Hi, I am really interested in the 408 Chey Tac and 416 Barrett.

It looks like both are too long to make into a regular bolt action hunting rifle. If the 408 is based on the 505 Gibbs then it should work in the CZ 550 even as a single shot.

Has anyone tried to make one of the Badger Ordnance lowers for the 338 Lapua in a Remington work with the 408 Chey Tac?

What about using a the CZ 550 in a McMillan A5 stock? Could this be done.

I am thinking about building a CZ 550 in a 338 Lapua on the McMillan A5, but I really liked the idea of the 408 too. Was thinking it would be cool to have a pair of them.

What do you guys think?

Why?

Okay, the 505/416 gibbs can fit in a CZ 550, no problem, other than hooey about the rim. CZ has produced thousands of 505s. So, you can put it in the action.. but a single stack (not single shot) is the way to go.

can it be done? sure, would be kind of fun... right up to the point where you take a 400gr bullet past 2500 FPS... as 3000fps is quite a LOT of VERY fast recoil.

I head of someone that built a 9.5# 408, and touched it off at the range... the guy didn't drop the rifle, even all the way to the ground!!

Yes Jeff, but would the 408 fit in the Badger M700 lower with the 5 shot single stack mag for the 338 Lapua?

And could this same Badger lower be fit to the CZ 550?

And more so could the CZ550 be fit to the McMillan A5? or a Accuracy International ACIS?

I like the AICS design, but I'd like to build a similar unit in black laminate. Too bad the damn things are $800, it would be worth taking one apart to put it back together as a laminate.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Yes Jeff, but would the 408 fit in the Badger M700 lower with the 5 shot single stack mag for the 338 Lapua?

And could this same Badger lower be fit to the CZ 550?

I don't see that there is any way of that happening. I measure the .408 cartridge in my collection at 4.310, exactly the same length as a 500A2 with a 650g BMG bullet seated to the cannelure. 338 Lapua OAL is 3.550 or so.

Lawton is working on an action to accomodate the .408 now....I've got one on order, but with a Rigby boltface for 500A2. He was making a repeater too...supposedly. Mine's going to be a single shot.

Its still not listed on the website:

http://www.lawtonriflebarrels.com/

Call and ask about the 8500 long XL.

i dunno on the badger, but it works in a cz550

and *I don't know SQUAT about synthetic stocks.. especilly if they are "tactical"

I thought of the .408 Chey-Tac on a CZ 550 many moons ago. I even discussed this in person with Marc Jamison. He laughed.

You would have to keep pressures down to 55,000 psi max to stay within the bolt thrust parameters (CZ 550 Magnum limits) for the .505 Gibbs case head of the .408 Chey-Tac.

Top loads used with the Chey-Tac may be in the 65000 to 70000 psi range. Jamison reportedly builds the brass to handle 70Kpsi.

Sure, it can be done, but you are limited to single-shot loading with the VLD target bullets at low velocity.

You really need an action that can handle a 50 BMG or something like the Lawton mentioned above.

Hence the .416 Barrett has obsoleted the .408 Chey-Tac. And there are so many more .416 barrels and bullets out there.

A .416/.408 Chey-Tac would make more sense, but not much.

.416 Rigby or .395 Tatanka can be loaded to 65,000 psi safely in the CZ 550 Magnum or similar actions.

Come to think of the availability (from GSC and Barrett) of the 400-grain VLD target bullets for the .416 Barrett and .416 Nemesis (similar USA and New Zealand offerings) ...

This makes the .416 Rigby the top all purpose rifle for hunting and targets, in a sporting firearm around 10 pounds.

Of course you will need to use a 12" twist instead of those old fashioned 14" (Ruger) and 16.5" (CZ) twists.

2700 fps with a 400-grain VLD bullet in a 12" twist barrel.

An easy and slight improvement of the .416 Rigby case can be done by giving it a 20 degree shoulder like the .338 Lapua Mag. and .395 Tatanka.

That alone increases the case capacity and improves feeding in full auto.

You can further improve by blowing the body taper out wider, as the .416 Rigby has a lot of taper in the body.

However this might affect the slick feeding.

Clean up a .416 Rigby chamber with the .395 Tatanka reamer with .416 pilot, and you will out-Tatanka the .395 Tatanka.

This is called the .416 Rigby-Tatanka.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of any of these .50BMG wannabe's. The argument of its 80% of a .50BMG without the recoil and can be built on a smaller action is pretty weak. . If you want power and accuracy the .50BMG is the way to go. I've shot the .408 Chey Tac at 1000 yrds in a Barret and frankly my homebuilt Madii-Griffin .50BMG would shoot rings within it.! and Thats the least accurate ./50BMG I own.
As far as the Chey Tac on a CZ550 goes, good luck. The Chey tac is supposed to be a long range accuracy cartridge so whats the point of using a non-Rigid action like the CZ? How many M98 target rifles do you see at 1000 yrd matches. Answer- Zero! I just explained why. Ok so now its a hunting cartridge, just what will it do a .338 Full length Rum won't?
The Chey Tac would make some sense on a Mcmillan .50BMG repeater action as you now have the length, strength and rigidity needed with a 27-28 inch barrel. You do know you need that to burn all that powder don't you? If you go shorter, you will wind up essentially duplicating the ballistics of the .338 win. The advantage of a Mcmillan .50BMG repeater action is that with a Manners carbon fiber stock you could make the combo weigh in at 10-12 lbs and have a set-up that would be stiff enough to deliver real good accuracy at long range. Finally,I've never thought the .408 caliber made any sense( its purely a marketing ploy anyway) and would rather go with a .416. At least if they had made it a .409 you could write a song about it!-Rob

Rob,

Well put. This recent crop of "Super Long Range" calibers really shouldn't be converted into hunting situations - here's my reasoning:

1) Cartridges are large and require very stiff actions and heavy barrels to get the performance these cartrdges were designed for - long Range accuracy.

2) Over-penetration due to velocity and bullet designs available.

3) Relative obscurity in terms of available components and loaded ammunition. A real no-no for the traveling hunter in particular.

4) The temptation to shoot at unrealistic ranges and create unfavorable recovery / wounded animal situations.

IMHO,

JW

Yep! What Rob said. But some times the big stuff is more amusing!

I don't have a CW seige Mortar but I do have a 5.82 inch, 12 lb Coehorn in my living room. It's way more fun btw than a .408 chey-tac any day. Now THATS FUN.
Years ago when both the Lapua .338 and the .338 RUM came out, I deceided to see which was better. As some of you know, I have a titanium sleeved M700 switch barrel action that I personally blueprinted, so all I had to do was chamber identical barrels in both calibers. With the action sleeved its extremely ridgid and of course is a single shot only set-up. I quickly learned that both required lots of barrel length and made two 28 inchers. I can't remember the twist but I optimized it for the scenars. I have to admit the Lapua 300 gr Scenars were great bullets and probably in themselves account for the entire reputation of the .338 Lapua for accuracy. In the end ,I found that I actually got significantly better accuracy and higher velocity out of the std .338 RUM but then of course I know what I'm doing.-Rob

Any photos of the Coehorn in action? I don't think my wife would let me park one in the house otherwise I might do the same.

Don't forget twist if doing anything exotic, using bullets of distinction like the GSC SP's.

.338 Lapua Mag. (295-grain SP) special twist: 1:7.5"


.395 Tatanka (40-07) (340-grain SP): 1:12" standard


.408 Chey-Tac (385-grain SP): 1:13" standard


.416 Barrett (420-grain SP): 1:12" standard


500 Mbogo (50-08) (720-grain SP): 1:10" standard

RIP you planning on going Copper mining?, better stock up on kroil and ammonium hydroxide (30% and liquid Ivory soap 5:1))might work, but then again you'll learn with time.
Macifej-I actually just got the Coehorn and am going to make a lead ball mold for it maybe this weekend, so no pics just yet. I've had a 7 inch Oxygen cylinder mortar that fires wooden sabot mounted bowling pins for years. 3 oz of 1FG would launch a Bowling pin 1000 yrds with precision. 20 second hang times in the air was something to behold! I think I have a jpg movie of it somewhere. The Coehorn is just too cool though, its unique doesn't take up too much room and makes a great conversation piece.-Rob

Rob,

Uhhhh.....? You mean Iron ball right!!?

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
RIP you planning on going Copper mining?, better stock up on kroil and ammonium hydroxide (30% and liquid Ivory soap 5:1))might work, but then again you'll learn with time.

Rob,
I cry foul!!! Look at those progressive driving bands!!!
You obviously have no experience with GSC's lack of copper fouling. Right?

What? No monkey wrench jokes about the twists?

Rob, look for a supply of zinc to cast RBs for the Coehorn. They will come closer in weight to the original iron shot. When I was a kid, went to one of the battle fields of the "War of Northern Aggression". They were shooting a coehorn with a RB of cement and plaster of paris mix. I got the one they had shot, it hit a stump and broke in half.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Rob, look for a supply of zinc to cast RBs for the Coehorn. They will come closer in weight to the original iron shot. When I was a kid, went to one of the battle fields of the "War of Northern Aggression". They were shooting a coehorn with a RB of cement and plaster of paris mix. I got the one they had shot, it hit a stump and broke in half.

Keith

Isn't zinc toxic when you heat it up like that? Or does it have to get even hotter to be dangerous? Just curious as I have heard of bad news for guys heating up galvanized steel.

RIP- Got lots of experience with GSC's and other driving band bullets. They are not exactly new or rocket science either. Seriously Pay attention to the formula I gave you, you'll appreciate why soon enough. Don't wait too long to scrub the bore. You may also have to JB even after the ammonium hyroxide/ soap copper fouling remover-Rob

Charles,

"Metal fume fever, also called brass-founders' ague or zinc shakes, is caused by inhaling industrial zinc oxide fumes; it results in neurologic damage. Symptoms resolve after 12 to 24 h in a zinc-free environment."

Ingesting large amounts of zinc (200 to 800 mg/day), usually by consuming acidic food or drink from a galvanized (zinc-coated) container can cause vomiting and diarrhea.

Ingesting doses of elemental zinc ranging from 100 to 150 mg/day interferes with copper metabolism and causes low blood copper levels, RBC microcytosis, neutropenia, and impaired immunity.

Nevertheless, zinc toxicity is very rare.

Zinc deficiency in children causes impaired growth and delayed sexual maturation, hypogonadism, and hypogeusia (impaired sense of taste).

Deficiency is treated with elemental zinc 15 to 70 mg/day by mouth for 6 months.

We use zinc lozenges as cold remedies.

Zinc is a nutrient mineral and the adult male RDA is 11 mg/day.

11 mg of zinc makes a very small cannon ball.

I was just planning on using lead. This is a 5.8 Coehorn built on a 24lber casting. The guy I got it from said he shot lead ball shot from it. He said start with 1 oz and work up. I was thinking that I could easily machine steel balls for it. I spent a little time on the mortar websites and they seem to find lead just fine. Am I missing something? -Rob

ZINC! COPPER! LEAD!! THAT'S IT!!! I'm making all my projectiles swaged biomass.

Dang Chemicals.

Hey RIP! What does the reference guide say about the long term effects of airborne strontium 90 inhalation?

Depleted uranium?

Nope....above ground nuclear testing during the early 60's here in the USA.

RIP- FWIW I used to live 20 miles from Harry McGowans shop in Ill. He built one gun for me. I never had annything copper foul as badly as that 25-06. Accuracy was Ho-hum too. He had a lot of strange ideas as I remember (twist rates in particular) and his rep was just so so. He knew how to charge though and how to make you wait! No one won any matches with his barrels as they were too busy mining the copper out of them. It was kind of a joke at our gun club at the time. I shoot all sorts of driving band bullets and have mede many versions myself. After all ,I have a TL-1. Its really not hard either! THEY all Copper FOUL BADLEY! I use lilja and K&P barrels too. Pay attention to my formula its the only thing that will work. When your bullets hit sideways scrub the bore.-Rob

Rob,
I have had too many 1/2 MOA McGowen Big Bores to care about your experience with one .25-06 barrel made by an impostor named "McGowan" as you spell it.

Mine have been very easy to clean, usually no more than a couple of 20 minute soaks with Wipe Out foam bore cleaner, and they are spotless. I do not need your formula, thanks anyway.

An action not mentioned: RPA for .50BMG you can see them at www.okweber.com I have a PALMA rifle and an ANY/ANY, ANY/Iron , both built on RPA actions and they are excellent. Mine are the older models using bellville washers on the firing pin instead of a spring, not sure how this is built. Top quality actions and very stiff as has been mentioned. The threads are big and long to support 30" barrels and some shoot 32-34 inch. gduffey

Gary,
13.5 pound action? It is a great one for 50 BMG, so might as well do the .416 Barrett instead of a .408 Chey-Tac.

Still not a sporty 10 to 12 pound complete rifle. But excellent action. The .408 Chey-Tac in a CZ 550? I guess not.

I have a friend here who has every model of Barrett in .50 BMG. I have shot them all. I would rather spend my $$$ on other things, but each to there own. My rifles...may go hunting. They are not too astheticaly pleasing to me. Thats just me. gduffey

If you use game hunting bullets a
PH ACTION should work.....Ed

But there are no game-hunting bullets in .408, are there?
There are in .416 and even .395 (GSC).

Copperhead Custom Bullets can make them
if enough were ordered and 395s also.
Does good work on hunting bullets.Ed

How much are those barnett .416 bullets and where can you get them.I have not seen any anywhere.

Looks like both cartrdiges are too big to do what I want.

A 12 pound 338 Lapua will probably be it.

Don't waste your time and money on a .338 Lapua unless all you care about is the "different factor". The .338 RUM is cheaper and will substantially out-perform it.
RIP- WoW! Best of luck to you. You will need it. My best to Art Alpin too. I'm really impressed I really am! Pay attention to my brass fouling removal formula and also remember to keep downwind of other shooters when you use it. HINT- The bright slimy blue you see on the patch is COPPER FOULING! Be prepared, You'll see alot of it! Scrub till its gone! -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Copperhead Custom Bullets can make them
if enough were ordered and 395s also.
Does good work on hunting bullets.Ed