Hi, anyone have recommendations on what a "good weight" is for a 458 Lott or 470 Capstick both with/without scope? I'm not recoil shy but I'm also not a recoil sponge like some of you guys.



Chuck

Chuck, I have a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Lott. I installed a Limbsaver recoil pad and put a coil of lead wire in the butt stock cavity to get it over 10 pounds. For this rifle and my limited recoil tolerance, that's the minimum. Adding a scope and bringing it to 11 pounds would be even better. But a good bolt gun with a better stock design would likely be tolerable with a pound less weight. I'm sure wiser folks will chime in.

Chuck, I like a big bore rifle to have some weight.

In particular, I prefer longer, heavy profiled barrels to get the weight up front and make the rifle balance at the receiver ring.

This makes the rifle hang very well for off hand shooting and also helps dampen the recoil.

As examples, my .458 Lott weighs 11 lbs. and my .500 A-Square weighs 12 lbs., with 24 and 25 inch barrels, respectively.

Some prefer lighter rifles for ease of carrying, but I have carried these all day for many days and never had a problem.

One does have to be fit, but that is a general rule and covers a lot more than just lugging a rifle around.

Chuck,

My M-70 .470 Capstick weighs 10.75lbs. scoped, and it has a 24" barrel.

While 10.75lbs. may seem light, you carry your rifle a LOT more than you shoot it while hunting.

George

My CZ Safari Classic (which I like a lot) in 375 H&H weighs 11 lbs with scope, and mounts (10 lbs without) with a 25" barrel. Not only is it heavy, but it is muzzle heavy. I like my rifles to balance at the middle of the magazine. I'd also like a shorter (22") barrel. As you would guess recoil is not an issue with the 375. I was seriously thinking of having it rebarreled to 470 Capstick, I spoke with my gunsmith (Kevin Weaver) about it and he suggested having Clearwater rebore/rechamber it to 470 Capstick and shorten the barrel to 22". He has referred several of his clients there with uniformly good results. The advantages are my sights, barrel band, etc. stay intact. My barrel already has an extra recoil lug (installed by AHR). The gun should be lighter and the balance better (for me). The gun would weigh (I'm guessing) about 9.25 - 9.5 lbs without scope, 10 - 10.25 lbs with scope, and mounts. Do you guys think that's too light for a 470 Capstick (458 Lott should be about the same recoil).

Thanks,
Chuck

I'd be concerned about barrel wall thickness in reboring a .375 to .474.

You may have to go up to a larger diameter barrel.

As for the weight of the rifle and the length of its barrel, I would go a bit heavier and longer respectively, but as I said, that is my preference.

Each of us has to decide what he likes best in those respects, and likes and dislikes will vary from man to man.

My 458 lott weights 10.4 With scope. It seems like a comforable weight for that rifle. Recoil is 74 ft lbs shooting a 500gr bullet. It is a big push.

10 pounds or so.

Feel free to put a mercury recoil reducer in the butt stock, as this seems to take some of the bite out of the recoil.

I would rather carry a few more pounds than get the snot kicked out of meself@ I prefer about an 11 pound rifle in those big boomers.

Both the .470 and the 458 Lott are real kickers IMO and I am not fond of shooting them although I have hunted with them a good bit...but my recoil tolerances tend to lean towards the 40 calibers.

Ray is that 11 lbs with or without scope? I already have one recoil reducer in the stock. If I rebarreled it with a heavier contour barrel I probably would have to add another reducer to get the balance point where I want it which would get the rifle up to about 11 lbs without scope.

Chuck

Chuck,

My 450 Dakota which is built on a CZ 550 CZ/AHR chassis weighs 10 pounds without scope, ammo, sling, bases or rings.

It is all up w ammo, light leather sling, and light weight 3 X scope in QD rings, 11 pounds which is what I wanted.

Carrying it 20+ miles a day in a late season (120 degrees F) hunt was no fun.

I would strip down to 10 pounds for elephant. Hunt them first with iron sights and no sling or scope.

Then switch to scope and sling for buff.

11 pounds even at 500 grains 2350 fps it is easy to shoot. Great confidence builder. Increasing 100 fps you notice.

You can slim down from there.

Andy

My CZ 550 in 375 H&H measures .700 diameter at the muzzle. I believe it's the same contour as the CZ 550s in 458 Lott which explains why it is muzzle heavy. At the 22" point it should have enough wall thickness I believe? I guess I can have the gunsmith add some weight to the foreend and add another recoil reducer (CZ left plenty of room) in the rifle butt if it kicks the snot out of me lol.


Chuck

Andy, can you tell me what contour your barrel is, how long it is and the muzzle diameter? I'm still debating the reboring vs rebarreling thing. It's not the cost of the barrel but the barrel band, new sights, stock inletting etc add up. I can always rechamber to 375 Weatherby and shoot those lovely 350g Woodleigh PPs at 2550 fps if this gets too hard ...

Chuck,

It is the AHR contour which I specified some years ago (along w 1-12 twist) to Ed Plumber.

I forget what it was. But its not just muzzle diameter. Alot of the weight is in the straight (no taper) chamber area.

I will check my rifle and let you know.



Bitterroot, if you are reading this, can also let us known from AHR.

Andy

That's another option, and probably the best one, just send my rifle back to Ed and Wayne and have them rebarrel it for me to 470 Capstick. They did a very nice job with the CZ #1 upgrade on it this spring.

Chuck375,


I have both a 458 Lott and 470 Capstick for my Encore pistol 16 inch barrel on each weight 5- 6 lbs. but have muzzle brakes and are not bad at all to shoot, so maybe go with a lighter rifle and add a muzzle brake.

BTH

My CZ 550 458 Lott was re-worked by Harry McGowen, who took the rear sight base off and lightened the factory barrel. It sits in a McMillan sythetic stock and weighs 8-1/8 lbs. It is a pussycat to shoot, I guess it depends on how the stock fits you and your recoil tolerance. Nice to carry on long, hot days and doesn't beat you up when you shoot it.

My gut feel says go ahead and get it done (rebore to 470 Capstick), then shoot it and see how it feels. If I need to add more weight I'll take it to my gunsmith. I might as well start out a little light then move up in weight if I feel the need. I am going to get one of those Leupold ultima rubber eyecups to thread into my scope though ...



Chuck

I like the weight on my three big bore rifles.They are all around 9 1/2 lbs.The perfect weight IMO.[URL= ]a[/URL]

What calibers are they shootaway?

Two are 458 Lotts and one is a 458 WinMag.The one pictured on top is a CZ Lott and the other is a new Ruger,bolt action Lott.The large weight on the scale is 8lbs,the white water container is 1 lbs ant the ounces are indicated by the white weight.

Thanks shootaway, then my guess of my 375 H&H weighing around 9.5 lbs after being bored out to 470 and the barrel shortened to 22" is probably close.

shootaway- Did you get to Africa yet?

In a little over a week.

are those the leftover cans that your valve grinding compound/bore paste came in?

I can only gauge what a Lott or Capstick should weigh by my experience with my .458 AR.

Is built on a Parker-Hale Santa Barbara action bedded into a Fajen's synthetic stock. 22" Douglas barrel is a silhouette contour (heavier than a #5).

Custom mounts have been made to provide direct recoil transfer to the Leupold QRW rings. The cocking piece has been swapped for an FN with a left side safety.

Some lead shot was epoxied into the forend and several aluminum blocks have been added to stiffen the stock. Balance is superb.

Weight came out about 9.5 pounds ... and 10 pounds with a Leupold 2.5 Compact scope empty but with sling.

Frankly it's still a bit heavy to carry but it would be a bit brutal if it was much lighter. 500's at over 2250 fps are somewhat exciting.

Jeffeosso,when I get back I'll post a picture of me useing it in africa.

Thanks Mike, my 470 Capstick should be about the same weight (9.5 lbls) without scope and about 10.5 lbs with scope and rings and sling unloaded.

Chuck

Chuck,
That would be an iron sighted .470 at 10.5 top 11 pounds..

On a bolt gun I will go with 10 or 11 pounds with scope...

My preference is a 9.5 lb. with scope 40 caliber such as a 404 or 416 Rem or Ruger, even a .375 fits in this catagory with me.....9 lbs. without scope. I am opposed to carrying a real heavy gun 10 to 15 miles per day in the African heat. Although I can shoot the real big bores, I just don't like shooting them. I enjoy hunting and if something takes away from that then I won't do it, thus my choice of lighter big bores.

I appreciate that Ray, I'm going to try and make the big bore shoot in Sept and see if I can get to shoot a 458 Lott and a 470 NE. That will tell me if it's more recoil than I want to shoot. The five times I've been to the range with my 375 H&H, I've averaged 60 rounds per session. It was no problem, of course I have a CZ which is heavy to begin with, plus a mercury recoil reducer in the stock. The 470 Capstick will be 1/2 lb lighter if I have it rebored and the barrel shortened a bit. I'd like to be able to shoot 40 rounds per session if need be with the 470 Capstick. I'll be taking my 375 H&H into the Colorado mountains elk hunting in October, so I'll see how I handle the weight of the gun hunting at 10,000 to 11,500 feet altitude. It's going to be fun in the black timber...

Thanks for your advice as always,

Chuck

Hi Chuck:

I have four big bores and the 458 Lott is a custom AHR that weighs just shy of 12 lbs. scoped. It also has a muzzle break and (2) mercury tubes in the stock. I can handle recoil pretty well. And let me tell you, a 500 grain bullet at 2300 FPS kicks like hell. I can handle mine, but it is NO PUSSYCAT.

My 375 Model 70, 10 lb. pussycat. My 458 Ruger 77, old tang safety real pussycat. My custom 416 Rem mag. about 10.5 lb. muzzle break no pussycat but a hell of a lot less than the Lott.

Lex has it right, barrel lenght and ballance in a heavy rifle makes it manageable to shoot.

Regards... Jim P.

Thanks Jim, all the more reason to try and make the big bore shoot in Montana on Sept 6 and hopefully get to shoot one before I do anything irreversible.

Thanks

Chuck

Chuck,

My CZ 550 by AHR has a 22 1/2 inch long barrel plus 1 1/2 inch muzzle brake.



The end cap (without brake) is 0.80 inch.

Barrel band is about 0.845.

The barrel from receiver is a straight (no taper) for 2 inches and is at least 1 1/4 inch in diameter (I think).

Cant be sure without taking out of stock.

One thing about a 10-11 pound rifle with a stock that fits you is that you absolutely know it wont hurt you.

If it does, just back off 100 fps or so or switch to a faster burning powder w less propellant.

I did that and managed to get rid of the muzzle brake.

PS The McMillan kevlar BRNO 602 stock absorbs some recoil but is a bit "tiney" sounding in the bush.

Good hunting.

Andy

Thanks Andy, my CZ 550 375 H&H was worked over by AHR, they are great guys! They did their CZ #1 upgrade (match single stage trigger, 3 pos safety, and straighten and fill bolt handle) plus reglassbedded the action and added an extra recoil lug. It weighs 10.25 lbs without scope as is, just a little over 11 lbs with scope and rings. My barrel measures exactly .70" at the muzzle.



Thanks for all of the info!

Chuck