I’m going forward with my new bolt action big bore.

Have been down the 458 lott , 416 rem & rigby routes and of course have three .375s… so I’m looking for something a little more exotic.

This will be a top-notch bolt gun i.e., rust blued, case colored, and good wood.

I’m Starting with a square-bridge, magnum mauser action.

The barrel will have 1/4 rib, bbl banded sight and swivel.

May go the Golmatic/PRECHTL route with all integral…

Or may even consider an octagon with integral accessories… haven’t made up my mind yet.

So with those specs in mind, I THINK I want a 500 Jeffery, but am a little leery of building a 10.5lb gun that kicks like you know what.

The other option is a 404 Jeffery, which would be a full pound lighter with significantly less recoil.

In a nutshell, the 404 sounds more practical – BUT this is not really what one would call a “practical†rifle… so if you could go “all out†on one top-shelf bolt gun, which caliber would it be?

new_guy

I would go for a 416 Rigby or 404 Jeffery

First, a 416 Rigby on the magnum action and then a 404 on standard action

Cheers
/JOHAN

Thanks Johan, you just lost your voting rights.

new_guy

psssst, how about a 45/70 or 45 blaser

Cheers
/JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:
new_guy

psssst, how about a 45/70 or 45 blaser

Cheers
/JOHAN

THAT'S IT, NO MORE!!! YOOOUUUURRREEEE OUT!

If you choose .500 Jeff, be sure of which reamer spec your gunmaker is using. Heym .500 Jeff rifles will not shoot Kynoch 500 Jeff ammo due to being made from different specifications. If you reload, it's not that big of a deal, but something to be aware of.

Personally I would go with the .500 Jeff or a .505 Gibbs (if Herr Prechtl will build an action with a .750" bolt body to accomodate the big .640" rim on the .505). That is definitely exotic. With removable scope mounts, you could use the rifle for both DG and PG. Your PG loads could be a lighter bullet, a lighter powder charge, or even cast lead bullets in order to recoil less.

Recoil is more mental than physical. If you build up to it and learn to concentrate intensely, recoil will not bother you too much.

The .404 Jeff is of course much easier to shoot, but those rifles generally bring a lower price in the resale market, if that is any consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
The .404 Jeff is of course much easier to shoot, but those rifles generally bring a lower price in the resale market, if that is any consideration.

That is a consideration, and good advice... I'm not married to any of them!

If resale is an issue then either the 416 Remington or 375 H&H will have the most appeal in a broader market.

Here at the home of the Gun Geeks we like stuff no one else heard of and won't buy for a reasonble price. Being a Gun Geek, I second 500grains (Lord of the Gun Geeks) for the 505 Gibbs. Classic, unusual and a challenge to master for most.

The reason .505 and .500 jeff seem to bring more in the resale market is it is just so darned hard to get a good one built as there are just a handful of really good gunsmiths who do it right. On the other hand, it's easier to find a nice used .375 or .404, or even have one put together, so there is not as much "hard to fine one" premium.

In addition to Gottfried Prechtl, you may also want to consider Karl Heinz Ritterbusch, Reimer Johannsen and Ryan Breeding for this project. They can all build a very fine rifle which will make men in your family proud for generations.

505 Gibbs.....only choice. It is the classiest of them all and along with the 475 Nitro No 2 is the best looking of them all.

The 500 Jeffery is the sort of cheap option because of the action availability and because it goes on the M98 you can more or less make an original. 500 Jeffery might be the go if you were having a twin made in 404.

Mike

tiggertate

I reckon the 416 Remington resale value would be very poor on this type of rifle.

Mike

I'll bow to your judgement on that as I don't play in that market. BooHoo for me!

500 Jeffery!

That too is my next project gun...

...Might research the original Jeffery rifles of which I believe less than thirty were built in this caliber (by Jeffery)...Would be cool to make a modern version off of that original rifle's specs.

...Will be a bit of a nostalgic piece and have really excelllent resale potential.

Jeff

Hi new Guy!

I am not yet granted to post pictures by the superiors!. Give me your e-mail by pm and i`ll send some pictures to you!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
505 Gibbs.....only choice. It is the classiest of them all and along with the 475 Nitro No 2 is the best looking of them all.

The 500 Jeffery is the sort of cheap option because of the action availability and because it goes on the M98 you can more or less make an original. 500 Jeffery might be the go if you were having a twin made in 404.

Mike

That is just the set up I commissioned last year. A 500 Jeffery, 404 Jeffery, and a 9.3x62 all from 1935 Orberndorf contract actions. Built and stocked by Sterling Davenport. All modeled after an original 500 Jeffery rifle. The first installment is the 500 and should be here soon. Then the 404 next year and the 9.3 soon after. I hope to be able to take them to Mozambique in 07 an a 26 day, full bag safari.

new guy,
500 jeffery or you may want to consider the 450 Rigby.
Fred

I doubt if any large bore cartridge will hold its value or appeal better than the .404 Jeffery. Other cartridges are favored, endeared, even worshiped, but none get feverishly drooled over quite like the .404 does.

http://www.470mbogo.com

that or either of the 550s.

the 500 jeffe is far too hard to get to feed right for the energy

jeffe
-who has a 500 jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
The 500 Jeffery is the sort of cheap option because of the action availability and because it goes on the M98 you can more or less make an original. 500 Jeffery might be the go if you were having a twin made in 404.

Mike

I know it has been done numerous times, but the truth is that neither .500 or .404 Jeffery are ideal in a standard M98. Can be done, yes, a good solution, no. None are wasted on the magnum mauser. New_guy, you have to be honest with your own recoil level, that is what decides what cartridge to go for.In my opinion, there are only four cartridges to choose from - .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, .500 Jeffery or the .505 Gibbs. .450 Rigby is a good one too, but no classsic ig that is important. If carried a lot, remember a .404 or .416 can be made lighter than a .500 or .505 - but the big .50's are better stoppers. What do you need?
For value, pride and joy, bigger is always better.

.505 gibbs for sure it's the coolest of the big bores IMHO......I don't have one yet

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
The 500 Jeffery is the sort of cheap option because of the action availability and because it goes on the M98 you can more or less make an original. 500 Jeffery might be the go if you were having a twin made in 404.

Mike

I know it has been done numerous times, but the truth is that neither .500 or .404 Jeffery are ideal in a standard M98. Can be done, yes, a good solution, no. None are wasted on the magnum mauser. New_guy, you have to be honest with your own recoil level, that is what decides what cartridge to go for.In my opinion, there are only four cartridges to choose from - .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, .500 Jeffery or the .505 Gibbs. .450 Rigby is a good one too, but no classsic ig that is important. If carried a lot, remember a .404 or .416 can be made lighter than a .500 or .505 - but the big .50's are better stoppers. What do you need?
For value, pride and joy, bigger is always better.

All good points... the fact is that I don't NEED any of them, but that's not really the logic that drives these questions we gun nuts ponder.

Recoil in the 500's (Jeff or Gibbs) would no doubt be stout, but they can obviously be loaded down as 500 says and 90% of shooting could be done with slow cast bullets. Of course the same is true for the 404.

Now if you consider what it costs to raise (feed) on of these things, then the 404 wins hands down. 404 brass is 1.50/ea and either of the 500s come in at about 4.00/ea. Bullets, powder and primers all cost the same.

Thanks for the input, I seem to be as confused as before... BUT these are good problems to have.

new_guy

For the sort of rifle you are talking about will it matter if 100 cases costs $400 or $10?

However, if brass cost/conveniene/recoil etc is a consideration then I think the 416 Rigby gets the vote over the 404 everytime.

If Alf comes on this thread or perhaps someone else will correct me if I am wrong......but the 416 Rigby was an expensive high grade rifle I days of old and the 404 was not. The 404 was more the working rifle.

But the rifle you are talking about is at the top end and 404 does not fit the theme. In addition, as things stand at the moment the 416 Rigby is also more practical than the 404.

Actually if you look at many of the custom projects at different times on this forum the 404 is quite popular but the reason is the action requirement. I suspect the majority of people who want a real top end rifle will not want a CZ as the basis. So a 416 Rigby for the top end rifle is more exclusive than the 404.

In some ways the 450 Rigby is a good suggestion if you are going to use a modern Magnum Mauser since the 450 Rigby is a modern calibre and of course offers all the practical aspects that go with the 45 bore. As well the 450 Rigby is a descendent of the old 416 Rigby just as the modern magnum mauser is a modern descendent of the original magnum mausers.

Mike

I like the 404 Jefferys for myself, but the 500 Jefferys is a great round as is the 505 Gibbs..

Resale on the 500 and 505 is very high as they are darn hard to find, and finding one that will feed and extract is even harder, damn few USA gunsmith have that knowledge as they just don't have that much call for them...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

If Alf comes on this thread or perhaps someone else will correct me if I am wrong......but the 416 Rigby was an expensive high grade rifle I days of old and the 404 was not. The 404 was more the working rifle.

Mike

Afraid You are a bit lost here, Mike. The deal was, Jeffery let go of his .404 for all to use, but the .416 Rigby was a propretary cartridge, only chambered by Rigby. Actually, before WW2 they only made 178 rifles in this chambering.
They made them in "Best Quality", but also as working rifles. Take a look at Harry Selby's .416, nothing fancy about that rifle.

I've already been the custom 416 rigby route.

For no reason in particular, I just don't want to do another 416.

As for ammo costs, no, $400/100 rounds of brass isn't completely out of alignment with the cost of the overall gun... BUT it is excessive.

What comes into play with the last comment is how many safe firings can one get from the brass...any idea?
If it's 4-5 firings, then the brass issue is moot.

Ray???

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
What comes into play with the last comment is how many safe firings can one get from the brass...any idea?
If it's 4-5 firings, then the brass issue is moot.

Ray???

JW

With annealing say after the 3rd firing, i'd think that they would easily go 6-reloads (with reasonable loads.)

Note also that if seized shortly after fiering, cases will last longer than if stored a long time after fiering before seizing.