Gentlemen.

It's good to read the words of staunch Americans proudly defending products coming out of their country. Bravo.

1. Could they place that rear swivel stud any further back?
2. Are those circles on face of the bolt or just poor quality pictures?
Who knows?
Since when is .416Rigby Magnum Mauser by Rigby rare? Look, it's not a Purdey!
Yes, a Purdey in that caliber with some fine rose and scroll engraving would be worth a LOT.
Just a hint, but a .404 bolt gun once owned by John Kingsley-Heath sold at Bohmans for a lot less!
I would say the asking price for this piece is...

.

Alf, thanks for that stat.
Contact info: Portage, WI where median household income was $35,815 (yr 2000)! Please, someone rescue that beauty now!

I predict that that Rigby will easily sell for the asking price. And be worth twice that in ten more years.

My turn!!!

First-off, 35,000.00 is the "ASKING" price.

Secondly, I recently tried to get one at 26,000.00 and it sold at that price before I could get my hot little hands on it - it was a hell of a lot rougher looking than this one.

There's a good chance this gun (if it checks out) will arguably be one of the best examples of an original Rigby in the world today.

So, what's that worth? A lot to collectors like me.

Given that I own some of the better examples of modern bolt guns; Hoenig, Win pre-64 SGs, etc...I'll put it to the doubters / critics this way:

Rigby is the grandaddy of Safari bolt guns. They only made around 200 ever (in .416)...They ain't making any more of them...

...Modern, custom-made rifles will of course have prettier wood, metalwork, etc....But, they are not, nor will they ever be the progenerators of an entire genre of hunting rifles - this gun is and has a distinct place in history - the very history of a sport / lifestyle all of us here on this forum love so dearly. Who gives a S#!T what the gun sold for originally (somebody mentioned that earlier) - that's a piss-poor way to argue against the value of an antique.

That rifle won't last a week once the word is out!

Some lucky guy is going to go over to africa and drill a Buff / Ele with it and years later sell it for a tidy profit - GUARANTEED!

Just my .02!

PS - Thanks for the post - now the words out here!

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Some lucky guy is going to go over to africa and drill a Buff / Ele with it and years later sell it for a tidy profit - GUARANTEED!

A M E N ! ! !

No one is saying anything negative about the rifle's collector value, place in history etc.

But as a gun with the Rigby name removed it is pretty rough gear. One look at the end of the bolt will tell you that.

Mike

So? One look at a Picasso canvas without the name will say the same. Who'd buy that sh*t just for the picture?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

But I do like Woodjack's posting......"Ask the dealer to give you a written guarantee for a buy back price, and you will soon find out the confidence that he has placed on its value."

Mike

I don't know if that is a good price or not. Considering condition and the fact that less than 85 416 Rigbys were made prior to 1980, the 416 was not very popular in the old days, it may be worth that amount.

Asking for a buy back price would not be out of line and I am sure that if the dealer felt the price was right he would give it. Minus the commission, which may be as much as 20%.

Custom rifles may or may not be good, depending on the maker, but one thing for sure, they are a piss poor investment. Maybe your grandkids might make a buck off of them but maybe not.

In 80 years no one will even remember the top makers now but Rigby and Holland will still be worth more than they are today.

As for accuracy, I don't think any new tricks nave been learned there in the last 50 years either. Too many people talking through their hat around here about things they know nothing about.

Mickey1, I won't name names but I think there are a few (at least more than one) modern makers who will join the ranks of H&H, Purdy and company in terms of value one day down the road. The question that remains in doubt is can a company in America sustain the name recognition for the same period of time. Our individualism is a wonderful thing in some respects but I doubt in 150 years there will be a David Miller Rifle Co, or Echols or any other for that matter. New craftsmen will take their place but it would be nice to have a long enduring tradition under a single American house.

Got any stock tips ?

There lies the delima. Quarterly profit reports and Best Guns are continents apart.

Son of a bitch. I can't for the life of me figure how to spell delima. Brain farts suck.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Son of a bitch. I can't for the life of me figure how to spell delima. Brain farts suck.

Merriam-Webster Online:

Entry Word: dilemma
Function: noun
Text: a situation in which one has to choose between two or more equally unsatisfactory choices <they were faced with a dilemma: either they could spend the night out in the cold or they could walk back into their house and face their father>
Synonyms quandary
Related Words deadlock, halt, impasse, quagmire, stalemate, standoff; knot, problem; difficulty, fix, hole, jam, pickle, pinch, plight, predicament, spot

Thancs so mooch. At leest I was cloose.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Mickey1, I won't name names but I think there are a few (at least more than one) modern makers who will join the ranks of H&H, Purdy and company in terms of value one day down the road.

Why do you think that? Name the best gunmakers of the Nineteenth Century. Do their values equal H&H, Pudey or Rigby of the same time period?

quote:

The question that remains in doubt is can a company in America sustain the name recognition for the same period of time. Our individualism is a wonderful thing in some respects but I doubt in 150 years there will be a David Miller Rifle Co, or Echols or any other for that matter. New craftsmen will take their place but it would be nice to have a long enduring tradition under a single American house.

We do. Winchester, Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Thancs so mooch. At leest I was cloose.

Mickey, Mickey, Mickey. Winchester, Remington and Colt are historic names but the quality of their products have not maintained the consistant excellence or value of H&H et al.

quote:

Why do you think that? Name the best gunmakers of the Nineteenth Century. Do their values equal H&H, Pudey or Rigby of the same time period?

Granted that savy marketing and "Gunmaker to the King" are part of the equation but the scarcity of the fewer guns produced by American masters will drive the prices after those gents have passed to their greater rewards.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Mike 378:

Show me a modern rifle that will with the wink of an eye sell for 70 or 80 K US, rough bolt and all?

If I recall correctly, the David Miller Company Leopard Rifle sold for $201,000.00. It took more than the blink of an eye though. I think the auction lasted about 15 minutes.

If the people who have Model 70 Super Grades in 375 for sale even get 70% of asking price I think very few rifles would equal them in ratio of sale price today Vs new price.

What I do find interesting with this Rigby is that $35000US will only get a new 375 from H&H with Deluxe wood and on a standard Mauser. Is/was Rigby the shit end as compared to H&H and Purdey?

I tend to agree that the Echols and Miller names will not last. For that to happen the gun needs be made by someone or company where the brand is widepsread or their is some special timimg associated with the product.

But the quality of this Rigby I guess fits in with its price when new. At best, 2 stages beyond a CZ in 416 or 375.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Tom Burgess forgot more about fine metalwork that those old Brits ever knew AD

I don't think so. I was just with him in his shop for a 3 hour visit last week, and I don't think he has forgotten anything whatsoever about fine gunmaking. Some of his work (especially his scope rings) is incredible, and certainly as fine or finer than it ever was.

Tigergate

My point is that their may have been gunmakers in the Nineteenth Century that were every bit as good, or better, than the British Houses.

But their names have been forgotten. The same will befall the makers you listed.

Winchester and Remington and Colt will live on because people know who they are and they will know in 150 years as well. Why is a mint Colt First series worth 1000 times it's original selling price while a mint Hopkins and Allen is not? Longevity.

A David Miller Rifle sells for what, $25000.00? Do you think that a H&H built in 1925 for the equivalent amount wouldn't be as good or better in workmanship and function?

Can the best US maker build a rifle better than the best British maker? Better than the best European maker? If price is any indication evidently not.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Mike 378:

Show me a modern rifle that will with the wink of an eye sell for 70 or 80 K US, rough bolt and all?

If I recall correctly, the David Miller Company Leopard Rifle sold for $201,000.00. It took more than the blink of an eye though. I think the auction lasted about 15 minutes.

The price some drunk paid for a rifle while trying to impress his friends is not the true value. I think I heard it was for sale for $65,000 a couple of years ago. Don't forget this was when you could deduct 100% of the value paid for an item from a 501c-3 auction. A free rifle to one wealthy enough.

quote:

Don't forget this was when you could deduct 100% of the value paid for an item from a 501c-3 auction. A free rifle to one wealthy enough.

Does that mean the price of the rifle was a tax deduction and his taxable income was reduced by that rifle price. If so, then depending on US tax rates that would mean he still paid $100,000US plus for the rifle?

How would a new bolt action from H&H or Purdey compare to that Rigby? Would it be as rough or better made.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

quote:

Don't forget this was when you could deduct 100% of the value paid for an item from a 501c-3 auction. A free rifle to one wealthy enough.

Does that mean the price of the rifle was a tax deduction and his taxable income was reduced by that rifle price. If so, then depending on US tax rates that would mean he still paid $100,000US plus for the rifle?

How would a new bolt action from H&H or Purdey compare to that Rigby? Would it be as rough or better made.

Mike

Mike

The tax rates and deductions in 1986 were different than now. He basically donated the money to a charity, SCI, instead of donating to another charity, The US Government.

Don't assume that the rifle is rough from a couple of pictures. If it is as new than I doubt if it is rough. The Brits learned how to make rifles and make them feed long before our current crop of smiths were born.

Mickey

I am not assuming the rifle is rough in terms of feeding etc but its finish and especially the front end of the bolt.

With the tax, are you saying that if he did not pay $201000 to SCI he would have had to pay $201000 in tax?

Mike

.

All must agree it is a very fine rifle!
I would have to sell alot of toys to pay for that one.

Alf,

Thanks for that info.

Do you know what the action (bolt) is that Purdey say is their own action.

Mike

Granite mountain DbleSqreBridge Magnum action..........3000
custom barrel/integral rib,integ.foresight,integ.barrelband.....2000
custom stockwork.........................4000
stockblank...............................1000

total: $10,000

quote:

I tend to agree that the Echols and Miller names will not last.

I have to disagree with that. Quality stands above all, time will not diminish there value, and will likely increase their legend. There are plenty of gunmakers both American and European who were small players in the past and whose guns bring very nice prices today. Let's hang around a hundred years and find out who is right...whaddya say?

Those names will last just as long as someone like Al Biesen, Dale Goens, and Monte Kennedy -- perhaps longer, since they build better rifles.

AD

I didn't mean the names would not last in that sense; I meant that they would not father a contiuing business under that name that produce the same quality for 150 years like the English houses of Holland's or Purdy.

Anglo rifles "conjure images from another age....when intrepid sportsmen traveled to the far corners of the globe to pursue the world's most dangerous game...of cape buffalo with wicked, double-curved horns. Of acacia trees and thornbush, and Kilimanjaros' cloudy crown. Of the Indian forest, fresh pug marks, a creaky machan, and great, striped cats in the dappled shade."
So, what do Echols or Miller rifles conjure?

Magnum Mauser with Krupp steel barrels? I think we need a BIG Schuler here (these rifles were made for Schuler by Sempert & Krieghoff)!

Mickey, your idea that no new accuracy tricks have been learned in the last fifty years is not true at all -- not even close to true. Today's top barrels are much better and more consistent, action blueprinting was not even fully understood fifty years ago, let alone carried out as it is today, not to mention bedding, crowning, etc., etc.

AD

The comment that Purdey's did not/does not build bolt action rifles is not factually correct; they did and do so and I have seen and handled such rifles. The British bolt action rifles of the "Glorious Days of the Raj" were NOT considered "best" guns, but, were using guns for ordinary folks. I have handled and shot quite a number of these belonging to friends here and owned a couple of them as well....which I sold because they were NOT particularly impressive.

British guns are and have been ridiculously over-priced for years as wealthy Americans have striven for some perceived form of social status since WWII by collecting them. This has inflated the prices to the point of absurdity, but, if someone wants to pay the price of a new pickup 4x4 for a servicable but relatively crude rifle, that's free enterprise!

I am not biased in favour of national origin(s) of firearms, I base my opinions on what I have
seen during my time in hunting/bush activities and consider that certain bolt rifles made during the 1950s were/are the finest hunting rifles ever made inn terms of performance and dollar value. I own and use Brno-ZG-47, 21H and FN based factory sporters as well as P-64 Mod. 70s and consider these, especially the ZG-47s and the older FN single-cut sporters to be the best hunting rifles I have ever seen or used.

I also think that the finest custom rifles today are made in the USA although Germany produces a couple of rifles I would love to own.

.

quote:

kutenay: certain bolt rifles made during the 1950s were/are the finest hunting rifles ever made inn terms of performance and dollar value. I own and use Brno-ZG-47, 21H and FN based factory sporters as well as P-64 Mod. 70s and consider these, especially the ZG-47s and the older FN single-cut sporters to be the best hunting rifles I have ever seen or used.

I also think that the finest custom rifles today are made in the USA although Germany produces a couple of rifles I would love to own.

Precisely.