I hope to make it to Africa in 2-3 years. I want to get a heavy rifle now to get used to shooting it. I want to hunt buffalo and tuskless elephant.

I could get a lot of use from a 375H&H, and they are very versatile with bullet weights from 200 to 350 grains.

The 416 Rem is reviewed as much better on the heavy game, especially elephant.

Which should I go with and why?

Buy 2 M70 Winchesters. One in 375HH and the other in 458WM. Reem the 458 to a Lott and you'll have both a versatile PG/DG rifle and a heavy stopper!

How much recoil are you accustomed to? The .375H&H is a great place to jump off into larger calibers. If you've been shooting a 7 lb .340 Weatherby, no problem on the .416. But if you're moving up from a .30-06, then the .375 is where to start. You'll likely want to have a .375 and something larger. I've shot quite a few whitetails with my H&H; it works quite well. Plus it's fun to shoot. I got a .458, and I discovered a whole nuther world. I've still yet to shoot a full house 500 grain load. If you're not accustomed to more recoil, definitely start with the .375. You don't want to develop a flinch or get scared of your gun.

LWD



LWD

I've shot my 45/70 Marlin guide gun with some stout loads, but my normal rifle is a 308.

Maybe the 375 makes the most sense.

Get the .416Rem. It will do anything the .375H&H will, only better. I own both (and larger) but the .375 is no longer an african rifle for me.

Quickdraw, where are you located? Maybe someone here is in your area and would let you try a 375 or 416.

Off the bench, my 416 with full house loads is punishing without my PAST Recoil Shield. With it, no problem at all. Off hand, no problem at all with or without the sissy pad.

When shooting at game I never feel recoil and don't think a thing about it, just when working up loads at the bench.

I don't own a 416 Rem. I do own a 416 Rigby and 375H&H. In my opinion, the 416 will do everything the 375 will, only better, especially on the big stuff.

Recoil is a significant step up, but if you are going to get into big bore rifles and hunting Africa, you might as well begin the process of becoming recoil tolerant through practice, practice, practice. Once you learn to handle the 416, I doubt you'll pick up the 375 very often unless you take your wife or kid on safari and they want to shoot something like a Buff cow or other DG. At least, that's been my experience.

quote:

375H&H will, only better. I own both (and larger) but the .375 is no longer an african rifle for me.

I know many hunters (not PH's) who use a 375 for their dangerous game hunting exclusively. I'm probably in the market for a 416 at some point, but up till now I've used a 375 exclusively for buffalo and elephant cows and it worked just fine (on three different hunts).

If you do not foresee more than this one trip to Africa for big game I'd go for a 375 which is far more versatile for a US hunter in my opinion than a 416. If you were not going to be guided by a suitably armed PH I'd want something bigger than a 375.

I have never hunted Africa, but am going in August, with a Model 70 375 HH. I considered the 416 but thought that the flatter trajectory of the 375 would be better for plains game. That, combined with having the power for buffalo, was a better fit for me.
I have reloaded and shot this gun a lot. It is no 30-06 recoil wise, but quite tolerable to me.

IMHO, you'll be best served by a .375 H&H Mag. as your first DG rifle. It's really the undisputed king of all African rifle calibers. And for very good reasons.

It can be had in a relatively light weight rifle, and does not kick so hard that it's intimidating to neophytes. My wife can shoot one very well, and she is on the petite side.

Yet, it's very effective when shots are well chosen and well placed.

The heavier calibers, including the .416 Rem. Mag., are better, IMHO, for the big stuff, but they also require much more work to master.

I own a New Haven version in 375, its a very sweet shooting rifle. IMO nicer to shoot than a Marlin 45-70 with hot loads. I have also shot the same model in 416, it was a significant step up a step up in recoil, if thats a concern.

These are thick stocked heavy rifles, my 375 weighs almost 10.5 lbs with 1.5x5 Leupy. Thats why it is so easy to shoot, but you pay for it in weight. A 416 is probably a better overall balanced round for this model. I have often thought about trading mine for a 416 or having it rebored, but I would have to find the perfect 375 first.

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
I have never hunted Africa, but am going in August, with a Model 70 375 HH. I considered the 416 but thought that the flatter trajectory of the 375 would be better for plains game. That, combined with having the power for buffalo, was a better fit for me.
I have reloaded and shot this gun a lot. It is no 30-06 recoil wise, but quite tolerable to me.

Flatter trajectory of the 375? Example:

A Barnes 300gr TSX in .375 has a BC of .357 at 2500fps. With a 100 yard zero, the bullet strikes -5.33" at 200 yards, -19" at 300 yards.

A Barnes 400gr TSX in .416 has a BC of .392 at 2400fps. With a 100 yard zero, the bullet strikes -5.81" at 200 yards, -20" at 300 yards.

So the 375 is 1/2" flatter at 200 yards and 1" flatter at 300 yards, but provides a SD of .305 to the 416's SD of .330.

With the 416 you get roughly the same trajectory, better sectional density, larger frontal diameter, and 1000ft/lbs additional energy (4163 vs. 5115). The only downside is the additional recoil. If you can learn to handle the recoil, which really only takes practice for most folks, the 416 just outshines the 375 in every category.

Take a 416 Rem and load it with 370 North Forks a about 2525 FPS (no issues in my Mod 70). Shoots lights out accuracy. About as fast out the barrel as a 375 300 gr with the same SD. Great bullet for about anything shot in the shoulder/behind the shoulder.
Less recoil than the 400 grainers.

.375 300 grain at 2500fps and .416 400 grain at 2400fps are factory loads, and the 416Rigby is notoriously underloaded.

If someone wants flat and hard hitting, with some diameter,
then they might consider a .416" 350 grain TTSX at 2800 fps, and a BC of .444.
6100 ftlbs. at muzzle. Available as handload, loaded to normal rifle pressures like 30-06 and 338WM.
Recoil is better than the 400 grain handloaded to 2600fps (60ftlb vs. 67 ftlb).
The only problem is that Winchester doesn't offer a 416Rigby.

It would probably work well for elk, too, but I'd want a lighter rifle for mountain work.

Using the 0" sight-in at 100 yards for comparison, it is -3.6" low at 200 yards and only 13.2" at 300yards.
energy at 100 yards is 5200 ftlb, 200 yards is 4500 ftlb., and 300 yards is 3900ftlb.
What's not to like?
I prefer a 2" sight-in at 100yards for a more practical trajectory, still positive at 200 yards and -7" at 300yards.

Thanks again for all of tr responses.

I think the points about weight of the Model 70 making more sense for a 416 is a great observation. Also, I like the thougt of shooting lighter bullets and working my way up.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
.375 300 grain at 2500fps and .416 400 grain at 2400fps are factory loads, and the 416Rigby is notoriously underloaded.

If someone wants flat and hard hitting, with some diameter,
then they might consider a .416" 350 grain TTSX at 2800 fps, and a BC of .444.
6100 ftlbs. at muzzle. Available as handload, loaded to normal rifle pressures like 30-06 and 338WM.
Recoil is better than the 400 grain handloaded to 2600fps (60ftlb vs. 67 ftlb).
The only problem is that Winchester doesn't offer a 416Rigby.

It would probably work well for elk, too, but I'd want a lighter rifle for mountain work.

Using the 0" sight-in at 100 yards for comparison, it is -3.6" low at 200 yards and only 13.2" at 300yards.
energy at 100 yards is 5200 ftlb, 200 yards is 4500 ftlb., and 300 yards is 3900ftlb.
What's not to like?
I prefer a 2" sight-in at 100yards for a more practical trajectory, still positive at 200 yards and -7" at 300yards.

I was trying to give him examples of factory loads and the 416 Rem in particular. I favor the Rigby myself, for many of the reasons you have posted about in the past, such as being able to load it to it's real potential. But since the fellows posting here seem to be weighing recoil heavily, I went with the factory loads. In all honesty, other than recoil, what advantage does a 375 have over a 416. None that I can demonstrate or think of!

I asked the same questions a few years back. Went with the 416 and never looked back.

I load 350 gr A Frames at 2600 fps with excellent results. On two buff, one staggered about 20 yds and went down. The other was a "bang flop". I was a lights out performer on plains game and took a few Wildebeest out to 275 yds.

For practice I use 350 gr Speer for economy.

I planned on starting with a nice 375H&H first. A lightweight 458WM fell in my lap. The recoil isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Where are you at? Maybe another AR Member is local for you. You could arrange to meet at the range and try before you buy something. Most guys around here are pretty happy to show off and share their toys.

.375 H&H. I've killed scores of game with it, from elephant on down to Livingstone's Suni and never had a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
.375 H&H. I've killed scores of game with it, from elephant on down to Livingstone's Suni and never had a problem.

You've been blessed. But some PHs would consider changing your 'your handle', Use Enough Gun.

If you believe a "minimum" and "adequate" cartridge for Ele and Buff are all you'll ever need, then the .375 is your baby. If on the other hand you would like a little something more than "minimum and adequate" when something goes wrong - which it will if you hunt DG long enough - then you'll pass on the .375 altogether.

A rifleman will have no problem with a .416, yet it will give you a definitive edge over the .375, with an increase in recoil you'll never notice in the field. The occasional shooter might go for the .375, but serious DG hunters and real riflemen understand the advantage a .416 brings.

BTW, I killed my first bull Ele with my .375H&H and immediately started searching for a .416Rem. I have since moved up to a .458Lott and will use a .458B&M on my next Ele this August. I still consider the .416Rem the best for those who can't do the .458s.

Flatter trajectory of the 375? Example:

A Barnes 300gr TSX in .375 has a BC of .357 at 2500fps. With a 100 yard zero, the bullet strikes -5.33" at 200 yards, -19" at 300 yards.

A Barnes 400gr TSX in .416 has a BC of .392 at 2400fps. With a 100 yard zero, the bullet strikes -5.81" at 200 yards, -20" at 300 yards.

So the 375 is 1/2" flatter at 200 yards and 1" flatter at 300 yards, but provides a SD of .305 to the 416's SD of .330.

With the 416 you get roughly the same trajectory, better sectional density, larger frontal diameter, and 1000ft/lbs additional energy (4163 vs. 5115). The only downside is the additional recoil. If you can learn to handle the recoil, which really only takes practice for most folks, the 416 just outshines the 375 in every category.

Your example is skewed.

This is not true and I have owned both the .375 H&H magnum, the .416 Remington magnum and the .458 Winchester magnum. I have found the .375 H&H magnum to shoot 4 inches flatter than the .416 Remington magnum at 200 and 300 yards. This test was done with 300 grain (.375 H&H magnum) and 400 grain (.416 Remington magnum)loads. The .375 is also easier to hit smaller game at long range as the recoil is much easier to handle and this is a major factor (for me) in accuracy. Anyone who believes a large bore rifle is the cats pajamas for an all-around caliber has been shell shocked. Karl Stumpfe has previously stated that people that use .375's usually bring their trophy home with no help. People that use .416 and larger calibers usually require the PH to help. Shot placement is everything. I do not believe the .416 is better at everything than the .375, nor do I believe it is better than the .458 as a stopper. I have experimented so extensively with both calibers that I now believe that a .375 H&H magnum or .375 Weatherby is the best all-around caliber and paired with a close range DG rifle like a .470 NE is the best combination of rifles. The .416 is not as flat shooting as the .375 H&H magnum at all and it is not the stopper that the .458 and larger calibers are. I think you may need further testing to confirm your statements as my testing proves much differently than that of yours.

Thanks,

jfm

quote:

This is not true and I have owned both the .375 H&H magnum, the .416 Remington magnum and the .458 Winchester magnum. I have found the .375 H&H magnum to shoot 4 inches flatter than the .416 Remington magnum at 200 and 300 yards. This test was done with 300 grain (.375 H&H magnum) and 400 grain (.416 Remington magnum)loads.

Your "4 inches" doesn't mean anything unless you cite the BC's for the bullets that you were comparing.

Personally, I'm out of this comparison because I cheat. I use a 416Rigby and handload 350 gn bullets to 2800fps. That means flatter, with fatter diameter, and buffalo penetrating. Feels good, too, but its about on the edge of what I would call 'comfortable, all-around'. I don't like muzzle-brakes and I'm not ready to call 450Rigby/460Weatherby a better 'all-around'.

JFM, I respectfully disagree with your post.

You simply must compare apples to apples by comparing the same make and model bullets and their accompanying BC's at their specific velocities in order to make a valid statement. My personal experience with the 375 and 416 holds similar with the data I posted.

I posted that data directly from the Barnes #4 reloading manual, taking the exact BC of the bullets listed and the corresponding long range ballistic chart for the given BC's and velocities. There is no skewing involved! Take a look at any manufacturers' data, compare the BC's of the specific bullets, at the specific velocities, and you will get similar results.

Another example, this time from the Swift Bullets website: Swift A-Frame 1) 300gr., .375 has a Sectional Density of .305 and BC of .325. 2) The 400gr., .416 has a Sectional Density of .330 and BC of .367. This will give you very similar results to the Barnes TSX example I posted earlier. Again, nothing skewed. Apples to apples!! The same make and model bullet has a higher BC and SD in the 416 over the same make and model bullet in the 375.

Now if you mix bullets of different makes and or models, you are very likely to find a 300gr .375 bullet that has a higher or equal BC than some of the 400gr 416s. In that case, you will get results more along the lines of your example, but that is truly skewed data because you are not comparing bullets of the same design. Apples to oranges in that case!! Sorry.

One hears a lot of things concerning people's opinions of how a particular caliber or rifle shoots, often without objective data that can be reproduced. A good example is the Weatherby factory claims of velocity. I'm a Weatherby fan, but have yet to see a WBY factory load shot over a chrony that lives up to the claimed velocity. I prefer to dig into the numbers and use comparisons that can be proven. Your statement is full of opinion at worst, and lacking all the pertinent data at best. Not trying to insult, simply stating that you don't give the velocities of the two bullets in your example, nor the BC's, nor even the make and model of the bullets. Without all the data, it is purely speculation as we don't know what exactly is being compared.

I know Karl Stumpfe is a fine PH, very knowledgable, and has a stellar reputation, but I own a 375H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 WM, and 500NE. I've not had any problems whatsoever bringing home my trophies while using any of those weapons. I'm sure that if you question Mr. Stumpfe, he will tell you that some of his clients that bring the larger weapons on Safari actually have practiced with them enough to be proficient with them. The bad apples always spoil the lot you know!!

I simply don't find the 416's recoil to be an issue, but I have to admit that I practice a lot with big bore weapons. To someone who shoots a 270 Win extensively and the 375 H&H occasionally, I'm sure the 375 seems like a real beast. Shoot the 500NE enough to be proficient with it and the 416 becomes very easy to handle. It's a matter of practice and perspective.

Jeez...Both work just fine.

I always carried and will carry a 375 H&H with me in Africa and it has served me well as a PG / DG rifle. My primary DG rifles have been 416s-475s with the 375 serving as back-up. As a PG/DG back up the 375 is a great round.

I use 270 grain TSXs,in my 375, and at 2700 fps+ it works just fine. If I were hunting Elephant, it would be with my 404 and a 458 as back-up, other than that a 375 works just fine.....

The 416s are great...375's as well. I would rather have a 375 and 458 than one 416....but the 404 Jeffery is just better than all of them

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:
Jeez...Both work just fine.

I always carried and will carry a 375 H&H with me in Africa and it has served me well as a PG / DG rifle. My primary DG rifles have been 416s-475s with the 375 serving as back-up. As a PG/DG back up the 375 is a great round.

I use 270 grain TSXs,in my 375, and at 2700 fps+ it works just fine. If I were hunting Elephant, it would be with my 404 and a 458 as back-up, other than that a 375 works just fine.....

The 416s are great...375's as well. I would rather have a 375 and 458 than one 416....but the 404 Jeffery is just better than all of them

Hard to argue that the 375 and 458 are not adequate. However, I prefer a 500NE and 416 Rigby shooting 350gr TSX's at 2800fps. Now there is a flat shooting big bore mated with a true stopper!!

quote:

Hard to argue that the 375 and 458 are not adequate. However, I prefer a 500NE and 416 Rigby shooting 350gr TSX's at 2800fps. Now there is a flat shooting big bore mated with a true stopper!! Cool

We think alike. As soon as my 500AcRel is ready I'll be with you.

416 Tanzan & Todd Williams,
First of all, thank you for putting up with my demeanor from my last post. I re-read it and I sound like a smart-ass. Thank you for your gentlemanly replies.
I do agree with you that ballistic coefficient plays a major role in trajectory. I used to use 400 grain A-frames and 400 grain TSX bullets in the .416 Remington magnum and
300 grain A-Frames and 300 grain TSX bullets in the .375 H&H. I personally do not know what the BC of any were but I shot the .416 rounds at @ 2400 FPS and the .375 H&H rounds @ 2600 + FPS. I found the .375 H&H to be capable of plains ranges but not the .416 RM as it appeared the .416 RM dropped much too low for my comfort level. After 200 yards the .416 was too low and the .375 was right in there with room to spare. However, this is my testing. Perhaps not so scientific, yet very extensive, as I really was trying to decide on which caliber to keep. I decided on the .375 for the all-arounder and the .470 NE for up close and personal. I've always had problems with recoil on the .416 RM and find it too extensive for accurate shooting at ranges of 300 yards or so. I've never had this problem with the .375 H&H. By the way, both rifles were the same. Winchester Model 70's. I do, however, use 270 grain Barnes TSX bullets @ 2800 FPS for most of my long range shooting now. Different times, different situations. Maybe I'm not giving the .416 a fair shake, but then again, there's that recoil thing again. I am not saying anything negative regarding the .416 RM. I owned one and think of it as too much recoil for me. Maybe stock fit, I don't know. It's funny though, as the .470 NE Krieghoff seems like a pussycat comparitively. Perhaps velocity is a factor. Anyway, thanks for your replies as they are much appreciated.

jfm

I believe the jump from shooting mostly a .308 to shooting regularly a .375 H&H is a big step, recoil-wise. Big enough for the first step toward mastering the big bores.

I suggest you buy the .375 and practice a lot with it. Take it to Africa and use it on your first hunt there. IF, and I repeat, IF you decide you want more gun for your second African hunt you can always sell your .375 and make the next step up in recoil to the .416 or something else.

Despite all the "hard-shouldered" posters, getting used to recoil is something best done step-by-step, not in a "show your manliness" hasty approach. A real rifleman uses his brain as much as his brawn.

JFM,

Hey Guys,
Since Quickdraw is used to loading for a 45/70 would not the 458 Win Mag be the next logical step for him?
He can reload with cheap components to keep the price down and can load down to the 45/70 level with ease.
That and the fact that 458s are so cheap on Gunbroker.
My thoughts would be to buy a 458 now and train with it. He can get his money back for it or keep it as a fun gun.

Cheers, John

All good advice. My .02 cents from owning a 416 Rem is that it really had some attention getting recoil using a 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps. So if you go the 416 route, as others have suggested, you might drop down to the 350 gr bullet weight.

My solution was to re barrel my 416 Rem to a 404 Jeffery and man am I glad I did. Not the same sharp recoil as the 416, just a good hard push. I've got some 380 gr North Fork ammo on the way and I think it will be just right.

Thanks for all of the advice! I think I'm going to go with a 375 unless I see a smoking deal on 416.

I agree with a lot of what has been said. For one thing, years ago, when I first shot a .375 after years of shooting calibres up to .300 Win. Mag., I thought it kicked. It doesn't, but that is a very personal experience and evaluation. If it kicks to you, it kicks.

Now how to deal with it. My approach has been a gradual step up until I find it comfortable and then to buy somehting bigger that I'm not comfortable with. You risk developing a flinch, but with discipline, I like that approach. A few rounds off the bench with a .458 Lott will make any .416 seem like a pussy cat.

As mentioned stock fit, most importantly, and weight, are important. Don't go too light at first, but light may well be an option later -- after all you carry a rifle a lot more than you shoot it.

I personally love the .416's as a medium bore that will do it all. I've never hunted elephant, but it's great on buffalo and will certainly handle any plains game. And while I've generally thought I was comfortable out to 200 yards, but I've recently found that the .416 will reach out a bit longer on plains game if necessary.

Get used to a rifle and use it for everything. Your familiarity with the rifle and the cartridge will more than make up for any shortcomings in your choice. Just my personal opinion.

quote:

Get used to a rifle and use it for everything. Your familiarity with the rifle and the cartridge will more than make up for any shortcomings in your choice. Just my personal opinion.

Amen.

If you get to hunt areas with open places, then the 250TTSX .375" with .424BC and the 350TTSX .416" with .444BC will be your daily friends. Both can take buffalo, though you might want to know where a 375 shoots with 300TSX if on buffalo spoor. The 416 350 is already good to go, period.

My suggestion is going to be contrary here perhaps but just an opinion.
Forget the cartridge and find a rifle that you like and one that is very comfortable. If it is available in the caliber you decide on great. Personally I like the .416 Rigby in the RSM but I also enjoy my CZ Rigby. Find the rifle that you like. Shoot it a bunch with light loads. Don't shoot heavy loads until the rifle is very familiar and you can handle it well. Then start increasing the loads until you are ready for full-house and heavy bullets. Once you enjoy the rifle the caliber can be worked with and either will do what you want. By the time you are ready for Major Dangerous Game you will have a double anyway.
Frank

Below is the data provided by Barnes for their factory Vor-tex Safaris ammo, which is representative of what's available commercially. You'll see that the 416 Rem Mag is a ~1000 ft# step-up from the 375 H&H with a heavier bullet (i.e., more momentum & more penetration) and very little loss of trajectory. If you're a reloader, you'll get more from the 375 H&H, but likewise for the 416 Rem Mag and the other cartridges. Note that the 458 Lott offers only ~200 ft# more energy at the muzzle than the 416 Rem Mag.

One must conclude, from a commercially available ammo perspective, that the 416 Rem Mag is superior to the 375 H&H - that is, granted that you can shoot both equally well.

Caliber/Bullet/Bullet size/muzzle vel/muzzle energy/trajectory 100 yd zero, 200 yds, 300 yds, 400 yds drop in inches

375 H&H TSX 300g 2540 4299 0.0 -5.1 -18.3 -41.5
375 H&H Solid 300g 2540 4299 0.0 -5.9 -22.2 -53.2

416 Rem Mag TSX 400g 2420/5203 0.0 -5.7 -20.0 -44.9
416 Rem Mag Solid 400g 2420/5203 0.0 -6.4 -23.4 -54.9

416 Rigby TSX 400g 2400 5117 0.0 -5.8 -20.4 -45.8
416 Rigby Solid 400g 2400 5117 0.0 -6.6 -23.9 -56.0

458 Win Mag TSX 450g 2240 5015 4097 0.0 -7.0 -24.5 -55.1
458 Win Mag Solid 450g 2240 5015 3784 0.0 -7.8 -27.9 -65.0

458 Lott TSX 500g 2210 5424 0.0 -7.0 -24.5 -54.4
458 Lott Solid 500g 2210 5424 0.0 -7.7 -27.4 -62.7

470 Nitro TSX 500g 2150 5133 0.0 -8.4 -28.4 -62.8
470 Nitro Solid 500g 2150 5133 0.0 -9.5 -33.5 -77.6

Regards, AIU

However, this covers over a curiosity in cartridge development.

The Rigby in a modern bolt rifle is basically a handloader's round. This is because of an antiquated tradition to set 2400fps with 400 grains as the factory/SAAMI load level despite the cavernous case capacity. (The same might have been said about the 470 case size, except that those are used in doubles and require regulation around a fixed velocity.)

Anyone who loads a Rigby down to 2400fps would have been better off with a 416Rem. The Rem saves 25grains ( ! ) of powder. So does the 416Ruger.

For comparitive pressures, comparing apples with apples, the Rigby should be loaded to
2550-2650fps with 400 grain bullets (.330 sec.den., compared to only .305sd in 375 with 300 grain.)

416Rigby 400TSX 2600fps 6003 ft# traj 0.0 -4.6 -16.4 -37

and to 2735-2835fps with 350 grain bullets ( .289 sec.den., yes, more than enough for buffalo in monolithic)

calibre -- bullet - - speed - - enrg.ft# traj 100 200 - 300 - 400
416Rigby 350TTSX 2785fps 6026 ft# traj 0.0 -3.7 -13.4 -30.1.

This last set of numbers puts the Rigby in a unique class of rifle, flat and over 6000 foot pounds muzzle energy. That is its natural, conservative niche. For "hot" loads one can load up to the published loads (minus 4 grains powder) of its ballistic sister, the 416Weatherby.
These demand premium bullets with guaranteed penetration because of the high velocities and energies. They are a different class of rifle.

Tanzan, I agree - the 416 Rigby is way, way underloaded for factory ammo - crazy but true, but apparently in deference to "express" rifles. If I owned a Rigby, it'd be a strong bolt action, and I'd load it like you do.

I have a 416 RUM, which is close to the Rigby and 416 Weatherby, and it will achieve 2600 fps+ with 400 gr. TSX bullets and 2800 fps+ with the 350 gr. TTSX. That's as much blast and recoil as I want to deal with; besides, it has more than enough KO power for any living animal.

One can safely load the 416 Rem Mag to 2500 fps with 400 gr. bullets, and probably to 2700 fps with 350 gr. bullets. Both loads would be more than adequate for all African game.

On a recent trip to Africa, my gun was lost temporarily in Joberg. I was offered a camp 375 H&H or a 416 Rem Mag with factory rounds - I chose the 416 Rem Mag and killed a Cape buffalo with one shot. Then my gun finally showed up, a 375 H&H Ackley Improved (375 Weatherby), which is a perfect kill-all African gun, accepts 375 H&H ammo, and works well in North America, New Zealand, or where ever you hunt with it.

Regards, AIU

Good posts by every one. According to the above ballistics does any one have the actual CUP pressures they are operating at for comparison. I believe the 416 Rem. Mag. operates at much higher pressure than the 375H&H & 416 Rigby? Also the taper of the cases has some advantages especially in a DG situation over the 416 Rem. Mag.. Lastly has any one used the Barnes 350 grain TSX in the 375 H&H with a S.D. of .356 at 2411 ft./sec. and found it inadequate? Granted it probably requires a different barrel rate of twist for optimum performance and accuracy. I love the 375H&H and if i needed a more specialized rifle I would opt for a DR secondly a 458 of some sort.