I and a friend of mine are wanting to buy a pair of A-Square Hannibal rifles in .577. T-Rex. I have never had one in my hands, and have really don't know how well put together they are. How is the fit and finish of the metal components? How well do they function as far as feeding, safety operation? How well does the bolt fit at the locking lugs etc? Is the stock inletting and finish of quality? We don't want to have anything left to do to the rifles as we receive them from A-Square.

Thanks, Robert G.

In finish quality the A-Square Hannibal is a small step down from a Marlin. But they usually work ok.

From my observation A Square rifles are well built and modernly built but have little or no beauty. You won’t see precise wood to metal fit; instead you will see perfect glass bedding which is stronger anyways. The metal work is good (trued and squared) just not pretty. They feed fine and your won’t have to rework any part. If the stock style suits you then I’m sure you will love the rifle. If you load it down to 2100 fps then it will be tolerable to shoot. Shoot 2500fps full house loads and it is simply an exhibition piece you let your friends (or enemies) fire. Art once told me you can’t get hurt from these big rifles but now we all now know he was full of it. Keep fit, limber up before shooting and avoid the bench to save your neck vertebrae.
Many guys don’t care for the extreme stock of the Hannibal rifle but some swear by it. Personally I prefer a heavy-duty modern high comb classic stock to hang onto instead. You can have equal or better rifles built for less money than A Square charges but you need to find the right smith.

Does A-Square have a web site?

quote:

Originally posted by PoppaW:
Does A-Square have a web site?

A2 web site

Fergus

Thanks for the link. No prices on site. How much is a Hannibal worth?

Ugly -- works --- ugly...

it's a reworked enfield with an ugly pool table stock.

iirc, these aren't checkered from the factory... guess not alot of folks wanted to pay for 6 LPI

jeffe

How many rounds down will that 577 T-Rex Hannibal hold?

You never know when you might need to make 2 or 3 quick follow up shots.

It will take 3 down.
I had a Hannibal in 577 Tyrannosaur earlier but sold it because fit and finish was not the best. In addition it was (and is) ugly!!
But I like the caliber so I am having a new one build.

I wouldn't mind "having" one - just to keep lying around the house or something, but I'll very likely never go anywhere or draw a bead on anything that I think the .577 would be necessary to shoot it with.

What would a .577 cost to have made, and who are some good smiths to screw one together?

My .416 Rigby #1 already kicks plenty for handing it to unsuspecting guests, and it's an "exceptionally adequate" gun for whitetails as-is.

To me the T-Rex is more a novelty piece without any real functional value in South Alabama. I suppose I could tell folks it was my skunk/armadillo gun, but I've got a few more everyday working guns on my list first.

in order of power in hunting rifles
600 OK
577 trex
550 magnum
585 nyati
550 express
577 NE

The 600 can be build from AHR for about 4500

the trex is basically a "buy it used" proposition

550 magnum can be had for ~$2200 from CZ custom shop or Jim brockman

585 nyati - Fred Wells or Dan Pederson -- starts at 5k

550 express - rebarrel a ruger 77.. Jim Brockman

577 NE - 15k - Searcy

jeffe

Jeff, I am curious about how you arrived at the power ranking. What bullet weight and velocity did you use for the 550 mag and 585 nyati to get their relative positions?

Is Brass available for the T-Rex or are people still using A-Square junk? By the way there is also a .585/600OK that AHR is working on. I gave them the reamer design and I think Ed may have a working model by now. That should be pretty potent. Basically a belted T-Rex made from good brass. They don't use Enfield actions or old fence posts for stocks either.-Rob

Dan,
550 magnum - 700 at 2385
585 nyati - 750 at 2300
recall that it was designed to be a 577 NE (2050fps - 7000lb-ft) in a bolt gun... which both 550s and the nyati exceed

less than 50lb-ft difference fwiw

I've shot Rob's nyati (and Neal's 550, as well as mine ) and they ALL exceed these velocities..
real world, don't care about brass life
585 nyati - 750 at 2400 (the end)
550 magnum - 700 at 2450 (the end)
550 express - 700 at 2220 (26" barrel) the end
Express loading data - with 23" barrel

brass lasts < 5 shots.. but that's not the PURPOSE of these rounds.. right? just like you can load a 30-06 way way past "real" for 3 shots..

Jeffe

The A square rifles are IMO lower end semi custom guns. They are ugly as sin as stated above but I've not heard of one not functioning upon arrival. If you like the stock or function is your priority go for it.

Personally I would say get AHR to make you a 600 OK. Recoil is completely up to you. The STD load of 168gr of 7828 is a pleasure to shoot even off the bench. If you want to go nuts you can take it to places that you will not be able to hold onto the gun. If you are going to stay in the 2150 fps range you can even lighten the gun to 12 lbs or so and it will still be very shootable. Of course this is IMO.


Rob, I've got a 585-600 barrel for my switch barrel on the 600 case. All I've done so far is test fire it and it is very similar to the 600 in recoil.

Once I get caught up at work I will get back to the shop and finish it up along with the other 7 barrels for it. I want to see how fast I can push a 416 bullet with a full case of 414 behind it.

It seems to me that the 550 and 510 barrels are the most practical. I don't have any velocities as all I've gotten to so far is test firing of all the barrels. It still needs all the little things like sights, stock, break, mag etc.

I'm totally hooked on switch barrels. I have either finished or in the works ones on 600 Ok, 378 wby, 375 H&H, 30-06 and 308. I have the barrels and plans for 505 Gibbs, 404 Jeff, 223, 220 swift and the rum case. The trick is the single stack mag. Absolutely no feeding issues and you could load any bullet you want.

John

You guys are gonna be building rifles that you have to tow behind your car and aim with a hand-crank soon.

....

Just take pictures.

Jeff,

Actually the end on the .585 nyati appears to be 750 grains at 2520 fps (going from memory) as that is what Ross S. wrote in his article. The .577 Ty can obviously exceed this by a decent margin. Why anyone would do so is beyond me.

So I think the order should be:

600 OK
577 trex
585 nyati
550 magnum
550 express
577 NE

Dan,
and I think Saeed's loading data on the 585 shows in excess of 2500 as well, but honestly stays around 2300. Remember the discussions on bolt lugs .. 50,000 PSI would give you more than 2300 in a nyati. But remember that 50,000 PSI in bertram brass makes that a 1 or 2 shot deal at best.

so, if you had deiter's brass, you might could get 2500 and brass life..

i have had the 550 express OVER 2250, but brass life was horrible, even with norma brass.

Sure, we can list it as 600, 577, 585, and 550... I don't think it is accurate, but it' really differing over some really far end stuff.

jeffe

I am surprised you had brass failing at 2250 in the .550 express. Was it from high pressure?

Although I gripe a lot about crappy Bertram brass, in the .585 Nyati I have not had one fail even after 5 or 6 reloadings. And that was shooting 750 grains at a chronographed 2267 fps. And I jealously hoard my Horneber brass, so I can't say much about its longevity.

The fun load in the .585 is a 1200 grain cast lead bullet at 1400 fps. It has low recoil, but you can still feel that something significant is happening.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I am surprised you had brass failing at 2250 in the .550 express. Was it from high pressure?

Although I gripe a lot about crappy Bertram brass, in the .585 Nyati I have not had one fail even after 5 or 6 reloadings. And that was shooting 750 grains at a chronographed 2267 fps. And I jealously hoard my Horneber brass, so I can't say much about its longevity.

The fun load in the .585 is a 1200 grain cast lead bullet at 1400 fps. It has low recoil, but you can still feel that something significant is happening.

I to have never had problems with Bertram brass in .585 Nyati.........................yet there .416 Rigby Brass is terrible !!

I have a small amount of Horneber .585 brass which I to save as it is darn hard to get !!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I am surprised you had brass failing at 2250 in the .550 express. Was it from high pressure?

Although I gripe a lot about crappy Bertram brass, in the .585 Nyati I have not had one fail even after 5 or 6 reloadings. And that was shooting 750 grains at a chronographed 2267 fps. And I jealously hoard my Horneber brass, so I can't say much about its longevity.

The fun load in the .585 is a 1200 grain cast lead bullet at 1400 fps. It has low recoil, but you can still feel that something significant is happening.

Dan,
remember the express is the 2.65" case.. from a 23" barrel.. I was pushing it as hard as it could go.. 2250 is about 120 fps faster than my target and hunting loads.. (2130)... that matches/beats the 577 NE>. Norma brass, but that's all there is.. have a 26" barrel, you'll be able to run 2200-2250 ..

the magnum can go over 2400

your 2267 FPS and getting 5 or 6 loadings sounds like a DARN good load for the 585 nyati.. 2300 is probably a bit stiffer load... in that bras. And probably max for that brass...

hence my conclusion for 2300fps with a 750 in the nyati being the working load... and certainly 2500 is a 2 shot, max, loading.

900gr at 1500 is a fun 577 NE load, for what it's worth..

So, i guess we could flip a coin for 585 vs 550 magnum... not bad company to keep

jeffe

Jeff,

I noticed a sharp jump in recoil between 2267 fps (ave) and 2320 fps. Enough that I backed down to 2267 fps and left it there. If developing another hunting load for the 585 nyati, it would be limited to 750 grains at 2100 fps.

The problem I had with Bertram brass never related to case failure. It related to rims that were too thick, brass that was too soft and therefore caused sticky extraction, case heads that were too big, and primer flash holes that were off center.

Dan

At the hunt we just had everyone shot the 550 Magnum at 2350 with a 700gr bullet no one that I was aware of theought it to much recoil. It would be interesting to see if you would feel the same way about the recoil of the 700gr @ 2,350 in the magnum compaired to the 585 750gr @ 2,267. Just a thought. When do you want to shoot the Magnum, going to be in Reno, SCI???

RNS

Bottom line load them up till you can not take it any more and that is the limit.

RNS

RNS,

Indeed I will be at Reno and would be delighted to pull the trigger on your .550!!!

I wonder if I can hit one of those big light bulbs in the ceiling of the convention center.....

I will bring it with the 2,350 loads. Do you think the hotel staff will mind if we set up water bottles in the parking lot.


RNS

quote:

Originally posted by RNS:
I will bring it with the 2,350 loads. Do you think the hotel staff will mind if we set up water bottles in the parking lot.


RNS

Better there than the hall!

Hey Neal
That sounds like something I would like to do also. Can I bring my 470?
Take care,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by RNS:
I will bring it with the 2,350 loads. Do you think the hotel staff will mind if we set up water bottles in the parking lot.


RNS

Water bottle shooting?

Sounds like we'll need a qualified instructor.. when do you need me there?

Dave,
I might would have the 470 AR running then TOO


Dan,
I think we all agree once you are at 7000 lb-ft, its now a matter of choice, not just power.

if we agree that 2300 is a PRACTICAL max on the 585 with bertram brass (do you REALLY want sticky extraction in a DGR?) then my original order is okay... beyond that, well, I guess if you are willing to HUNT dg with that load, we can list the nyati infront of the 550 mag (heh)

John,
Shesh, there's the 585-600... you scare me!!!

jeffe

Jeff,

The sticky extraction I experienced was not from pressure, and it only occurred in a minority of the Bertram cases I used, which I attributed to variations in the hardness of the brass. I have had no sticky extractions with Horneber brass.

I would not hunt with a max load in either the .585 or the .550 because it would be disadvantageous to do so as the rifles are hard to control at max loads. Instead I would load either to something in the 2100 to 2200 fps range. Also, in the .550 I would not use 700 grain bullets as I think they are too long. Extra long bullets have a greater tendency tumble in game. 650 grain bullets would be my preference.

So if we are going to order the cartridges based on how I personally would load them for hunting, it would fall out as follows:

600 OK - 900 gr. at 2100 fps
577 Trex = 585 nyati - 750 gr. at 2100 fps
577 NE - 750 gr. at 2050 fps
550 mag = 550 express - 650 gr. at 2100 fps

All of these loads would be +/- 50 fps.

Dan,
excellent!! you need to use the 700gr 550 bullets, though... even hawk grenades have an AWESOME SD and are shorter (relatively in calibers) than the 500gr .458

650s at 2150 in the express are easy to handle.. 700 are a tad more, and I generally load them to 2130, to JUST edge out the 577 NE.

the 577 is ROUGH at 2055.. trust me

jeffe

Dan

.585" Woodleigh
3 .585" 750gr RN SN 25 .313 .346 1800-2100 1.249"

From there catalog is 1.249" long

Alaskan Bullet works heavy jacketed bonded core soft point round nose is 1.275" long a total difference of .026". I think the 700gr .550" would preform like the 750gr .585" loaded to the same load.

RNS

RNS, do I remember right that 2400 with a 700 gr bullet was where your load development session ended but you felt there was more potential? For some reason I thought it looked like 2550-2600 might be obtainable? Not that I want to hunt with that dog, just curioous about the upper limits.

You guys want recoil? I can give you Recoil! Just try the 12GA FH with a 750 gr bullet over 270 grs of Rl-25. I think velocity is somewhere over 3200 fps. In a 25 lb Rifle it kicks like hell! I think 300 gr Sabots will top out over 4000fps. SMOKIN!-Rob

See my post above Rob ...

What you're describing in my mind isn't a rifle - it's an artillery piece with a stock on it.

quote:

Rob, I've got a 585-600 barrel for my switch barrel on the 600 case. All I've done so far is test fire it and it is very similar to the 600 in recoil.

Once I get caught up at work I will get back to the shop and finish it up along with the other 7 barrels for it. I want to see how fast I can push a 416 bullet with a full case of 414 behind it.

How is it possible to shoot a caliber .416 bullet in a 585/600 OK?
And how powerfull will the new 585/600OK be???
//OK

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:

quote:

Rob, I've got a 585-600 barrel for my switch barrel on the 600 case. All I've done so far is test fire it and it is very similar to the 600 in recoil.

Once I get caught up at work I will get back to the shop and finish it up along with the other 7 barrels for it. I want to see how fast I can push a 416 bullet with a full case of 414 behind it.

How is it possible to shoot a caliber .416 bullet in a 585/600 OK?
And how powerfull will the new 585/600OK be???
//OK

ok,
in his post, he said he's building a switch barrel rifle

so, a 416/600OK

jeffe

OK, there are 8 barrels total that are easy to change on the action. they are
600 OK
585/600
550/600
510/600
475/600
458/600
423/600
416/600
Simply unscrew one barrel and replace it with another.

I aalmost forgot my .585 RLG IMP. It's a .585 built on a .50BMG case. The flanged version is also available. The order of terror should include the following as well:
ALL FORMS OF TRUE ARTILLERY(20mm case and up)
12Ga FH
2 Bore( modern powder load)
4 Bore( modern powder load)
.700RLG IMP or .700 Hubel HE
.600RLG IMP
.585 RLG IMP ( T-REX on STEROIDS)TROS
.50BMG
.600 OK2 ( 3.2"")
.600 OK
.585 TREX
.700 NE
.585 Nyati 3.0""
.585 NYATI 2.8""
.600NE
.600JDJ
.550 Magnum
.500 A2
.550 express
.577NE
.505 Gibbs
.460WBY(600gr solids)
.500 Jeffery/ .500 AHR
.470MBOGO
.470 Capstick
.470NE
THE SMALL BORES
I base my list on having personally fired all of the above!


etc.

Damnit, stop it Rob! You're making my 550 Mag and 505 Gibbs look like pussy guns! Hell, the 505 didn't even make the list!

Fritz, when you get ready to do the switch barrel run on the 505 case I have a 416/500 reamer you can use for prairie dogs, LOL.