The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Iron sight zeroGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
What distance do you guys zero you guns with iron sights? I was shooting some 2 liter bottles at 50yrds with my 375 yesterday, and after the first shot I thought I missed but then noticed I shot the cap off, so I had my buddy shoot it and he did the same thing. I then lowered the sight and on the next shot it hit about 2in high of where I was aiming. Should I leave it there to help with longer shots, or zero it? | ||
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| One of Us |
Here is a trajectory table from a 300gr Barnes TSX doing 2500fps out of a 375H&H with a 100yrd zero Calculated Table Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead (yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA) 0 -0.8 *** 0.0 *** 2508.4 2.247 4190.6 0.000 0.0 *** 25 0.0 0.0 0.1 0.3 2445.8 2.191 3984.2 0.030 5.3 20.4 50 0.4 0.7 0.3 0.5 2384.1 2.135 3785.7 0.061 10.8 20.6 75 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.8 2323.3 2.081 3595.0 0.093 16.4 20.9 100 -0.0 -0.0 1.1 1.1 2263.4 2.027 3411.9 0.126 22.2 21.2 125 -0.8 -0.6 1.8 1.3 2204.3 1.974 3236.0 0.159 28.1 21.4 150 -2.1 -1.3 2.6 1.6 2146.0 1.922 3067.2 0.194 34.1 21.7 175 -3.8 -2.1 3.5 1.9 2088.6 1.871 2905.4 0.229 40.4 22.0 200 -6.1 -2.9 4.7 2.2 2032.1 1.820 2750.4 0.266 46.8 22.3 Here is a trajectory table from a 300gr Barnes TSX doing 2500fps out of a 375H&H with a 150yrd zero Calculated Table Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead (yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA) 0 -0.8 *** 0.0 *** 2508.4 2.247 4190.6 0.000 0.0 *** 25 0.3 1.3 0.1 0.3 2445.8 2.191 3984.2 0.030 5.3 20.4 50 1.1 2.1 0.3 0.5 2384.1 2.135 3785.7 0.061 10.8 20.6 75 1.4 1.8 0.6 0.8 2323.3 2.081 3595.0 0.093 16.4 20.9 100 1.4 1.3 1.1 1.1 2263.4 2.027 3411.9 0.126 22.2 21.2 125 0.9 0.7 1.8 1.3 2204.3 1.974 3236.0 0.159 28.1 21.4 150 -0.0 -0.0 2.6 1.6 2146.0 1.922 3067.2 0.194 34.1 21.7 175 -1.4 -0.8 3.5 1.9 2088.6 1.871 2905.4 0.229 40.4 22.0 200 -3.3 -1.6 4.7 2.2 2032.1 1.820 2750.4 0.266 46.8 22.3 You be the judge | |||
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I sight dead on @ 75 yds for all guns with irons Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If you zero at 100yds you will be dead on at 50 and 25yds. | |||
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I have a target at about 75 yds (4" gong) and I find this cover my iron site range too a tee!! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I try for 100 but then shoot irons mostly at 50 opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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50 yds for irons is a good average distance. Realistically, your front sight starts to cover a lot of the target when the range gets very much further out. Not a big issue with large dangerous game but a real problem on the plains variety. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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For DG with my 375 or larger I sight my irons on at 50 standing sight, 100 leaf, and 200 yard leaf. I still use the leaf system. It worked bach when and still does but I think I'm the only one that does it anymore... If I have only one standing or a receiver or peep then I sight it 1 inch high at 100 for DG..I do like to hold under what I'm shooting at, like the eye needs to be visible to shoot at it, same with the nose, hold dead on the nose and your bullet will hit at the hairline on a buff that is pointing his nose at ya.. Also depends on caliber..With a .338 or under then I sight 2 or 3 inches high at 100. I prefer the Talley QD peep on the Talley bases for iron sights, but still like the old shallow V or even a narrow V with a post and hold it flush like a pistol sight is fast and accurate. I use this one on my Win lever actions. My advise is use what works for you..I do a lot of iron sight shooting and hunt a good deal with irons, and have played with them a lot over the years, plus I grew up in the iron sight era, but today usually have a scope handy to snap on, just in case...I have used irons more in Africa than in the USA btw... I would not own a rifle that did not have irons and irons that are sighted in.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Shootaway.....please explain how you can have a gun dead on at 3 distances. Andy #3 | |||
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It's got something to do with large doses of psychotropic drugs.. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Shootaway, you top yourself with each post. You must be the dumbest invertebrate on the planet. Tell me, does your beloved Searcy have more than one rear sight? If so, why? Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I have a 375H&h with standing marked 50yds and 200yds, folding 350yds. I think nowdays i have 100yds eyes on a nice sunny day! Cheers, Chris DRSS | |||
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Here are some numbers I got from running Federal's Ballistic program. These assume the sighting plane is .5" above the center of the bore (iron sights): If you zero your .375H&H for 100 yards then virtually any factory load will: If you zero your .375H&H for 150 yards then virtually any factory load will: If you zero your .375H&H for 200 yards then virtually any factory load will: If you want dead on sighting for close work then zero your .375H&H for 75 yards. That will: If I was using one aperture or sight blade for general use I would regulate it for 100 yards If I was using one aperture or sight blade for close work I would regulate it for 75 yards If I had two sight blades I would regulate one for 75 yards and one for 150 yards If I had three sight blades I would regulate for 75, 150, and 200 yards (and probably only use the first two) . | |||
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Theoretical results are one thing however you must have experience with maintaining and shooting your rifle to obtain those results-same with trajectories.Just because a table says your rifle will impact there doesnt mean your rifle will impact there. | |||
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| One of Us |
With the groups shown,in the pictures in your "predictable accuracy" thread how can you tell where you are hitting at any given range?
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Your stupid-you dont even have anything to offer on the subject-just came here to crap.We can rightfully say that you are FULL OF CRAP!  | |||
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George you are obviously an expert at being full of crap---  "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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To the OP, I'm guessing your 375 is not a double rifle. I learned to shoot with iron sights and shot them for decades in matches. With today's rapid optical sights there is no reason to hunt with iron sights. With a top quality variable where the bottom power is 1X (where it should always be set at until you have a reason to change it). You shoot with both eyes open and it is far faster and more accurate than irons. My big bores all wear the Trijicon 1-4 with the amber post. It's a bulletproof scope and the reticle is unique needing no batteries. DO NOT buy any of the dot models as the dot is too small to be of any use. As the yellow retical sits on two skinny posts that you can see between, blocking the target or making holdover difficult is not an issue as it is with a solid post. All my big bores have iron sights as back up but are inferior in low light and far more fragile than the Trijicon. Older model of same scope mounted on Merkel 9.3x62. A classic wild boar rig.  | |||
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What I was trying "to offer" was it is not a good idea to take advice on shooting from a guy who, if he "crap"s like he shoots can not hit the toilet seat with his ass.
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Gee and I thought the thread was on helping out the OP with a sighting in issue ! | |||
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Well, not considering the post about a bullet hitting at the same elevation at three distances (still scratching my head about that one), one thing I wonder about with iron sights and zeroing is aim point. If you are shooting a six o'clock hold on a specific size target, when you zero, it will be so for that size target. Of course if you can hold center on a target with iron sights I guess it's not a problem. I just can't see iron sights as well as I used to (though they are fun to shoot with). sputster | |||
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Metalbeater, I think I'll disagree that there is no reason to shoot iron sights with such varibles scopes as we have today..That is only opinnion and opinnions can vari... I actually prefer irons under some conditions over any scope of any power for several reason such as ease of carry, balance, and pointability under severe conditions..I like irons in the rain forest and heavy snow conditions and I actually prefer them for DG in thick jessee as do many professionals, they never get out of zero, and they don't break under harsh conditions for the most part, I said "Most part" just to be safe  ..I understand that many and in fact most prefer a scope under all conditions these days as they grew up in the scope generation, they even like 4x16 varibles on DG rifles..big scopes on small dainty guns UGH!! but if thats all they ever shot then its best to go with a low varible scope no question about that.But I would appreciate a lack of flat out statements and be allowed to continue to hunt with my chosen irons if you don't mind! My post is all in good nature btw..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Fifty yards for me. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I sight in so the POI at 100 yards is exactly on the top of the bead. With my .458 that makes it dead on at 25 yards and about 1/2" high at 50. My bead covers 8" at 100 yards when I'm holding it, so if I just aimed with the center of the bead it wouldn't cause a miss. If you need that last bit of precision use the top edge from zero to 100. The 1/2" at fifty isn't going to change your life much, and honestly just plastering the bead on the side of some luckless mammal will take care of it too. At 200 yards, the .458 will drop 8" from its 100 yard zero. The bead that covered 8" at 100 yards now covers 16" at 200. That puts the 200 yard POI square in the center of the bead. The ever expanding bead will compensate a bit farther than that. You can even use the bead for a crude rangefinder if you want. The .458 doesn't exactly have banjo string trajectory, but even with its looping path it is quite useable to 200+ with a single sight setting. You could even call it point blank to past 200 with this sighting. | |||
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Ray, I agree with your assessment of Talley peeps. Love them. I like a rather big bead and take a six o'clock hold. On a big bore, I sight in at 25 yards and check where I am at 50 and 100. Dogleg's input is interesting. I'll have to play with that. I don't agree that there is no need for irons with modern variable scopes after having to resight my rifles every couple of days due to rough terrain on my last trip to Western Tanzania. On my Lott, I'm thinking about a reddot of some type on the front Talley base and the peep on the rear -- not at the same time obviously. For me, that's a 100 yard rifle and both of those sights would be adequate. Back down to a .416 and I think a scope is obligatory, although should be detachable. P.S. Sometimes I regret putting Shootaway on ignore. It sounds like he said something entertaining yet again. | |||
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Nope Ya didn't miss a damn thing--he's still himself- and that isn't good. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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Ray I guess we have to agree to have different opinions. Iron sights as typically put on sporting rifles are far more fragile than a quality scope solidly mounted. I'll admit that the irons on a P 17 Enfield or an M-1 are very rugged devices but other than the new Merkel SR1 irons are easily damaged. Then we have the age factor. Most of us who were in college when JFK was President cannot see a rear, front sight and the game all at once unless we use a tiny receiver sight hole. Then there is that dark shadow back in the trees, having a 1-4X Trijicon lets you zoom up to 4X and the reticle is far easier to see in low light. I neither guide nor hunt (on purpose) things that can kill me easily. Nor do I have to deal with a bear or buff that some client gut shot and is now holed up in the thick stuff. The small exposure I have to big nasty critters (Mr. Griz) comes on rides in the back country when there are times that buckbrush patches along streams have to be traversed. A 10 bore Browning with alternate loads of 2 oz. slugs and triple O buck is in the scabbard and should the horse leave w/o me a S&W 329 stoked w/310 gr hardcast max loads and a laser is attached to me by a tanker holster and lanyard. I look to the day when a Schmidt & Bender quality long range (out to 300 yds) daylight laser will be available. That will be a real game changer. Thanks for your thoughts ! | |||
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This covers many of us younger folk who were in Junior High when JFK was killed. I can concentrate on two of the three but no longer all three in the sight picture. So while I do have iron sights on my two DG quality rifles I did eliminate the rear barrel sight for flip-up peep sights. I do however prefer using a variable scope with a 1X or 1.5X for close range work versus using iron sights; just a heck of a lot clearer sighting picture... Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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The .375's and most of the other big caliber rifles I have had with iron sights usually shoot pretty close at 100 yards if sighted dead on at 25 yards. Some need some fine adjustments once you get to 100 yards from the 25 yard sight in, but most are very close. If sighted in at 50 yards most shoot high at 100. 25 Yards seems to be the best place to start to get to a good placement at 100 yards. | |||
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In my case and with the 416, and with the 375 before it, I prefer to sight it for zero at 100 yards, and know that it is a tad high at 50 yards. In most actual hunting applications at 40 or at 75 yards it doesn't make any difference as that small amount of impact difference higher will essentially hit the same critical spot . I grew up shooting open sight rifles, and I still do shoot them. I much prefer the notched rear whether that be a V or a U style or similar. I have lever rifles and I shoot them for fun too and they all have that same Winchester style front and rear sight with open sights and none of them have ever been scoped. Yes I prefer my glasses for a close precision shot at 100 but even without them I am around or close to the target. I really never liked the aperture type sights and I still don't shoot them as well as the open style sights. If I had to stop a charging animal at a closer range, which I never have had to do, then I would much prefer my open sights to any type of scope or red dot etc as the open sights are just more natural to me. Separately, at the DSC show I did look at at a safari style bolt rifle at Hill Country Rifle from here in Texas that had an interesting open sights with a fiber optic on or in them . It was a very nice set up and I am thinking of having it put on mine too . | |||
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True, and correct in actual shooting. Is proven physics, not theory. I happen to have a .375 H&H with an original Mauser Magnum action. It has a rear sight set-up of 1 standing leaf and three folding leaves (no scope, not even drilled or tapped for one). When I first sighted it in, I filed the standing leaf to be dead on at 75 yards. Puts 2 each 235 gr. Speer, .270 gr. Hornady, and 300 gr. Sierra bullets all in a 6-shot hole about 3/4"-1" in diameter (from bench rest). . Then I tried it at 25, 50, and 100 yards. to get an idea how it shot up close, and whether I should file the first folding leaf for 100 or 125 yards Shot so close to where I pointed the rifle at 100 yards I didn't file the next leaf at all. The more I have used the rifle, the more I have realized that there is nothing in THIS world would want to use a .375H&H on at over 125 yards. So I have never filed ANY of the three folding leaves. No need to. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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