Good evening everyone,
Thought I'd step out of the shadows and say hello. I've been following for quite awhile and must admit it has been the lively discussions about Big Bores that spurred my interest and dreams of one day going to Africa to hunt cape buffalo. Don't know if that will ever happen, but in the meantime, l've acquiring a small collection of my own Big Bores. To date, I've managed to acquire a Ruger RSM in 458 lott, Ruger No 1 in 450 NE, yes its the Boddington and, the big daddy, an A-Square Hannibal, in the infamous 577 T-Rex.

Thought I'd post a few pictures and ask a few questions. But I can answer an obvious one first: Yes, I've already shot it, and it was a blast! Everyone at the range wanted to look at it but no one else dared to shoot it. So here's a few pics to start with.







Hope the links work,
Thanks,
Coy

Question:
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Choices:
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My fingers are too big for these tiny touch screens. Heres few more pics.

Coy, looks like your equipped to go! I've had 2 T-Rex rifles...if you can shoot that, you can handle anything. Welcome aboard AR.

If you need a matching A-Square for Plains Game, I've got one in 338-06.

Biebs

Beibs,

thanks.

The 338-06 sounds interesting. Hope its not as heavy as the T-Rex!

Right now my search has been for more ammo and brass!

I got RMC to make 20 rounds turned brass, but not sure of the load to use.

Reminds me of my 500. Except it had a 21" barrel. Otherwise it was set up the same.
What velocity and bullet weight do you shoot in it?

You make a guy with a .505 feel inadequate Cool stuff love to see the ballistic details. How much does it weigh?

They're 13 1/2 lbs as I remember, with 3 recoil reducers built in. Art loaded them up to 2,450 fps or so, but you don't need to go nearly that fast. Pretty cool rifles, but approaching unshootable at max velocity. I'm having Ed Hubel build me a 585 HE, also a 577 caliber, on an Enfield action with an A-Square bolt and stock. MPI still makes A-Square stocks in fiberglass. The 577 T-Rex is almost impossible to find brass for, but Ed has thousands of new 585 HE brass.

577 T-Rex ballistics are listed in the reloading section here on AR.

Shooting the T-Rex is on my bucket list. Looks like a great gun, enjoy!

This monster has the full 26" barrel.

I'm debating whether or not keep the original length or shorten it to 22" or 24" and have a muzzle brake installed.

I think the brake may look awkward. Right now it is definitely muzzle heavy!

Yeah, I did not realize about the mercury recoil reducers when I bought it. Took it home and took the action off and heard all this sloshing sounds, thought I spilled something!

Right now I only have 10 original A-Square rounds, plus the 20 shell from RMC, plus playing around trying to fire-form some 585 Nyati brass. I'll post some pics later this week.

Here's what I loaded in 4 of the RMC turned/ spun shells:

A-SQUARE - "ANY SHOT YOU WANT" MANUAL
140gr H-4831
750 Barnes SP
MV = 1908
ME = 6064
CUP = 22,200
PSI = 15,753
Using this conversion formula:
ANSI PSI = (-17,902 + 1.516 x CUP)

I haven't fired any yet, not sure if I should reduce the load a bit more.

Oh, I do need to give a shout out to Ed Hubel, he gave me some advice before I posted.

Thanks

Are you planning to hunt the rifle? I regret not putting a muzzle break on my 500. I would no doubt still have it if I would have.
Have you watched The Champions video series here at AR?

No great hunts planned for the near future.
I think in it's current configuration, the T-Rex is too ungainly to take into the field. Sure would make a mess of a hog!!!

Right now it's good for making nice craters in the berm.

Yes I saw the Champions videos along time ago-
When I saw the rifle for the first time I was thinking, I've seen this before.

I have a video of myself letting one loose, I'll try to get that posted. Maybe Saeed will put me on the list!

That Is a Great Big rifle. I'm something of a sucker for short barrels which is why I went with the 21" length on my 500 . .

Cool rifle! I want to shoot it just so after I do my 500 Jeffery will feel like a 375

quote:

I want to shoot it just so after I do my 500 Jeffery will feel like a 375 Smiler

More like a 22 Rimfire...they're truly brutal.

The 750 gr bullet @ 2,000 fps shouldn't be too bad ey. The 500 had a 707 gr load @ around 2200 fps. It was a moving experience shooting it but wasn't too discombobulating.

I can't see any reason to take it above 577 NE velocity. I've never heard of the 577 lacking in killing power. ????

I had a T-Rex and sold it a few years ago with 100 pieces of brass. The guy I sold it to shot it once, dropped it once and promptly sold it again.
I would not chop the barrel. If you do you just wind up with a heavy .585 Nyati with really rare brass.you take a beating on whatever collector value it may have too. Just my opinion.-Rob

Here's a pic of the RMC brass loaded with Barnes 750gr TSX and 750gr SP with 150gr H-4831SC. I was told there is no pressure difference between the SC and regular H4831.

Debating if I should pull the bullets and reduce the charge to 140 or 130gr. Using tissue paper as a filling. Also max charge I could fill was 170gr capacity.

Would 150gr be safe in turned cases, or have I made myself some hand grenades? Any advice appreciated.




Resized the pic.

If those cases were made from turned brass your max pressure should be 35Kpsi. I would not fire anything developing more pressure than that in turned cases. I don't have quick load with me so I can't estimate what pressure your loads should develop.
I've made turned brass cases before and always adhered to the dogma of don't go over 35kpsi in them. You risk catastrophic case failure. -Rob

Yikes, be careful. It's one thing overloading a 22 Hornet, you could create a bomb with those things.

You are probably over 35K, which is a good rule for safety in turned cases.

I'd go with 150 gr of RE25, VV170, IMR 7828, Magpro Ball, VV570, H1000

and others in same speed range or slower. And if you

use RE25 and the ball powders in that speed range,

you will get more speed for the same amount of peak pressure.Ed

All-

Thanks for the advice, I will look for the other powders and see what I can find.

Guess I need to get quickloads and crunch some numbers!

What about reducing the charge to say 120 gr of H-4831SC and adding a filler, say cream o wheat or oatmeal, to reduce the pressure? Just asking cause I have several pounds already-

Thanks

For a filler use dacron fluff like from pillow/quilt stuffing.
Sometimes oat-cornmeal packs and doesn't reduce pressure.
That is why some use meals to fireform cases as it packs a little


If you start at 120gr and watch expansion just above the base
and keep track of how hard it is to resize cases, as you go up,
you can get an idea of how the increases in powder
affects those cases.

If cases have proper long inside radius from base to the sides in the
lower corner they will expand less sharply and size much easier
with heavier loads, We found that out in the 12ga FH work.
Had some in 12ga with sharp radius and expanded out sharply
quite a bit and hard to resize.Got ones made right and could
run 50% higher pressures.Ed

I admit I having a bit of a struggle trying to reload this beast. I'm not use to such large case size.

The use of the Dacron confuses me. Does it function as a simple air/space filler or does it provide some compression to hold the charge from spreading?

So, would I load to a mild compression when seating a bullet, or just as a space filler with no compression?

Thanks

You are really in uncharted territory. Get someone to run quickload and see where you are. Do not guesstimate! I'd start at a 30kpsi load, check brass for extraction stickiness and fractures. Then very cautiously move up. Turned brass sticks in the chamber before you blow a case so if your careful you will be alright. Add enough Dacron to just hold the powder charge in place up to the case mouth. A little more hurts nothing, but no need to major compress it. You just don't want any air space in the case. Use fed 215 primers too. Did you or the maker of the brass ever aneal the neck? That should have been done before you loaded it. I've made such turned cases before and not had a problem, but I was extremely careful.-Rob

Saeed,
Thank you for the link. I have been looking at the AR loading page and the TRex info from Any Shot You Want.

Rob,
Regarding the annealing. The shells appear to be annealed. But at this point I will contact RMC for verification. I ordered the shells, and it took 6 months for delivery. I was so excited to get them I wasn't thinking about the annealing!

Thanks

I would re-anneal them in any case. Get a propane torch and while holding the case, rotate just the necks in the flame till they glow dull red uniformly. just heat the necks try and stay off the shoulders as much as possible. Then immediately drop the case into cold water.thats all there is too it.
When I made turned brass .600 ok cases. They worked very well as long and I doecifically stayed under 35 KPSI.

Rob,
Will do. I called RMC and sent them an email today. Thanks for the info about the shoulder, It was a concern.From the looks of the cases, they were turned from a tapered wall configuration and then, die formed at the neck and shoulder, you can see a change in direction of the tool marks.

Curious, what kind of load and MV you get with the 600 OK turned brass?

One of the guys at work is into cowboy action shooting and mentioned, that I should try using, blackpowder loads, that it burns very slow, is that doable or off the rails?

Thanks

I don't think I ever chronographed my turned brass rounds. I made them just to test fire the gun while we were waiting for Dieter Horneber to make the first run of drawn .600 ok brass.
I would stay away from black powder as its a mess to clean up and not worth it although you would probably be the first to have ever tried it in a T-Rex!!!!
If I get into the shop tomorrow , I'll check quickload and find a few loads that should be safe at 30KPSI with Dacron filler. Do you have any 5744 powder? It is great in large cases and low pressures.

Rob,
If you could run the quickloads, would be greatly appreciated. I asked a few guys in the office who reload if they used it, but they are using reloading manuals.

Powder wise I have a few lbs of IMR-4198, to use with 550 & 600 gr lead bullets and a few lbs of H-4831SC for the 750gr Barnes SP and TSX bullets. I might be able to get some H-1000 or IMR-7828, but not until the next gunshow, if you think the 5744 is better I'll track it down.

thanks

Rob,
Wideners reloading has Accurate 5744 in stock, let me know and I can order it.

Thanks

Ok- I've plugged in my data for the T-Rex into quickload and it says with a 750 gr bullet, and with H-4831SC that you can start with 135gr for 30KPSI up to 143gr for 35KPSI. Frankly that feels about right! The 135 gr load should deliver 1900 fps at 5938 ft-lbs and the 143gr load will do 6675 ft-lbs. use fed 215 primers!!!!!!. Add a small amount of Dacron filler to hold the charge in place right up to the case mouth! Then seat the bullet! I'd start at 130 grs myself (27.5 KPSI)and work up till you feel any sticky bolt extraction and then back down 2 grs. You might fire the first loads from a tire with a string just to be absolutely safe, because your using turned brass. I think you should be fine though.-Rob

Rob,
Can't thank you enough!
Those numbers sound excellent!
Should put me right at 577 NE levels which is just fine by me!
I'll pull the bullets and reload accordingly-
It may take a few weeks to get out and fire them off.
RMC did respond and said the necks were annealed before shipping. I can see the slight discoloration, but thought it might have been from their initial neck sizing.
Once again-
Thank you!

No problems-Glad to be of help! you will be one of the few here playing with turned cases. I would reiterate using the tire and string approach for the first shot. I've heard good things about RMC but it always pays to be safe! the cases should just pop out of the chamber. If you feel a hard bolt lift or sticky extraction back off the load a few grains.

Well,
This weekend made it to the range with a few shooting buddies. Took the RMC rounds and fired off five.

Here's the loads:
Bullet : 750 gr Barnes SP
Primers : Fed 215
Powder : H-4831SC
Charge :
125.0gr
127.5gr
130.0gr
132.5gr
135.0gr
Filler : Dacron Poly Fill

Pics pre fired:



Pic post Fired:



Primers look OK, I didn't get them seated deep enough, they where flush but not far enough below the base, but no puncture or miss fires.

All the shells had a slight ring above the base, it is barely noticeable. I think the brass expanded from .685 to .686. below the ring, there was no expansion from the unfired shells, both measured at .685 at base and web.

I think the base is a bit small and needs to be .688 per shell spec. The original A-square round I fired a while ago has no ring, so definitely not the chamber.

Once again,
Thanks Rob for running the load data.

Recoil was fine, nice brisk punches to the shoulder! All shells extracted and slid out with ease.

Any Idea about the black residue on the case mouth? Possible from the Dacron?

Thanks

Here's a pic of unfired next to fired case,
these are the RMC turned brass cases.

The residue is from keeping pressures down which means

that the neck doesn't expand fully to seal against chamber and

that allows a little leakage, Don't hurt. just clean it off

with 600 grit emmery paper.

That ring will shorten case life quite a bit.compared to drawn cases.

I feel that using more of a powder, with slower starting speeds, IE getting

to peak pressure slower, will get you more speed less ringing of the brass,

and longer case life. Such powders have a taller average pressure curve,

IE more overall energy, for more speed, one is the new technology Alliant

RE17. But it is too fast in turned case in the proper amounts for good ignition,

BUT ATK Alliant just came out with same new technology, in the new RE26.

The technology has to do with how the deterents are applied, which is

whart controls the speed range of all powders.

No dacron needed, just fill case 92%(11/12ths) full and go up.

I compare 585HE case with full loads of RE25 and RE26, both very moderate loads

in our case. The RE26 130 fps faster in 28" barrel.And cases expand .001".

They are tough cases as they expand very little anyway.Ed

585HE...the modern-day T-Rex!

Ed,
Thanks for the info- if I understand correctly, RE25, VV170, IMR 7828, Magpro Ball, VV570, H1000 would also give a lower peak pressure than the H4831SC?

Our local "fun"show is this weekend so I will be shopping for powder.

I've sent one of the cases back to RMC for them to take a look at. I really think the base at .685 is an issue and it needs to be much closer to the .688 at the base. The cases appear to have all expanded evenly and stopped at the same point.

And the 585 HE cases are incredible. Can you give me an idea of other rifles that might work other than P1914/M17 or Ruger No 1s.

Thanks