Guys I have a double square bridge magnum Mauser action and want to build a new rifle.
I already have a 375,416,450 and a 450 no2.I was considering a 450 rigby but I have to many 45 calibres already so I have decided to go for one of the 50 cal.just don't know which one. Any ideas from you guys would help in making up my mind. I am leaning towards the 505

Naybe consider our 585HE, get cases direct from Bertram, any gun
that will hold 505 Gibbs will do these.You can
check out more info in thread down a ways in this section.Ed

For 50 cal magnum length action, I would go with 500 Mbogo or 510 Gibbs. Standard length, 500 AR.

This comes up quite often, and I always opine that the .500 A-Square would be (and in fact was ) my preferred Big Fifty.

It's not a "classic" but it's easy for a gunsmith to build a rifle of this caliber that works. Also, ammo components are abundantly available and ammo is easy to put together.

In other words, the .500 A2 is not only powerful, but practical.

If I had to have a "classic" I would go with the .505 Gibbs.

For a classic on a magnum action the gibbs if the bolt is greater than .700"

Send to webbe for work either way

If you've got the bolt diameter and magazine length to do the .505, then I think that is the obvious choice. If not, then I would have to second the recommendation of the .500 A2. I've owned all three, and the A2 is by far the most practical in terms of feeding and brass availability.

A nice, traditional, low-pressure Gibbs would get my nod, although I do love the 500 A2.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
A nice, traditional, low-pressure Gibbs .

which never existed -- a MODERATE pressure gibbs, about 5k CUP less than a jeffery, is the standard .. low pressure -- under 44K, is a 500/577 ... otherwise, that's bullocks (hammered by a mod that doesn't suffer sod lightly)

Well, if it is a true magnum mauser, I assume that it can handle LONG cartridges.

So with an extra long action one should choose one of the LONG 500's: the 500A2 (belted) or 500Mbogo (beltless).

The Jeffrey has a rebated rim, which is a minor complication but not my cup of tea.
The 505 Gibbs has an extra wide body and rim which will probably push the action to its absolute limits. With more restricted bullet selection in .505", I would probably do a 510 Gibbs if going that route. However, since I believe in cartridge efficiency I would only recommend building a Gibbsy if someone were planning on hunting with loads in the 8500-9000 ftlb. range. When looking at efficiency, I find that the 500AccRelNyati in a standard length action is all the bullet that I plan to hunt with, up to 7000 ftlbs. If you like things brisk, just keep the rifle weight down. Carry it all day.


So with a magnum mauser long action in hand, I'd go with 500A2 or 500Mbogo, but I'd plan on 8000 ftlb loadings.
For nostalgia and powder guzzling, the 505 Gibbs at traditional power levels (6000-6500ftlbs). It's the biggest and baddest looking cartridge, if looks could kill.

kawabunga to the peanut gallery, buffalo bob.

Gibbs...

.500 a2- just ask yourself how many horror stories have you heard about it? None? Gibbs over Jeffery if you want excitement then obviously a .600 ok .-Rob

I thought I was confused before I bought my problem to AR i am even more now. Thanks for all the advise guys. I have even more to think of now

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
For a classic on a magnum action the gibbs if the bolt is greater than .700"

If you are interested in a classic caliber, this consideration should be the deciding factor. If you have a standard diameter bolt, then the Jeffery is the best choice. The Gibbs has an oversized case head which does not do well with the standard diameter bolt.

The Gibbs is a big impressive cartridge, but it was designed in an era where excessive pressure caused by high ambiant temperature (i.e. in Africa or India) could cause a pressure spike. That consideration is virtually a thing of the past, and the same ballistics can be achieved with modern powders and a much smaller case.

I have rifles in both calibers and they both have their advantages, but if I were to be limited to only one, I would go with the Jeffery. It fits well into a Magnum action, does not require a special bolt diameter, is a more efficient case and uses more readily available components.

For years I used a wildcat .505 based on the shortened .460 Weatherby case. With a 570 grain .510" Kynoch bullet swaged down to .505" and 90 grains of 4064 I was able to duplicate .500 Nitro Express performance at acceptable pressures. I used it on three African hunts with very satisfying results. The Jeffery case is considerably larger and the Gibbs case much larger, so you would simply be burning more powder to get the same performance.

Ed,
wow, the table of brass ade my day (my wife thought my pile of 505 Gibbs was a lot but after I she saw yours...) thanks much

505 Gibbs.
I had the pleasure of carrying Tommy Orford's (Camchacha) .505 for a little while during an elephant hunt in 2009. It belonged to my PH and was well worn but a classic rifle used for elephant control in Hwange. I have thought quite a bit about putting one together myself.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Naybe consider our 585HE, get cases direct from Bertram, any gun
that will hold 505 Gibbs will do these.You can
check out more info in thread down a ways in this section.Ed

I second the motion Ed!

As the proud owner of a 500 Jeffery, I would recommend the 505 Gibbs if your bolt face diameter is suitable if you want tradition and power. The 500 A2 is a great round and much easier to make feed than the 500 Jeffery. Mine works beautifully but it took a year and three trips to the gunsmith to make it that way after I got it.

Thanks DR-- In fact, if a reloading supply dealer
in SA would stock them, in the next case run, I'd have
Bruce send them 300 rounds on my dime and they take
money as they sell them and order more.

I'd do the same for a reloading supply dealer in Canada.
As I can't ship cases from here to those places.
But we and CH4D can send dies and Manson can send reamers.ED

If I had a action that nice--go with the 505 Gibbs--have someone like Lon paul, or Reto Bueler have there way with it and you will have a first class rifle. I agree a A-square is a good way to go--but you can do one of those on a CZ 550, and a 500 jeffery might as well be put into a standard action with the proper bottom metal and mag box -- a true square bridge mag mauser--needs to be a 505!

Ed

What, no one recommended a 585 Nyati? We must be doing something right here.
-Rob

If you want a Classic ,especially on a Magnum Mauser [ideally with original Mauser safety]i would want a 505 Gibbs ! i would forget about 500 Jeffery ,if not 505, then 500 A Square ,which once you have one, you will like ! and never want to be without one

I own and use a 500 Jeffery built on a CZ Action by Evousa.It is one you can view if you google "Dr John and the 500 Jeffery".It shoots 570 grain Barnes solids,Woodleigh 570 grain solids and soft points at 2290 fps and I use it for dangerous game work in West Africa,Elephant,Forest Buffalo and the like.It has never let me down and the brass ,bullets and dies are readily available.If you intend to take it to Africa,I would advise that you Build a 500 Jeffery.Tony Sanchez Arino the last of the Old time Elephant Hunters Alive in his classic book recommends this as the best caliber for specialized Elephant Hunting,and I have found it a real killer.I own and shoot a Westley Richards .470 NE Double rifle as well as 2 Custom .416 Rigby Rifles and I researched carefully before I choose to have a .500 Jeffery built out of Obeche Laminate stock.I hunt without a PH to back me up and of the 4 Elephant Guns I own,that 500 Jeffery has never let me down.It is a real killer that will feed well reload easily and give you a shorter stroke and quicker reloading time if you ever get into a tight corner.......I will choose the 500 Jeffery.Read John Taylors African Rifles and cartridges where he talks about both the Gibbs and the Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
For nostalgia and powder guzzling, the 505 Gibbs at traditional power levels (6000-6500ftlbs). It's the biggest and baddest looking cartridge, if looks could kill.

Looks and perfromance! What more could you want.
It does the job if you place the shot. Here are a couple of buff I took in Arnhemland in July with my 505 Gibbs, using 600gn Wooleighs at 2270fps.
1 The first shot is a typical encounter, he was passed up.



2 The second one is a cull bull which had a funny curled horn, he was fairly short in length too. He tried to get up and have a go at me when I came around the front so I put one into his head to finish him off.



3 The third is an old bull I shot quartering on from about 60 yards. The bullet entered on the point of the shoulder and was dug out of the elbow on the far side.



4 The fourth photo shows how well it mushed his heart and lungs. The recovered bullet sits on top of the chest. He only went 30 yards, and was stone dead when I got to him.

338--
Congratulations on nice hunts. And thank you for the great pictures. I would have enjoyed being at the barbies.

My comments on 'looks' were in the context that the 505 capacity is underused, downloaded to other great cartridges.

The traditional loadings of the Gibbs are great hunting loads. The point is that the same power can be generated with cases that are only 70% of the capacity of the great Gibbs.

If one is a handloader, one can increase the power levels to 7000, 8000, even 9000 ftlbs. The Gibbs is absolutely massive. So it has the looks of a 9000 ftlb cartridge, but it is typically run at 6000-6500, sometimes 7000. A 600 grain bullet at 2270 is about 6860 ftlbs. What this leaves unsaid is that a .510" with 6000-7000 ftlbs muzzle energy will take anything that's ever been on the planet with us. Kaboom. On the other hand, something like a 500 A2 or Mbogo can be loaded up to 8000 ftlbs and have even more killing power, though the rounds will look small next to big daddy Gibbs.

I sometimes joked that there's not much that can't be solved with a 505 in one's hands. But when I went to build a 500 calibre for myself, I weighed the options and I ended up going with the 500AccRel, despite not having a Hemingway short story about it. (That is a compliment to the Gibbs!)

quote:

Originally posted by babaode:
I own and use a 500 Jeffery built on a CZ Action by Evousa.It is one you can view if you google "Dr John and the 500 Jeffery".It shoots 570 grain Barnes solids,Woodleigh 570 grain solids and soft points at 2290 fps and I use it for dangerous game work in West Africa,Elephant,Forest Buffalo and the like.It has never let me down and the brass ,bullets and dies are readily available.If you intend to take it to Africa,I would advise that you Build a 500 Jeffery.Tony Sanchez Arino the last of the Old time Elephant Hunters Alive in his classic book recommends this as the best caliber for specialized Elephant Hunting,and I have found it a real killer.I own and shoot a Westley Richards .470 NE Double rifle as well as 2 Custom .416 Rigby Rifles and I researched carefully before I choose to have a .500 Jeffery built out of Obeche Laminate stock.I hunt without a PH to back me up and of the 4 Elephant Guns I own,that 500 Jeffery has never let me down.It is a real killer that will feed well reload easily and give you a shorter stroke and quicker reloading time if you ever get into a tight corner.......I will choose the 500 Jeffery.Read John Taylors African Rifles and cartridges where he talks about both the Gibbs and the Jeffery.

I love my 500 Jeffery too

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Gibbs...

I can't think of much I agree with ISS on except this. Gibbs, no doubt.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
338--
Congratulations on nice hunts. And thank you for the great pictures. I would have enjoyed being at the barbies.

My comments on 'looks' were in the context that the 505 capacity is underused, downloaded to other great cartridges.

The traditional loadings of the Gibbs are great hunting loads. The point is that the same power can be generated with cases that are only 70% of the capacity of the great Gibbs.

If one is a handloader, one can increase the power levels to 7000, 8000, even 9000 ftlbs. The Gibbs is absolutely massive. So it has the looks of a 9000 ftlb cartridge, but it is typically run at 6000-6500, sometimes 7000. A 600 grain bullet at 2270 is about 6860 ftlbs. What this leaves unsaid is that a .510" with 6000-7000 ftlbs muzzle energy will take anything that's ever been on the planet with us. Kaboom. On the other hand, something like a 500 A2 or Mbogo can be loaded up to 8000 ftlbs and have even more killing power, though the rounds will look small next to big daddy Gibbs.

I sometimes joked that there's not much that can't be solved with a 505 in one's hands. But when I went to build a 500 calibre for myself, I weighed the options and I ended up going with the 500AccRel, despite not having a Hemingway short story about it. (That is a compliment to the Gibbs!)

I agree that there are a lot more efficient cartridges out there, that can do the same with less powder, and I know the Gibbs can do a lot more. I have have toyed with a few loads above what I settled on. The 525gn Woodleigh at 2500 fps is devastating on pigs, and about the same recoil as my 600gn load. I posted on this a year or two ago with pictures. However it is too fast for that bullet on big game. I recently got some Barnes 525gn bullets for the 505, and I am sure they will be awesome on big game at that speed. I may even be game enough to push them up to 2620fps. (for the full 8000ft lbs). I think the Swift A frame 570gn 505 bullet will also stand up to more speed. However I did push the 600gn load to 2380fps during my testing and I found that a little too much to handle. It would probably be OK for the occasional shot hunting, but too much for me to use in practice and competitions. I don't mind trying things, but in the end if 2200fps or there abouts does the job (which it does) then, because I believe in practicing and competing with my hunting loads, I don't really see the need to push the envelope. A reasonably mild load (pressure wise) is also good insurance for hot climates.

thanks Cal...

Coming to SCI this year (2014)? I'll bring my Enfield 550 Gibbs and you can try it out.

Rich

338

I agree with you 100% and would add that the 505 Gibbs has an advantage over the other 500's because it has the capability of extra power/velocity, should the hunter desire.

And I'm with you in not wanting hunting loads over 7000 ftlbs.

This question reminds me a little bit of the 338 that is in your moniker. I've toyed with the idea of getting my wife a 338 Ruger Compact Magnum or even a 338 Federal. Both are practical hunting rounds and can take the largest plains game, since they all shoot the same bullet. But the 338 Win Mag can be loaded down to duplicate the lesser cartridges and can still be used in full power 338 WinMag loads.
(Personally, I would have preferred that the 338 WM had the Ruger .532" case body and capacity of the 340 Weatherby. But the Win Mag really does it all and I've never needed the extra 100 fps.)

338User: Congratulations on those fine buffalo with a fine rifle! Someday I must invest in a .505 Gibbs... Hey, what kind of rifle is yours? It looks superb!

Thanks guys I am starting to lean towards the 505.once I start which will be in the new rear I will send through pics of the progress

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
338User: Congratulations on those fine buffalo with a fine rifle! Someday I must invest in a .505 Gibbs... Hey, what kind of rifle is yours? It looks superb!

Hi BenKK,
Thanks for your comments. I have had that rifle since 2008, and wouldn't part with it. My rifle is based on a Granite Mountain Arms action and was made by the late Fred Wells. I had the Leupold 2.5 x compact scope added in Smithson QD Mounts by my gunsmith (Rob Blomfield) about 3 or 4 years ago. It weighs in at 11 lbs, is well balanced, points well and sends the recoil straight back with no bad characteristics, which makes it relatively easy to shoot for such a powerful cartridge.

Cheers, mate. Sounds awesome! How do the iron sights line-up? Alright?

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
Cheers, mate. Sounds awesome! How do the iron sights line-up? Alright?

Yes, they line up perfectly. It is zeroed at 100, and about 1/2 inch high at 50 with either the scope of the open sights.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
thanks Cal...

Coming to SCI this year (2014)? I'll bring my Enfield 550 Gibbs and you can try it out.

Rich

Thanks, Rich, but I will limit my travels this winter to DSC. I've always thought there was room for expansion on the Gibbs' case with that shoulder. Just curious, what are the ballistics?
Cheers,
Cal

338 user good to see you add ed the Joe Smithson scope mounts to that fine piece

just the right compliment

Joe is developing a mount for the red dot system by trigicon

it will snap on to your existing base

will let you know when that is ready

Jimmara,

I am curious, who manufactured your action, and what round is the bottom metal currently set-up for? You can fit the 505 Gibbs in a pre-war Oberndorf magnum mauser, but it is no small task. Depending on your action size, the Jeffery might be a little easier/less expensive.

500 Jeffery is the only way forward!! once you have owned one and used its nothing else can compare

quote:

Originally posted by zhaba:
500 Jeffery is the only way forward!! once you have owned one and used its nothing else can compare

quote:

Originally posted by zhaba:
500 Jeffery is the only way forward!! once you have owned one and used its nothing else can compare

Some people never learn!
505 Gibbs; or it didn't happen LOL