"Magnificent Original Rigby 416 built during the Golden Era of British gun making. Shipped to Von Lengerke and Antoine, Chicago in

1925. Ledger records document all details of this amazing rifle including the Rigby patented bolt peep sight. This rifle appears

to be UNFIRED since regulation; note picture of boltface. No harrowing tales of African adventure here.

Just condition, condition, cond.... Perfect for someone who wants the best there is.


Maker John Rigby - London
Gauge/Caliber 416 Rigby
Barrels 25"
Rib 1/4 with 1S & 2F
Engraving n/a
Action Magnum Mauser
Stock English Walnut
Butt Recoil pad
L.O.P. 14 1/4"
Weight 11 lbs
Stock Dimensions n/a
Price $35,000.00

Click on thumbnail for larger picture




Terms Of Sale


Phone: 608-742-8236

schwandt2@charter.net

under bolt guns

That rifle is a nice collector's item, but as a hunting rifle it's way over-priced and not nearly as good as a top American-made custom bolt gun. British magazine rifles are really overrated........

The best buy on that website is a fine custom Mauser in 338 Win. Mag. with metalwork by Tom Burgess and a stock by Earl Milliron. THAT is a first-class rifle, and at $3500, it's a much better buy than the Rigby.

AD

Allen,

I went there to look at this one and saw that same rifle, it is what got my attention, at 3500 bucks that is a steal. Too bad I never have 3500 bucks extra!

Red

That Rigby is a spectacular rifle.

Looking at it, in brand new condition, is like traveling back in time.

Thanks for posting that link.

Burgess & Milliron .338 and Leonard Mews .300 H&H are truely value priced at $3,500 each. The replacement value for these rifles have got to be very close to $5,000 + if not more.

I would have picked up both of them if I were in the market.

Harris

.

ALF you are right. That rifle is worth $35,000 to a collector but let's face it that rifle may never see the plains of Africa. If it hasn't been shot in 80 years then shooting it now would be a crime in my book. Same as tearing the wrapper off a first edition spiderman comic or playing catch with Babe Ruth's autographed ball.
Harris

A rediculous price for a rifle? Is it over priced?
Time will shew.

To say that Rigby rifles are over rated would be akin to saying that Piccaso is an over rated artist.
I do agree that some bolt rifles made in America are at least as good, if not better, as any made elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Harris:
shooting it now would be a crime

Funny, I was thinking the opposite. Were I Rigby I wouldn't have sold this rifle to a guy who wasn't planning to hunt with it. Further, if I were the current seller, I would make a purchaser swear on a stack of bibles that he/she was gonna shoot it at something big at least once. Personally, I like Ferrari's attitude of "No, we won't sell you that car...you must lease it, prove to us that you actually drive it and THEN can you own it outright". Same system should hold for top quality rifles.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

This is two different things. The Rigby is close to being a museum piece rather than an ordinary collector's piece and priced accordingly. Another 50 years and it will fully qualify.

Mike Schwandt is a very knowledgable seller of fine rifles. If he's setting the price as a collector's item, I expect he genuinely thinks he'll get it from some well heeled soul.

I bought my 470 NE field grade Searcy from him at a reasonable but fair price ... after checking his references pretty thoroughly.

My dealing with him went extremely well. I am tickled to death with the Searcy.

quote:

A Rigby or Jeffery at the time of their original manufacture sold for less than 50 pounds

Alf,

Looking at the rifle it is very basic and rough. Look at the bolt face area. I don't think you would see that sort of junk come out of the likes of Echols or David Miller.

Mike

as far as rarity goes, a good find.
as far as build quality,we know we can do much better, depends what you value.
would I pay it ? NO. But I am sure some sucker will. Nice to see one though. Ask the dealer to give you a written guarantee for a buy back price, and you will soon find out the confidence that he has placed on its value.
To me its worth about 12000 as a collectors piece,until the novelty wore off that is.Then I would probably say 8000.

At the Reno ACGG this year,Jerry Fisher had a takedown 416Rigby on a Granite Mountain Magnum acton for $20,000.

quote:

Woodjack: At the Reno ACGG this year,Jerry Fisher had a takedown 416Rigby on a Granite Mountain Magnum acton for $20,000.

Here it is before it was completed (middle):

I have to say that in my opinnion I would rather have a good Rigby bolt gun than any US Custom rifle...They fit me, they function 100% and the irons are usually sighted in..They work.

.

In terms of barrels, chambering, fit, finish, bedding, quality and workmanship, top American makers like David Miller, Echols, Gene Simillion, and Steven Heilmann can and do build rifles that are far superior to any of the old British magazine rifles. There really isn't any comparison other than the mystique of things British. But icons die hard, that much I know.......

AD

Show me a modern rifle that will with the wink of an eye sell for 70 or 80 K US, rough bolt and all !

Alf, agree completely. Don't get me wrong, I think the H&H and Purdey thing is wonderful. In fact I have at different times used the H&H site and the clothing section to turn around some people that were a bit "anti gun". One of those people is the woman I am involved with. Could have been a costly mistake

All I am saying is not let's confuse the atmosphere that goes with those rifles with quality and function.

The facts are that a Wby Mark V or HS Precision in 416 Wby (or 416 Rigby) will feed ammo that the Rigby will not feed. If case rims or extractor groove dimensions are wrong it will not matter. Sure, Wby (with the 378 based calibres) and HS Precision cheat with Push Feed and in line feed.

I would also be the first to say that nothing looks better or warms the heart more than watching a Mauser based action cycling cartridges.

As to Wby they will go on producing rifles in the 1000s and Remington will go on producing rifles in the 100s of 1000s.

Will Weatherby be remembered? Of course!!!! 99.999% of shooters still see the 460 Wby as the most powerful. Echols and Miller's favourite chamberings are the 300 Wby. Most shooters and 100% of non shooters think a Custom Shop Wby will cost 4 times an H&H bolt gun when of course the reverse is the case.

But I love both of 'em. If I had the cheque book with sufficient fuel to either have the 505 from Purdey or H&H or Weatherby turned loose on a 378....including the Birds Eye Maple etc....it would be hard decision.

As a side note, to get Weatherby to do anything that is not Claro or French Walnut will cost a fortune.

Mike

quote:

The geatest honour of all is that today after more than a hundred and 20 odd years of service we still measure standard of function to Mauser and his 98........... We will have to see if Mr. Weatherby and his would be able to do the same?

Alf,

Weatherby is 60 years old so is half way there

Mike

I would not dare to say the Rigby is not a fine piece of work. But I am the kind of person that goes for the replica Cobra over the original. The original Cobra, Shelby's AC bristol body with Ford power plant, was an asphalt chewing, testosterone spewing monster. But the replicas can look identical, have better components, better finish and features, and cost a heck of a lot less.

I'd love to have a Rigby, and there are some that Alf has that I would commit crimes for, but of these two I'd go with the 338 and with the rest of the money pay for some good hunting (and something for the wife so she didn't kill me! )

It is absolutely correct that resale value is not nearly the same. If you commission a custom gun I don't think reselling it should be in your mind, otherwise it can't be justified I wouldn't be able to make a good investment on this Rigby anyways, I'd just have to shoot it!

Red

IMHO, the non-traditionalist, anti-historicist, godless, commie bastards who degrade the Rigby are little different from those who want to demolish Fenway Park.

Over my dead body.

quote:

I would not dare to say the Rigby is not a fine piece of work.

Red,

You are joking.

That rifle is about one stage beyond a CZ 416 Rigby. Would you like to pay $3000US for a rifle with a bolt like that Rigby.

Look at the bevel on the extractor. It looks like it was done by a blind man using an angle grinder.

Mike

Mike,

I must decline your offer to invest in grade D nonsense.

But do feel free to spend your bucks on modern "improvements" on the Rigby-Mauser system until your wallet will yield no more.

I hear Enron is a growth stock opportunity!

MR

Investment return is a separate issue. Rifle desirability is a separate issue.

But I know you would not be happy to spend $5000US on a rifle and get a heap a shit like that Rigby.

Having said that..would I like to own that Rigby..Yes...If had the money to spend would I buy it..Yes although I tend to see Rigby under the Purdey and H&H. However, my views there could be due to lack of information and perhaps Alf will either tell me my views are wrong or they are right.

But I would also like to own the gun Wyatt Earp used.

The gun is in keeping with its price at the time when it was new. It is about one stage beyond a CZ in 416 Rigby....2 stages beyond at best. For workanship an Echols or Miller rifle or a gun from Australia's counterparts of Echols and Miller will piss all over it. For function, an HS Precision in 416 will shit all over all it.

Mike

Well my friend, all I will say is that certitude is not the test of certainty, not on this or on any other subject.

Or, put another way, how many more elephants have Rigbys killed than the products of Echols, or Miller, or Australia's counterparts of Echols or Miller, or (pause please for the laugh) the products of HS Precision?

Who did Pondoro, Karamojo, Blunt, Selby and a host of others rely upon to build their bespoke and even off the bloody British shelf rifles? Could it have been John Rigby & Co.?

Just stop with the nonsense and pay tribute where you need to pay it.

As to your unfortunate and repeated references to bodily functions, I might suggest any number of products available at your local chemist.

.

quote:

Or, put another way, how many more elephants have Rigbys killed than the products of Echols, or Miller, or Australia's counterparts of Echols or Miller, or (pause please for the laugh) the products of HS Precision?

MR,

On that basis the SMLE 303 is the choice or at least one of the prime choices. Are you saying the 303 and 308 are much better elephant and buffalo guns because the 303 and 308 have killed so much more?

But do you think the front end of the bolt on that Rigby shows high quality?

Mike

What I'm trying to understand is what it is about a Mk V Weatherby that you like ?

Alf,

I have been a very harsh critic of the Mark V action. 500 grains will support that. In his criticism of the Mark V he missed the main problem areas and I elaborated on them for him.

What I do like about Weatherby is the whole package and especially dealing with their custom shop. The "whole package" even includes the importers of Wbys to Australia who have been doing it for 25 years or more. I love the look of Wbys but equally like the look of the English rifles and also the Ryan Breeding rifles.

My criticism of the Why Mark V would and does go much deeper than yours. For example, from your posting:

The first one in particular was made by SAUER in Germany, it was a full on Lazermark type rifle with all the trimmings, but the gun lacked true "character"

The Lazermark does not come out of the Wby Custom Shop. Secondly, your criticism is based on "how you like or dislike the rifle" whereas my criticism goes much deeper.

And....It is in fact they are cheap mass production pieces that do not even come from the Weatherby factory. I could be wrong but I think HS Precision is about the only place that makes the whole gun. Did Rigby make the action in the illustrated rifle in the opening post?

As to your general comments on Weatherbys and Africa, surely much of this is personal issues. I think Saeed's main PH and friend Roy Vincent uses a Mark V in 416 Wby as his back up rifle.

As a side note, same question to you as to MR....do you think the front end of that bolt shows high quality.

Mike

Alf,

PS,

Engraving on Wbys is not done by machine. Probably the engraving would be better if it was done by machine...but that is another issue.

But let's be accurate as possible.

Mike

.

.

Pardon me from being a killjoy, but must we beat the Weatherby horse 'till it falls apart? This began as a Rigby discussion afterall...

Mike likes his techno-rifles and is content with them. The rest of us seem to err to the side of traditional Mauser based rifles.

Can we agree to disagree here and leave it at that?

Tex

Tex

The only thing a couple of us have said is that the rifle is low quality. HS Precision and Weatherby is just a side note that has popped up.

One of the first posters on this thread...Allen Day...is a very strong supporter of CRF and both M70 and Mauser. But I think he would be the first person to tell you that if he got a rifle from Echols or Miller that was as low quality as that Rigby....then his blood pressure would rise to levels not previously seen by doctors.


The Rigby illustrated is at best 2 stages beyond a CZ in 416...and that is being generous.

Look at the front end of the bolt. This rifle is rough gear. Alf covered it when he said they only cost 50 pounds new.

Mike

quote:

Mike:

PS im yanking your chain, off course it has to do with personal likes and dislikes...... thank the Man for that cause heaven forbid if evryone suddenly got the hots for those old guns, just think how expensive they would then get.

Alf,

I realise that....but one must take the opportunity to set the facts right

But I do like Woodjack's posting......"Ask the dealer to give you a written guarantee for a buy back price, and you will soon find out the confidence that he has placed on its value."

Mike

I don't see any point in paying "tribute where it is due", when in my estimate tribute is NOT due. Those old British rifles aren't sacred cows, and I don't care what Bell or any of the other old timers carried. Jim Bridger hunted with a Hawken rifle, so what? Go ahead and spend $33K on that Rigby, then see how much you can get out of it after you've taken delivery..........

I do believe in calling a spade a spade, and not only can you get a top-flight, American-built custom rifle fabricated for way less than that Rigby, you'll have a much better rifle as well. You can also buy a high-end American custom job second-hand for far less than retail, and achieve and even better buy, as witness by that Burgess/Milliron 338. And by comparison, Tom Burgess forgot more about fine metalwork that those old Brits ever knew, and Milliron not only carved a superior stock dimensionally with better workmakship throughout, but he finished then to stand up to just about anything. The comparisions are ridiculous, and the value represented is even more ridiculous.............

AD

So is the value of a Piccaso for that matter. But this about markets, not technical comparisons. Some day soon that rifle will sell because the market is there for it. And one day after that, someone will report a capital gain on it because the market will grow enough to profit on it, just like any other collectble.

That Rigby rifle is a nice one!!.

I wouldn`t mind owing that thing, but it`s out of my league financially wise. I would be afraid that something might happen to it!.

it`s a collectors item for sure, not a working gun for hard use, as it was originally made for!.

Let's see, the way I figure it the Rigby @ $35,000 or Trophy fees for 17.5 tuskless, cow or PAC elephants = $35,000. No choice for me.
I would much rather have the WR 450/400 for $27,000.

465H&H

It is ridiculas to compare a Rigby, Holland and Holland, Westley Richards to a Echols, Hielman rifle...They are two seperate inities...

I will take the English gun every time because they all seem to fit me, they never jam, they shoot good, just like a Echols rifles will, and he is the best of todays gun makers IMO and his guns are as good or better than a high dollar English gun...but re sale today goes to the English gun, and it can be all beat to hell and still fetch a fantastic price, thus a better investment even after hard use..Nostalgia sells like it or not..I like it, I like to hold an old English gun and think of its days in Africa and the thousands of elephant is slew, feel the warm Circassian walnut and wish I'd been there..I truly feel sorry for anyone that cannot have that experience...To hold a new cold piece of custom gun in my hand is like holding a friggen shovel!! now tell me what visions pop up with a friggen shovel?

I have a great shovel Ray, fiberglass handle, I have had occasion to put my 260lbs. against it and haven't snapped it yet. but it IS UGLY.

The British rifles are great historic pieces, just like I said about the antique car. And there are things about some classic rifles that cannot be duplicated, lost bluing methods for instance. I think there is definitely a place for them. They will still function 100% and probably never give a problem, but you're saying that in the last 75 years there have been no advances in knowledge, metalurgy and machining that let todays bespoke makers do it just a bit better?

Nope, I am with Alan, the modern makers have the edge. They surely learned a lot from the pioneering work of the big British firms and have just taken that to another level. Without the Rigbys, W.R.s and H&H's there wouldn't be Simillions, Biesens, Burgesses and Echols, just like without Wright brothers there wouldn't be a Burt Ratan.

And I just can't believe that a modern custom builder can't make a rifle that feels the same to you as an original W.R., H&H et. al. The idea even makes me sad since that is what I would like, a modern version of a classic styled rifle. The Mauser model A to be specific (thanks again Alf for the pics way back when).

Red
PS
there are sadly a few lost methods of doing things like the bluing I mentioned. This was due from what I have heard from an unwillingness in the craftsman to pass on their secrets, thus hurting the trade. I think that is part of the goal of the ACGG, to share the techniques and "trade secrets" so that this loss of valuable methods doesn't continue.