The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Low recoil 375 H&H for my wife - need inputGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
I loaded my 9,3x62 with a 286 gr bullet down to 2000 fps today and, it would probably need a brake for her..recoil was substantial for the gentle sex.. Same with a 375 H&H, again it had substantial IMO..would need a brake... Seems to me a 30-06 with a 180 gr. or 200 gr. Monolithic bullet st 2400 fps like the BarnesX, with a brake would be the best bet...and I have a hand injury from a roping incident and recoil smacks my middle finger and "ouch". Let her determine what she can or cant shoot before you head out to the dark continent is best option Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I'm working a 300 gr Aframe 9.3x62 load right now; still consider 275 gr 35 Whelen Woodleigh PP load as well - better down range energy. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I still don't think you will get anywhere near your wife's suppressed 308 Win with any cartridge firing a heavy bullet. Even my 404 with 400gr cast bullets and a small charge of Red Dot giving 1400fps still has some kick with it. On the other hand my suppressed (includes an internal SS muzzle brake) high intensity 7mm WSM is a little pussy cat to shoot with recoil being cut by half and noise down to 22 Win Mag RF level. Suppression of noise goes a long way to reducing perceived recoil let alone physical recoil reduction via a built in muzzle brake as most of the suppressors we use have. Surely your wife would be permitted to shoot a buffalo with her 308 Win with back up of larger calibres. From your first post it seems she is a pretty deadly shot with her 308 Win on animals up too Zebra size and I'm sure she would produce the goods on buffalo with a suitable 30cal bullet in her suppressed 308 Win that she is familiar and comfortable with. Very difficult to overcome recoil sensitivity no matter how heavy a rifle is made and how tamed down the cartridge may be, a bellowing big bore is not going to help. | |||
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this is, at least technically, illegal for hunting dangerous game - and technical illegality can wind up with jail and fines opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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the first thing I would do is have a stock custom fit to her. could do it with an adjustable but as they do with shotguns. Most females need more drop while maintaining a high comb. A little tow out depending on her build. then Take some wood off the back of the grip if she had trouble reaching trigger with proper grip. The most dramatic change I've seen is a 5' 100lb girl go from flinching with a 9 lb 25-06 to comfortably shooting a 6.1 lb , 16 ' barrel 300 compact magnum. Quality recoil pad of course. | |||
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Well you could always say the buffalo charged unexpectedly when out looking for PG and the 308 Win was the rifle she had to hand  | |||
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Just my 2 cents, but I have pretty high regard for the 9.3 x 62.. both from experience (minimal) and reports from the field. Don't know anyone, PH's included that are fond of brakes. Magna Port....maybe. Weight is the best possible recoil reducer...but the trade off is obvious. Any hunter will agree that a shot at game (with full house loads even) yields "no recoil" A well fitted stock. slightly muzzle heavy. good recoil pad and lots of pracice with light loads would go a long way toward tolerance. Rather than punchng paper in practice, use clay birds or something else reactive. "Exploding tagets" simply takes attention away from recoil. | |||
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Duane do you like the M70 as a platform for the 9.3? | |||
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Sure...they will do the job just fine And..sorry I overlooked the post of some brake that reportedly cuts down noise too. Sounds interesing...I just don't have any calls for muzzle brakes, so not up to speed. | |||
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| Moderator |
that's when lawyers and judges start using words like "premeditated" and "perjury" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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no caliber restrictions on private land in South Africa. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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You owe it to the animal to "Use enough gun" | |||
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I don't think I can add much to what has already been suggested, except to stress some things that have already been alluded to: I've written on this theme in several of my blogs as well as some dedicated to this subject: 1) Reduction of noise level can be a major factor, both at the bench and in the field. 2) Not only shape of stock, it's fit and weight, but also its material. Fibre or composite stocks can have more flex to them. I had a .340 Wby with such a stock, and it shot like a 8.5 lb .300 Win in "felt" recoil. 3) At the bench sit up straight, DON'T slouch! 4) The best possible recoil pad, and with good shoulder protection. I'm 87 and still shoot my .458 and .375, but use a thick piece of dense foam rubber used for tree stand seats under a magnum Past shoulder pad. Or a thick, folded-up terry-cloth towel under the PAST pad. 5) Practice off-hand... get off the bench when you have your load developed and sighted-in. 6) And YES, use a brake (or whatever). I once hated them! Now I love them, at my age and severe bouts of arthritis! 7) Rifle weight ready to hunt has a significant effect on "felt" recoil... In the case of Big Bores, don't choose "light-n-handy". Just some principles that work... Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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A lot of recoil is psychological. I remember a poster who trained his Mom on a 243 (IIRC) configured the same as his 375. Had her practice over and over off of sticks with the 243. Got her set up on the Buff handed her the 375, dead Buff. Afterwards, asked her how was the recoil. She was confused by the question. When he asked how did it feel, She replied same as what I have been practicing with. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I've heard about this plastic stock "flex" for years nows....Gotta say I'm pretty skeptical....Are there any studies, tests or other proof this actually does exist? Now...I've seen those so called "tupperware" handles that you can move the fore end around ike a noodle, and have watched the fore arm warp side to side to a warm day..they don't count! P.S . I'd add to the list, one practice using hasty sling. When snugged up, you and the rifle become more lke one mass. | |||
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"skeptical" or not, but there you have it! And the stock was NOT "plastic" but composite syn, and not like a wet noodle on a hot day! With all due respect, I probably have shot "hot" loads from Big Bores more than the average shooter/hunter, and I was very surprised at the felt recoil from that rifle (.340 WBY) firing 250gr NPs at 3000 fps. It's weight ready with ammo, sling and scope was less than 9 lbs. I put at least 1000 rounds through it. When it came time to shoot the bull moose, recoil wasn't even a memory. Yes, a lot of that was because I was shooting other "big bore" of magnum force, but this one was even pleasant to shoot. Shape of stock and fit was part of it, but not all of it! Bob www.bigbpres.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Now Bob let’s be honest, the reason you don’t mind brakes now, besides recoil reduction, is because you don’t have any hearing left after all those years of shooting big bores. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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Suggest you look up the definition of "plastic".... defined as a wide variety of organic and semi organic materials...etc etc. So "composite snythetic", in the real world is....PLASTIC !! Not calling your kids ugly,. but "plastic"is THE correct term...Lets get past that. Your obversation is NOT scientific..It's just between the ears. All I was suggesting .... Is yours (and others) obsevation based on any outright proof. And..let' s clear the air, I purposely discounted "tupperwear" stocks...maybe you overlooked that part? AR is a darn good format to seperate the bullshit from the buckwheat..Let's keep that goal in mind. | |||
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| one of us |
In slow-motion videos one can see composite frames on handguns flex. I haven't seen slow motions videos of composite stocks on long guns. It would be interesting to see such. | |||
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Thanks for that...Yes,,would be interesting...BUT the handgun video could seem tip the scales in favor of rifle stock flex. | |||
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Ha! Quite true my friend! Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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Get a rifle made that fits her. It won't kick. Put a recoil reducer in the stock if it still kicks. Muzzle brake is a last resort. | |||
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But we're seeing more of them all the time on factory rifles - some can be screwed off, but some are permanent fixtures - even on rifles with less recoil than big bores or even "normal" recoil like .308 Winchesters. One came on my lightweight .35 Whelen single-shot. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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I still hate muzzle brakes. Every PH I ever met hates them too. I used to share Duane's view about synthetic stocks, but now, nearly every one of my working rifles sports a synthetic stock. I've come around on that issue. Understand Duane's disagreement. I used to love inletting stocks. | |||
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The OP's wife shoots a 308 Win with a suppressor so the OP obviously has gone through the process of obtaining one or more suppressors. The suppressors we use have built in muzzle brakes reducing recoil by half. I'm sure suppressors are available or could be made for the 9.3 or 375 if the OP has to have a 'legal' cartridge for his wife to use on buffalo. I would never use or hunt with anyone using an exposed muzzle brake, they are the biggest bitch of a thing hanging on the end of a sporting rifle barrel. | |||
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My .458 is Mag-Na-Ported, you'd never know that by sight unless pointed out to you. And I had a brake put on my 9.3 x 62. It's the same diameter as the muzzle end of the barrel. It adds a couple inches in OL, but only 2 ozs in weight. The Mag-Na-Ports reduce physical recoil by 15% while helping to keep the muzzle down under recoil. 20% recoil reduction is claimed for the one on my Tikka T3 Lite. I don't know the exact reduction, but I know they work. What I hunt and where there's not another hunter within a couple of kilometers at least. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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The concept of magna port makes sense...However one must be careful about asking them to magna port a light weigbht barrel. They have dimensional guidelines....So...it's a bit contrary to seek recoil reduction, but then have to make a heavy rifle Happened to me on a 416 build...client was a little disappointed! | |||
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If weight is the issue just let someone else pack the rifle? most likely shooting off sticks? As I stated before, fit is paramount to felt recoil though. Pitch, drop, tow out and cast off when correct can make a world of difference. | |||
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Omega 46M Suppressor for the win! It will take the pressure of a 460 Weatherby or 338 Lapua Mag class cartridge. It will reduce the recoil significantly. It's a very versatile suppressor and handles everything from 9mm pistol all the way up to 458 caliber rifles. Like the others have said, you can reduce the loads a bit and tailor them to her needs. | |||
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| one of us |
Muzzle brakes are your best bet, get a PH that isn't a whinner, tellhim to stick his fingers in his ears!! Its your hunt and the proverbial PH that turned down a hunt does not exist..the green always wins with them and if not they go broke pronto!!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Well, the thread is not dead! here is the plan: 1) Ordered a Howa 1500 LA from Brownells - $389 2) Ditching the 30-06 barrel and putting a 35 Whelen barrel with a 1:12 twist and throat 0.067 longer than spec (to match my daughter's 35 Whelen. Remington Varmint profile, 24", thread, 36M (and I have a 46M, BTW I have 3x36Ms) 3) Woox Wildman stock with a Credo 2-10x36 (from my 6.5 Grendel AR) 4) 275 gr Woodleigh at 2,505 fps for buffalo (private land RSA); 225 gr TSX at 2,625 fps for moose (booked with Shoemakers for 2025 for wife) "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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Sounds like a good plan. Does the 36M suppressor incorporate a muzzle brake, inside the suppressor itself, and are they fitted partially back over the barrel or just hang off the end of the muzzle? Can't see these sort of details on the SilencerCo website. | |||
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I agree. This really is the main issue. And if the animal is potentially dangerous, enough gun is a duty owed to others in the group who have to deal with a mess if the animal is wounded. If the person is not able to use an adequate firearm for the task, best left alone. My opinion only, and I don't like to be the guy who says that, but there it is. | |||
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Under the category of "for what it's worth", I worked with my wife to shoot a 375 H&H on cape buffalo. Muzzle brake was part of this, and not a terrible idea since she would likely shoot the buffalo only a couple of times. The rest of the time, headphones were just part of the drill. And I used reduced loads with 235 grain Speer and SR4759, which I loaded to about 1650 FPS. This was her practice ammo and the recoil was quite, quite manageable. She enjoyed shooting with this combo, we worked on getting her on the sticks and getting a stable shot off quickly. And from the bench, not unpleasant at all. With earmuffs, of course! She gained confidence and familiarity this way. When the time came to shoot in Africa, she used a pretty full load with 300 grain A-Frames. That part would not apply to your wife, sounds like. But the chance to enjoyably shoot and gain confidence, might. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Low recoil 375 H&H for my wife - need input
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