A lot is made by some people about recoil on big bore rifles. I was looking at 3 different cartridges from big bores last night. It struck me that they are far smaller than many shotgun shells. I almost never hear similar complaints about the shotguns.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me which has more powder, a more or less standard load for a 470 NE or a 12 ga 3 1/2 inch magnum shot shell?

What about the 500NE?

It's not how much, but what kind of powder.

Velocity too. 12ga standard 1 1/8oz loads run ~1250fps. 500gr 470 loads run ~2100fps. And thenthere is the rifling...

Also, when shooting shotguns, the shooter is often focused on a moving target, and moving himself. That motion helps mask recoil, as does the close focus on the moving target. A 458wm has just enough recoil to let you know the rifle has fired when you are shooting an elephant or cape buffalo, not so at the range!

Still, if you want to find out what a big bore on the order of a 458wm or 470 recoils like, shoot a 12ga mag slug load out of a light shotgun. I prefer the 458wm.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I was wondering if anyone could tell me which has more powder, a more or less standard load for a 470 NE or a 12 ga 3 1/2 inch magnum shot shell?

What about the 500NE?

a) A heavy load for 3.5" 12Ga factory might have about 45 grains of powder, Blue Dot or such.
Most of the shotgun recoil comes from the shot charge weight, up to 2.25 ounces (984 grains) at about 1250 fps for a factory turkey load, the heaviest.

b) 470 and 500 NE loads will be around 90 to 110 grains of powder depending on the type.
Projectile weight is 500 to 570 grains at about 2150 fps.

We beat them all with 12gaFH:

c) 15 grains of Blue Dot plus 230 grains of H50BMG,
for total powder charge of 245 grains,
with 1087-grain brass slug at 1812 fps.

Put that in your recoil calculator and smoke it in a "standard" 10-pound gun just for comparison kicks:

a) 12Ga3.5" turkey load: 65.9 ft-lbs @ 20.6 fps
b) 500 NE 3" jumbo load: 96.3 ft-lbs @ 24.6 fps
c) 12GaFH 3.85": 308.7 ft-lbs @ 44.6 fps

Newtonian Impulse of the loads would be a way to compare ejecta thrust regardless of the firearm weight, just for more kicks.

a) 6.26 lb-sec
b) 7.39 lb-sec
c) > 12.39 lb-sec, my calculator for impulse maxes out at 1000-grain bullet weight

Then there is the 2-Bore.

As for the above 12ga3.5" turkey load in a light shotgun, that is indeed rougher than a standard 500 NE:

Turkey Load:
5-pound shotgun: 131.9 ft-lbs @ 41.2 fps
10-pound shotgun: 65.9 ft-lbs @ 20.6 fps
Hey! Doubling the shotgun weight will cut in half both the recoil energy and velocity!

The Impulse of that load is the same in either light 5# gun or heavy 10# gun: 6.26 lb-sec

I actually have a 5-pound 12ga3.5" and have shot it at least one time with that turkey load.

like comparing a 1980 302 from an f150 to a 5.0 2009 racing season nascar motor.

the 12 is about 1.125 oz at 1400 fps .. or close enough to 500 gr...

the 470 is 500gr at 2150 ... about double the felt recoil

PARDNER SHOTGUNS IN 3.5" INCH CHAMBERINGS ARE WORSE THAN LOTS OF BIG BORES!

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
PARDNER SHOTGUNS IN 3.5" INCH CHAMBERINGS ARE WORSE THAN LOTS OF BIG BORES!

Yep, those 5-pounders with the 2.25-ounce 12 gauge turkey loads kick harder and faster than a 600 Nitro Express weighing 14 pounds.

I think the absolute worst I was ever kicked was shooting a 3 inch magnum slug on a bench out of a very light off brand 12 gauge pump that a friend of mine had. I remember calling him a pussy after he shot it. I changed my mind when I shot it.

Having shot a fair number of the 3.5 inch turkey loads in a pump 12 ga, I have to say that I don't think it kicked anywhere near as bad as the 500NE I used to have. On the other hand, I used to have a 12 ga, NWTF turkey gun. It was a pump Winchester. That gun with a 2.75 inch magnum kicked far worse than the 3.5 inch shells did in my old pump.

I guess the lesson here is that there is a hell of a lot more than just powder volume that causes the felt recoil.

The 12gaFH is just a shot gun, but can launch a 1085gr bullet at 1800fps thats 8000ft-lbs of ME. It equals and surpasses all the old black powder bore guns. -Rob