 gr w/ a 500 gr hornady, I started at 80 gr and worked up to 88 gr, but found 87 gr gave the best accuracy and most consistant velocity.
Start with the speer 350 RL 7 loads first, you'll swear your shooting your 375. As far as the 500's, some form or recoil abatement is recomended.
I almost bailed on the 500, but have been e-mailing John, and will have him continue on it. I do need to scrape up another action to have him make me another lott though.
I suspect most all who have posted above have had more experience with the Lott than I, but, I would like to comment on something VERY IMPORTANT that I have not noted above.
Like other cartridges, case capacity is a determining factor in working up loads. As you know, specs. for the Lott are a case of 2.8" and an overall cartridge length of 3.6". You did not mention the action your rifle is being build on, or magazine length.
If your magazine will comfortably handle a 3.6" cartridge, you're home free. But, if not, you will likely be trimming the cases below 2.8", especially if you wish to crimp a bullet at the top end of a connelure.
If you do so, you will be reducing case capacity. Using published data with reduced case capacity will often push pressure well above the danger level.
*If* you have to cut cases down a bit, I would strongly suggest you start with a few loads at least 15-20% below published loads, and then work up from there. I have had some "standard" loads present me with pressure that required all of my muscle just to open the action! Also, different bullets will present very different resistance. More than most cartridges, the Lott requires caution when working up loads.
I have not worked with 400 gr. bullets yet. With 500 gr. bullets you will find an average loss of velocity of 30-45 fps (with 22" barrel), depending upon powder and bullet.
I must agree with Norbert. I have used just about every powder applicable for the Lott and there is no question that N540 offers the highest velocity while maintaining modest pressure (at least in my rifle, and apparently other's). This powder was made for the Lott.
Even with the 22" barrel, you should have no problem reaching 2300 fps. I see no real logic in trying for much more. Decent groups and total reliability are much more important than an extra 50 fps.
Steve
[This message has been edited by holtz (edited 06-08-2001).]
Thanks for your post. I am on the verge of going to a Lott, and wondering whether 2300 fps and moderate pressure will be possible.
Also, there is an interesting article in the latest African Hunter magazine on the "458 Express" using a case of 3.8 inches, in an attempt to further lower the pressure.
Using the relatively short Speer AGS 500 gr. bullets and IMR 4320 or N540, as Norbert suggests, may avoid any problems with the Lott.
Will
To change a M70 458 action to Lott you need to move the bolt stop back, remove the spacer from the magazine box, and tune the rails and feed ramp for the longer cartridge.
I'm not sure of the exact specification of your newer M-70, but if it's the same as other M-70 I'm familiar with, your magazine is 3.6". If this is the case you will be trimming your brass as needed to come up with an overall cartridge length not exceeding 3.58". Test with some dummies to see what max length your magazine will handle comfortably and then back off several thousands to insure 100% reliability.
With a 24" barrel at 1-14 twist, I'm using Bell brass, Fed 210 primers and for the 500 gr. GST am trimming brass to about 2.73-2.75" and using 89 gr. of N450 for 2,320 fps adjusted to muzzle at about 75 degree temp. Absolutely no indications of pressure. In fact the load seems easier on the shoulder than many loads using other powder that provide lesser velocity. Possibly N540 is a very progressive burning powder, I don't know. I would modify the load a few grs. one way or the other depending upon ambient temperatures where hunting.
The 500 gr. Swift seems to present much more resistance in the barrel and I suspect that with the above load I will reach 2,300 with perhaps 85 gr. of N540. I'll find out soon.
Steve
I will also state I have loaded and chronographed the Lott with all powders and IMR-4320 will get the best velocity of any powder, and I'll take book on that!! David Miller so states as do several articles in gun magazines..I can get 2359 FPS in a 22" barrel with a 500 gr. Woodleigh and its a mild load...I can get a scary 2504 FPS with the same bullet in a 26" barrel and flat primers, but I reloaded that case with that load 4 times before trimming was required, but the recoil was "whompenstompen" so I cut back to the nice mild 2350 for regulating the iron sights, still kicked me to death...took 80 shots at one sitting to file in all 4 leaf sights, bad bad day....
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Ray Atkinson
The CZ550 may not be a Mod. 70, but with the CZ all one has to do is ream out the chamber: bingo a 458 Lott. No ejector or magazine issues; five in the magazine. You want to ream it out when I get it?
A guy from Accurate powders told me to load up the ammo first, so the jump between the bullet and rifling is minimized when getting it reamed to get the max. velocity.
I suspect you will have to do a little rail work to make it feed the longer round properly, sometimes yes and sometimes no, on both the CZ and the M-70..
Brockmans 208-934-5050
Olson 406-826-3790
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Ray Atkinson