My new 600 JDJ Ruger No.1 - is "BIGGER" really better?

Hello All,

I thought to share with you my latest "fun-gun" addition to my Dangerous Game Rifle collection. I first found this cute little rifle for sale on Auction Arms starting a few months ago. After several bidding attempts were made that didn't meet reserve, and after several subsequent re-listings by the seller, the seller and I finally came to terms, and this little cutie came to live with me here in Wisconsin.

You may ask; "why" did I want this? Well, when I first saw the Auction Arms advertisement for this rifle, I immediately fell in love with the "look" of it. The strange contradictions of its features is truly remarkable. On one hand you have the Sleek & Elegant Styling and Finish of the rifle, offset by the Harsh Monolithic Additions attached to each end - that being the Huge Muzzle Brake at the front end, and the Mechanical Shock Absorber System at the back end. Once you start, you just can't stop looking at it. Its like watching a Beautiful, Graceful Ballerina performing the Swan Lake ballet, while wearing a Football Helmet, and a pair of Russian Combat Boots. Those unorthodox features, and knowing I could kill anything from Jurassic Park, made me want to own it.








This 600 is one of JD Jones' creations from about 15 years ago. JD wanted to put the power of a 600 Nitro Express, into aa affordable Custom Ruger No.1 Tropical. Although the 600JDJ caliber is actually a 577/600 wildcat cartridge, (577 NE opened to 600) its case capacity is exactly the same as a standard 600 NE, but with the head dimension being reduced by .035" and the case length being slightly increased with a slightly smaller rim dia. So, why not then just chamber the Ruger in 600NE? That extra .035" barrel wall thickness and the smaller rim dia., adds a lot of strength to the finished rifle.



I inspected the rifle carefully when I received it. It was a Ruger Tropical from the year 2000, built by SSK Industries in 2001. It was only the 4th 600 JDJ rifle back then, with less than 10 being built to date. Although the rifle was listed in the ad as "test-fired" only, upon inspection, the lack of even a trace of powder residue in any of the muzzle brake crevices, leads me to believe it was actually "unfired". However, it didn't remain so for very long.

My first order of business was to get dies, brass and bullets on order. Bullets from Hawk were available, but with a 4 week lead time. They are on order, and waiting. Dies were in stock from CH4D and they have arrived. I found some A-Square 577NE brass, and it has also arrived.

Although custom lead bullet molds are available in the needed .620 dia., there was a long lead time of 2 - 6 weeks depending on the source. So instead of waiting, I purchased a used brass 58 cal mold on ebay. This was a 505g hollow base mold. I opened up the cavity from .575 dia. to .620 dia. with my lathe. This project went well because the cavity in this bullet mold is very big. Its easy to use a small boring bar and also see inside the cavity as you're cutting. I removed the hollow base plug to increase bullet weight, and I enlarged each of the bullet's 3 bands to .624 dia. When finished, the mold cast a flat base 630g bullet in .622 dia. This would be perfect for fire-forming the cases, and developing a "fun load" for plinking, if you can say "plinking and 650g bullet" in the same sentence. Proper bullet weight for this 600 caliber is 900g.




I had obtained a few sample bullets from Hawk which I also loaded. They are shown below along side a standard .308 Winchester cartridge for comparison. This rifle weighs-in at just a tad under 9-1/2 pounds. Quite a bit light for a 600 Nitro which should weigh over 15 pounds. I added a 1.75-5X scope which brought the weight up to 10 pounds 4 ounces. With a cartridge in the chamber, it weighed just over 10-1/2 pounds. I sure hope the recoil reducing features make up for the missing 5 pounds. The scope I added has a very long eye relief - a real must on a heavily recoiling rifle. I put together some test loads using 4759 and my 630g cast lead bullets lubed with liquid alox, and headed for the range.





The trip to the range resulted in 25 nicely fire-formed cases ready for a second go-around, and a mild headache. Pressures seemed light with the F215 primers showing rounded edges and cases being easily extracted. However, I must admit that I underestimated my starting load for fire-forming. What I thought would be a mild load, actually chronographed at 2000 fps with the little 630g bullet. This equates to just over 5,500 ft/lbs of muzzle energy and about 10% more powerful than a factory .458 Winchester Magnum. I'm sure glad this little cutie has "ugly" at both ends.

With an intended "Full-House" load of 1900 fps with a 900g bullet, I'm hoping everything goes equally well. If any of the other nine 600 JDJ owners rifle are out there, I'd like to hear form them.

I hope you have lots of fun with it!!!

You're gonna love it especially as a person that can machine & load like you do. I think it's one of the funnest rounds out there & yes---it's a killer

PM & e-mail sent

There is nothing better than big rifles and big women.
Good luck with 900 grains at 1900 fps. I sold an original Jeffery .600 single due to recoil.
Congratulations on your new toy.
Cal

Thanks for the interesting report from a highly advanced riflecrank.
Besides adding strength by allowing beefier chamber wall thickness,
reducing the head and rim diameters also makes it easier to eject empties past the tang safety button, eh?
Looks like not much modification was required to the safety button?
Might be very difficult with the standard 600 NE case.
They say 577 NE is the biggest one should go on a Ruger No. 1, but J. D. Jones figured a way around that.

"This 600 is one of JD Jones' creations from about 15 years ago. JD wanted to put the power of a 600 Nitro Express, into an affordable Custom Ruger No.1 Tropical. Although the 600JDJ caliber is actually a 577/600 wildcat cartridge, (577 NE opened to 600) its case capacity is exactly the same as a standard 600 NE, but with the head dimension being reduced by .035" and the case length being slightly increased with a slightly smaller rim dia. So, why not then just chamber the Ruger in 600NE? That extra .035" barrel wall thickness and the smaller rim dia., adds a lot of strength to the finished rifle."

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
There is nothing better than big rifles and big women.
Good luck with 900 grains at 1900 fps. I sold an original Jeffery .600 single due to recoil.
Congratulations on your new toy.
Cal

Cal---you're a man after my own heart

Our 585HE works great, and is perfect in a Number 1,

It is one of the worlds greatest guns. With our cases or any other modern

cases, it can hold same high preassures as the biggest, strongest,

bolt actions.Ed

Just picked up my Ruger No1 in 585 Hubel ! will let you know how it goes ! had it restocked as well nice wood Too !

Hello RIP,

The current safety button remains unaltered and is tipped "up" slightly. When the empty is ejected, it "bumps" the front lip of the safety and rolls off to the side. This works great and stops the empty from hitting the stock's comb.

I've decided to add a stock boot cartridge holder, not so much for quick reloading, but mostly for the added weight. The leather holder with 6 loaded cartridges adds another pound to the weight of the gun. With scope and mounts, a sling, a leather cartridge boot with 6 rounds, and one in the chamber, the total weight is slightly over 11-3/4 pounds. All that extra weight reduces the felt recoil by another 22-1/4 pounds.

Here is a "mock-up" of how it would look. It will also partially hide the hydraulic recoil reducer contraption.

Excellent idea with the cartridge carrier.
Is there no lead or mercury inside the buttstock?
At 9.5 pounds, I guess not.

26" barrel, does that include the brake, integral or screw-off?
Short and handy as a 22"-barreled bolt action.



Can you remove the buttpad and slide a mercury recoil reducer tube (or two joined together end-to-end) into the stock-mounting hole?

I would also consider giving it the "leather-covered, custom-fitted buttpad treatment" along with the lead or mercury in the butt:



I am sure you will figure out something.

Actual rifles barrel length is 22-1/2". With the muzzle-brake, its 26". I have not tried to remove the recoil arrestor assembly to look inside the stock. It has a hydraulic piston, so I assume that goes deep inside the draw-bolt hole.

Ah so. With hydraulics in the butt already, the cartridge carrier is definitely the way to go.

This has got me thinking about a a 20 Gauge From Hell 3.5" again, in a Ruger No. 1.
The rim diameter of the RMC brass capable of 28,000 psi is .750" in actuality, within SAAMI tolerance:

************************************************

CIP 600 NE 3"/SAAMI 20Gauge 3"

MAX CARTRIDGE
Rim diameter: .810"/.766"(-.018")
Rim thickness: .065"(-.010")/.060"
Base diameter: .700"/.697"(-.009")
Neck diameter: .650"/.684"(-.020")
Case length: 3.000"/3.010"(-.100")

MIN CHAMBER
Rim diameter: .820"/.767"(+.005)
Rim thickness: .066"/.0592"(+.005")
Base diameter: .701"/.6992"(+.005")
Neck diameter: .651"/.685"(+.005")
Chamber length: 3.010"/3.000"(+.005")

I included above any labeled or obviously indicated tolerances found on the drawings, minus on the brass, plus on the chamber.
************************************************

The 20 gauge base diameter above the rim is greater than with the 600 JDJ, but with same rim diameter.
Pressures would be kept lower with the 20GaFH-3.5", and still be plenty of whomp with 900-grainers.

SAAMI 20 Gauge Rifled Barrel

Bore Dia.: .609" (+ .002")
Groove Dia.: .618" (+ .002")

I could use a .620"-grooved 600 NE barrel and still be in SAAMI spec for 20 gauge.



Highjack off.

That would be cool. I'd like to see it when done.

Or our 24ga FH with 3" chamber and

able to use 577NE 3" brass as is, just

stamp it 24ga.... perfect for shotgun only..

Uses same 585" barrels as our 585 or 577NE uses.

Can use the plentiful cheap .585" minie bullets as

well as heavier jkt ones.Ed

Hello Hubel458,

My only 577 is a Dickson Double rifle in Alexander Henry 20-.577 cal. So I got the 577 covered.

That gun would be nice one to have,
I like old stuff. Got a pic.Ed

Ed,
577 NE and 24 Ga compatibility noted, thanks, but I am emotionally invested in the 20 Ga.
I never finished that "20 Guage Hellboy" project after the 12GaFH-3.85" wore me out.
It shall be done.



buckstix,
Let me know if you find a good shell carrier to add that extra pound to the 600 JDJ with ammo.
I could do the same for a Ruger No. 1 20GaHb-3.5".
Also for the shopmule NEF/H&R so chambered by hand:




The 20GaHb-3.5" also weighs just under 9.5 pounds bare, has an iron rod in the buttstock drawbolt hole, from the factory.
As shown with the slip-on recoil pad, scope and rings, it weighs 10.75 pounds.
The 2.5x32mm Sightron in Warne rings survived the 12GaFH.

I need to add a muzzle brake to this one to add about a pound and a quarter to the muzzle, for 12 pound total,
13 pounds with the ammo carrier.
That would probably be a bored-out 50BMG brake like used on the 12gaFH,
here shown also with the golfball launcher option:



I'll be looking for a .615"-grooved barrel for a Ruger No. 1,
since I can make my own .616-caliber 920-grain conicals and .619/330gr round balls, in Lyman No. 2 alloy.
Still hard to keep from casting too hot and fast, must control myself better next time ...
Sizing jacketed and monometal .620-caliber solids and softs down to .615-caliber also possible.
First step .616, second step .613, final springback to .615.
Might run across some "obsolete" 3.5-inch plastic-hulled 20 gauge slugs someday too.

Hello ubel458

Here is the story about my 20-.577 Dickson / Alex Henry double rifle that I bought last fall.

While I was searching high and low for a 577 BPE to add to my collection, I ran across a "story" from early 2001 about a rifle that had all the things that everyone wants in a fine double rifle. I call them the "Lucky Seven".

First, a very fine World renown Maker.

Second, a document from the World renown Maker that substantiates the original specifications.

Third, a Famous Owner.

Forth, a document from the World renown Maker that it was shipped directly to the Famous Owner.

Fifth, a documented history of use by the Famous Owner.

Sixth, a book written by the Famous Owner giving an account of the rifle's use.

Seventh, a picture in the book showing the Famous Owner holding the Double rifle.

The rifle I found is a John Dickson double rifle in 577 caliber.

















Per the original John Dickson ledger, it was originally built in 1868 with the following specifications:



translated



What wonderful information!

But, it is no longer a 12-bore, it is now a .577 caliber. This is unusual. However, the Barrels are marked "577EX" and "AH7186".



As I have learned, "AH" with a number, typically references Alex Henry, and the rifling in the barrels of this rifle, is Alex Henry type. A call to Dickson and McNaughton in Scotland with a request to search the Alex Henry ledger indicated that Ledger serial numbers stopped well before the AH7186 number. But, the Ledger also contained some unregistered numbers for after-market work. And there, the number 7186 was listed. It read:



translated



This 577 double rifle is in the "rare" caliber 20-.577. This was a proprietary cartridge designed by the well known Scottish firm of Alex Henry. It is a 2 3/4" 20-gauge brass shotgun cartridge that is necked down to accept a .577 bullet.



Although I was originally looking for a .577 BPE, (black powder express) this rifle is actually a true "Nitro Express" being proved for 70 grains of "rifleite" which is an early form of cordite. This is the same powder charge as the standard .577 NE. These barrels were never intended for black powder.

And the henry Ledger documents that this rifle was shipped to Captain M. McNeill.

Malcolm McNeill was born on January 30, 1866, the son of Lt-Col A.C. McNeill. In 1885, when he was only 19, he went into the British army. He served in several African campaigns and also in World War One. McNeill won several medals and awards during his Military Service.





Unfortunately, Capt. McNeill died in France on June 3, 1917 during WWI. He is buried in Mont Huon Military Cemetery, Le Treport, France.



During his Military career, McNeill was also a big game hunter. Many of his hunting trophies are displayed in a museum in his home town of Oban, Scotland.

In addition, he also authored a book about his Military life and his hunting trips in Somaliland. The book is entitled, "In Pursuit of the Mad Mullah--Service and Sport in the Somali Protectorate." (printed 1902). In the book Captain McNeill tells of being sent to Africa's Somaliland. Before going to Africa in November of 1900, he purchased the Dickson / Henry so he would have an adequate big game hunting rifle.



The front plate in the book has a photograph of the McNeill sitting with this 20-.577 cradled in his arms.

In the book we have Capt. Malcolm McNeill himself, talking directly to us, telling of his using this rifle during his adventures with it in Africa. He tells how he killed 3 man-eating Lions, 2 with this exact rifle.





When you read, his writing is just like he was talking to you and telling you his story. You can almost hear him speaking to you "out loud" in your mind.



What an adventure it must have been in 1901. State-of-the-art hunting on the backs of Camels.





In the book, McNeill tells of hearing about 4 lions that were attacking a nearby village, and his taking a few days off his Military service to pursue them. It happens that McNeill's 20-.577 was packed away on camels some hours distant, so he set-out with his 12-bore paradox double. With it he shot the first lion. It measured 8' 4" long from nose to tip of tail.

Some time later, his camels arrived bringing him the 20-.577 Dickson/Henry. With it, he went after the other 3 lions. Quoting from page 53;

"... I also had my .577 by now, and felt quite prepared to meet anything that might turn up. ..."

McNeill continued to pursue the other 3 lions and soon came upon the second. Quoting from page 57 and 58;

"... the lion was about 130 yards distant. ..." "... I immediately knelt down and fired with my .577, taking him just in front of the shoulder. On receiving the shot he pulled up at once, nearly falling as he did so, and the left barrel knocked him clean over. He managed to crawl un­der a small tree about 2 or 3 yards off and to get his head round facing me. I put in another shot for safety's sake when I got to about 80 yards from him, but he did not really require it--either of the first two would have killed him. This lion was the biggest of the three I got that day, 8 feet, 10 1 /2 inches as he lay--a big, powerfully made beast, but with no mane. ..."

McNeill then started after the last two lions. They were discovered in heavy cover. Since earlier one of natives had been bitten while pursuing the second lion, McNeill opted to start a grass fire to drive them out of the cover, rather than going in after them. Quoting from page 58 and 59;

"... After some difficulty we got it fairly alight, and after it was about two-thirds burnt, out he came. He stood at the edge of the fire about 80 yards from me, broadside on, and I at once gave him the .577 in the left shoulder. On receiving the shot he turned round and charged straight back through the fire (which was about 18 or 20 yards off), burning his whiskers and singeing himself generally, but not very badly. On getting through the flames he stood on his hind legs, pawing the air, and then fell over on his side--dead. ..."

The forth lion was a female, and McNeill's hunting ethics, dictated him not to pursue her.

So, 3 out of 4 lions in an afternoon's vacation from Duty, 2 shot with my 20-.577 Dickson/Henry. One shot at 130 yards, and the other at 80 yards.

Here is a reference to Capt. Malcolm McNeill Military Service from the London Gazette. This is a very interesting bio indeed.





Testifying to his Military Battles is this very interesting reference to Capt. Malcolm McNeill. This was a sketch that was published on October 12, 1901, in a Newspaper called the GRAPHIC. (page 485)

It shows Captain McNeill directing his forces in a Battle (detailed in his book) Note the several Martini rifles in addition to the Maxim Machine Gun. McNeill had 2 maxims under his command, a 303, and a 450 cal.

Although Capt. McNeill is shown holding a Martini rifle, I'm sure his 20-.577 was not far away.

The caption reads; "The Expedition Against The Mad Mullah: The Attack On Captain McNeill's Zariba"



I'll continue to research this rifle and p Perhaps someday I'll find some interesting information about James Robertson, the first owner who ordered it from Dickson in 1868 as a 12 bore double rifle.

And, I intend to shoot it ... a lot.

P.S.

And if all this History wasn't enough, here's another treat. This Holland & Holland Royal Grade Double Grade was presented to President Teddy Roosevelt. It is on display in the Frazier Museum in Louisville, KY.

Look who's on the list of donors. He's the 12th one down. None-other than our "Captain M. McNeill." The text is from page 28 of Teddy Roosevelt's book; "African Game Trails."

How cool is that?

You have really nice treasure there.
Beautiful and has a very interesting, special history.Ed

A virtuoso post!

"How cool is that?"

Very cool indeed.
I have been to pay homage at the Frazier Museum.
Special treasure there too.
Your Dickson 20/.577 Alex Henry Nitro Express would make for a great display there,
ranking with the "George Washington" John Phillip Beck flintlock, and the "TR" double rifle.
20 Gauge connection, and Captain Malcolm McNeill provenance ... don't know whether to dance for joy or cry ...

Nice rifles, Damn nice!

Thanks ... I love rifles with "stories". I intend to use both for hunting this year.

Ed Hubel has graciously parted with a Verney-Carron-made barrel like Hastings used in their 20ga rifled slug guns,
as well as some other 20ga goodies.
Thanks, Ed.
A Ruger No. 1 for 20ga3.5" rifled shotgun with 920-grainers and 25,000 psi loads should be about all the fun I can stand.
RL-17 is great with 209 Magnum primers, right Ed?

Yes RE17 will do just great and the RMC
brass will go to about 35K if you want .
You'll have the equivalent of 600 NE with that
pressure in that brass.

Now if you can find #1s in bunches please kindly consider
doing one in my 585. I'll even get your smith, you talked about
before, a reamer out of the new batch being set up.
Only needs a thick pad and weight in the butt
matching our heavy barrels to shoot nice.. Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Yes RE17 will do just great and the RMC
brass will go to about 35K if you want .
You'll have the equivalent of 600 NE with that
pressure in that brass.

Now if you can find #1s in bunches please kindly consider
doing one in my 585. I'll even get your smith, you talked about
before, a reamer out of the new batch being set up.
Only needs a thick pad and weight in the butt
matching our heavy barrels to shoot nice.. Ed

And I won't forget a muzzle brake, just for sighting in, of course.

Beautiful double and super history. 1900 fops with a 900 gr bullet should be lively in a Ruger no 1.-Rob

Hello Robgunbuilder,

Yes ... very true

If you need any 750 gr brass bullets let me know.-Rob

Excellent post...pictures and story. All history is interesting...some exciting...and some extraordinary.

Dutch

Hello Robgunbuilder,

What caliber are the 750g bullets?

Hey Ed,

The 20-gauge goodies arrived. FedEx is the best. Thanks!

Buckstix,

Until Rob gets back to you, I bet those are .620-caliber 750-grainers
like for his 600 Overkill, turned on his home CNC machinery.
He has it in his garage in Las Vegas, which I have seen.
What happens in Vegas does not always stay in Vegas.

I would enjoy running a QuickLOAD prediction for your start on loads with those or whatever bullet.
Do a propellant selection table? Or just check out any load you already have chronographed,
to see how close QL is to your chronograph reality at what predicted pressure, etc.?

That would be enlightening regarding loading for a 20ga3.5" done in a Ruger No. 1,
now that I have the barrel, from Verney-Carron/Hastings by way of Ed.
Ed also supplied a stockpile of Hastings plastic-hulled 20ga3.5" Hammerhead sabot loads,
410-grain projectile at 2000 fps.

QL:
20gaHb-3.5" (using Ed Hubel's trick with RL-17 and 209 primer, in RMC brass with 245.0 grain water capacity):
920-grain/.616" Tru-Bore cast slug
26" barrel
142.0 grains RL-17 (with filler) >>> 1907 fps @ 28,351 psi
150.0 grains RL-17 (with filler) >>> 2009 fps @ 33,014 psi

Buck:
Have you shot your 20-577 much? What accuracy and what velocity are you getting?
Cal

Hello Cal,

The 20-577 is next on the list for load "tuning".

My average velocity is 1615 fps (corrected to muzzle) with about a 4" group - but, the barrels are crossing. I think by backing off 2 grains, they should "uncross" and be at about 1575 fps, and the gropup should shrink to under 3". I think that's about the best I can do with iron sights, and I'm not really interested in absolute maximum laods, just want to stay fun.

Buck:
Jolly good show! This is the fun of double rifles.
Best wishes to you.
Cal

They are .620. If you need something a lil larger or smaller no
Problem.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello Cal,

The 20-577 is next on the list for load "tuning".

My average velocity is 1615 fps (corrected to muzzle) with about a 4" group - but, the barrels are crossing. I think by backing off 2 grains, they should "uncross" and be at about 1575 fps, and the gropup should shrink to under 3". I think that's about the best I can do with iron sights, and I'm not really interested in absolute maximum laods, just want to stay fun.

I am guessing it is going to take more than a 2-grain decrease in powder charge,
but either slowing the velocity or increasing the bullet weight, one or the other or both, (if that were possible to consider)
will make the rifle uncross and shoot higher at 50 yards.

Or, use of a slower powder in greater weight of charge, will also increase the recoil for same velocity and bullet weight,
and that would be a step in the right direction.
Greater recoil with same or greater barrel time will uncross the load also.
Lower peak chamber pressure with slower powders too.

The usual Ross Seyfried/Graeme Wright formula for converting Cordite charges to RL-15, or better yet, Hodgdon Varget Extreme, might work.
Seyfried formula: Cordite charge in grains X 1.19 = RL-15 charge in grains

IMR-3031 might be better than IMR-4198 too.
Grain for grain for Cordite charge weight.
And I would substitute Hodgdon Benchmark Extreme for that.

All of these with fillers of course.

Considering the slow powders IMR-4831 and H4350 with no fillers ... unlikely to be necessary, but for reference,
Jim Bell formula: Cordite charge in grains X 1.33 = IMR-4831 charge in grains.

As loaded above, it is shooting kind of like my 20ga Stoeger Uplander Coach Gun with screw-in "Paradox" rifled chokes.

Lessee, original regulation load was:

650 grain Nickel-Jacketed RNSN bullet
70.0 grains "Rifleite" (early Cordite)

Current trial load is:

650-grain PP (Woodleigh?)
66.0 grains IMR-4198

70.0 grains of Cordite X 1.19 = 83.3 grains of RL-15, per Seyfried formula.
Or,
70.0 grains of Cordite x 1.20 = 84.0 grains of Varget Extreme, per RIP formula.
Might uncross.

Now, to fine tune the formulae, how does Rifleite compare to later versions of Cordite?

Hello RIP,

Yes, very interesting recommendations.

I think I'm also going to try some 4759. I've been having very good luck with that in my 16ga rifle, as well as this 600 JDJ. And to be sure, I've been using foam baking rod as a filler in all my big bores that are loaded with less than 80% density.

buckstix,

I might have added the slower powder idea after you read above.
IMR SR-4759 is a lot faster powder, than IMR-4198, higher pressure, but I hear you on the 16ga bore rifle.
I just bought an 8-pound jug of SR-4759, and a pound of SR-4756 to try in my RBL 20ga with round ball.
I heard a rumor that both of those IMR-SR "pistol powders" were going to be discontinued after this year.

I really think a move toward RL-15 or Varget would be better for the 20/.577 AH Nitro Express.

70 grains of IMR-3031 or BENCHMARK will be significantly slower and lower pressure than 66 grains of IMR-4198.

If you go to a lighter charge of faster powder the reduced recoil will work to keep your barrels crossed even if you have greater barrel time with a slower velocity.
Heavier charge of slower powder and same or slower velocity, and lower chamber pressure, seems to be the right direction to me.

I agree with the foam backing rod, I learned that trick here recently. 1/2" or 5/8" diameter, depending on my little cartridges.
I'll stick a slice of that in any load if there is any air space.

Hello RIP,

I appreciate the recommendations. I'll be trying them. I have both Varget and RL-15 in stock to test.

I have used the foam backing rod in lots of cases recently. Especially in my double rifles. I even use it in my 8mm Lebel double rifle where I had 90% density. The powder shifting in the second case (from the first shot recoil) was kept in check and gave better accuracy and more uniform velocity.

I have used the 3/8" dia foam rod the 8mm Lebel and in several other bottle neck cartridges in the 30cal - 35cal range. I careful "squeeze" it through the neck and into the case with a "screw-in" motion, being careful not to crush it. Using a slight squeeze allows it to spring back to full dia. But, too much squeeze will crush it. Careful testing will tell you how much squeeze will work.

Hello Robgunbuilder,

Could I get some 650g bullets from you? I'd like to try some to compare with the HAWK bullets in that weight. I sent you a PM.