Hello, new here but I thought I would try and use some of your guys experience. I have 3 M70 classic rifles, 2 of which are safari express. One is a stainless classic .375, the other two are SE in .375 and .416 rem. mag. I am looking for expertice and first hand experience in mounting, and types of DG scopes you have mounted on these rifles. I have them all with the same QD scope mounts (leupold) so I can swap them and use them on each rifle as I find it necessary. I have a leupold 1.75x6 mounted in low rings, as it willl fit. Then I have a trijicon 1.25x4 in medium rings, as that is what will fit.

I have a swarovski Z6 1-6 that I was thinking of mounting. The problems I am finding with this scope are many. Although the glass is great, the size and mass of the scope are proving unusable. You have to mount it high to fit the rifle and not have it too far back. I like my scopes low and forward with mucho eye relief. I need feedback on scope size and mounts, as I am wondering if the 6x32 screws are adequate, or should I swap to 8x40? The recoil of the .416 will dictate possibly a lighter scope, bigger screws, or both.

What type of scopes are you using on these rifle, what type mounts and screws, and how are they holding up?

I also picked up a mauser .458 wm and will be having the same questions before mounting up. Any feedback will be appreciated.

My requirements are:

quality glass, preferably illuminated reticle (#4 etc.)

low power variable magnification

be able to mount low as to be shootable with a good cheek weld on a straight combed stock

be reliable with heavy recoil

Mounts looking at warne, talley, leupold

glass looking at trijicon, leupold, zeiss, swarovski and the new nikon african illuminated

more questions as they come up.

Thanks!

id go wih leupold 1.5-6 on 416
great scope in brush, lots of eye relief
i did have the 6x48 redone to8x40
i use weaver mounts and rings
comes back to zero never had them fail but had problems w lots of other brands

Using the Leupolds you could switch between rifles easily and use low mounts. I use the 1.5x5, 2x8, and 1.75x6 interchangably between my model 70s in 270, 30-06, 375, 458 and 470 Capstick. I know that everyone loves the #4, but I personally prefer the Heavy Dulplex for quick upclose work. Good shooting!

gunslinger

It certainly looks like to me you are very well on your way with some really good setup on your Winchesters. First and foremost you have the right rifles, Winchester M70s!

I use exclusively Leupold QRW rings and bases on all my Winchesters. I switch scopes back and forth doing test work, sometimes daily. I have been on a scope testing mission for a few months now. With your cartridges, 375 and 416, you are not going to have hardly any issues at all with breaking or damaging scopes because of recoil. It is imperative the scope be mounted low as possible and have lot's of eye relief, and very important to have lot's of field of view when things are close, 10yds and in. You are very astute already on keeping things as small and low as possible.

Any 30mm tube is going to be heavy, and it's going to have to mount higher, and they are bigger, so for me that knocks those out of the running right off.

Both cartridges you have are very versatile, your 1.75X6 Leupold is exactly the same scope I have chosen for my various 416s, a little more reach on longer shots, but still lot's of eye relief, and lot's of field of view when things are close.

I have 20 some odd 1X4, 1.5X5, 1.75X6 Leupolds currently, another 15 plus larger versions, 2.5X8 plus. Over the last few years in particular to my 50 B&M rifles I have had some real issues with the 1.5X5 VX3. In one 18 month period I sent 13 of these back to the factory for repairs, all of which had been on the 50s at one time or another, and busted on the 50s. Now, it was the exact same issue nearly each and every time, one could be shooting, and watch it explode inside, or that was the appearance. What happened was that focus would go completely out above 3X, and it rattled like a baby rattle when you take it off. Now one point to make, below 3X they all came clear again, and NEVER-Not Once, Lost POI. In fact one busted scope I kept on for a long time doing test work at 25 yds, it was never an issue below 3X, but I would not have trusted that in the field of course.

Very recently I sent back 3 VX3s for the same issue. I asked Leupold to trade those for 1X4 VX2s, but put the heavy cross hairs in for me. They did that. Reason, I have yet to bust a 1X4 VX2. Now, I don't claim a VX2 is better on the 50 B&M, as it is hard to keep up with which scope was on what rifles, for how long and how many shots. I only had about 3-4 VX2s, but I know I have never had to send one for repairs. So we will see how these hold up. I have had the 1.5X5 on various 458s, 416s, and so forth and never ever had an issue, just something about that 50 B&M that hammers them.

I am on a scope testing mission right now, but that takes a lot of time. I researched the field of views (which is a big thing to me), eye relief, and actual size of several scopes recently. I bought a little 1X4 Weaver--not enough eye relief for bigger guns, and it's a little short on some other things too. Great size, and great field of view, but it's not one I would take to the field on anything serious. Below a comparison to a leupold, I think 1X4.


I also have the same trijicon 1X4 that you are talking about too. It's very close in eye relief and field of view, and seems to be a good scope so far. The only real issue I have with it is that I have to turn around the bases to get it to fit on my rifles, which means that if I have other scopes set up standard, they won't just go on that rifle without changing the position of the rings. It has held up well, but then again I have not used it that much either.

At the same time, only a couple of months ago, I got one of the Nikon African whatever you call it. I think it's 1X4 also. It has a great field of view, lot's of eye relief, clear, I really like it a lot in many ways. While is is about the same length of the Leupolds, it has this big eye piece on the ass end of it that is just out of place. I think it's a tad heavier than the leupolds too.



The quality of the Nikon is very good, I like a lot of things about it, but not that big eye piece!

In my search for a scope that even I can't bust I am trying out the 1X4 Leupold Shotgun scope on the 50s and on a 500 MDM right now. They come with heavy cross hairs, and one comes with what they call a "Turkey Plex", round circle in the middle of a duplex, of course I had to see what that was all about, and it was in a neat color I thought would look good on one of my 50s, the maple stock. So I ordered 3 of these to see how they hold up. They are VX1s, friction elevation and windage. At $199.00 each one can get two for the price of 1 VX3. Of course, $$ is not the important issue here by any stretch. I have these on the 50s, I consider one of these about as good as it gets for a fighting, DGR, so things are going to be close-inside 50 yds anyway. While they are clear, they are working, they are still not a 1X4 or 1.5X5. But so far I am very pleased with this little scope, and I would use it in the field. I have not busted it yet, and now probably about 200 rounds through the one rifle currently.



Again, I think you have a good choice for what you are talking about, 1.75X6 Leupold VX3. I would also think of the 2X7 VX2, I can't tell much difference in the two. I used the VX2 on a hunt in Tanzania in 2005 on a Winchester M70 416 Remington, and it did very well for me, and I have never busted one either.

The very best advice I can give you is this. Regardless of the exact scope you choose for these rifles--Buy two of them once you are settled. Set both of them up on the rifle, sighted in, ready to go. Take both scopes, one set up on the rifle, the other RTG (ready to go) should you break the one on the gun, on a hunting trip! I always have a spare set up for the rifle I am using. Recently a friend of mine took this advice. He had his spare scope set up RTG. They went out looking for buffalo, just got off the road, he tripped, fell down on his scope. Busted the windage cap off, and done some more damage to it as I recall. Not all that far from camp, he had the PH go back, he switched scopes then and there, just a few minutes, and carried on with the hunt, not loosing any time at all to speak of. Things happen, have two scopes set up.

Second bit of business is buy one of those torque screwdrivers, the wheeler. Leupold recommends 23 in lbs. Well that won't do on the bigger bores, I tried 25 with the 458 and the 50s, and the scope would slip after a few rounds, I upped it to 28 and they have been good to go, 28-30. This is more important than one thinks, it keeps you from putting so much pressure on the tube by being too tight, and if they are too tight during recoil you are adding to that pressure, and things bust a lot quicker that way.

Another thing, honestly you do not need to be concerned about the 6X30 screws, they are plenty adequate. Early on I had everything done in the 8X40, I was convinced I needed that for the heavy recoil. About 7-8 yrs ago, I quit doing it, because it was just not easy at that moment, so I thought I would test it and find out! I have some fairly heavy recoilers, all are at 6X30 now, and has never, not once, not ever, been any issue at all. Never broke a screw, mount, nothing. And believe me, if anyone on the planet can break something, I can!

I use QRWs on everything. Now early on, I had so many rifles set up with this system for the last 11 yrs, that I was not inclined to try another system, talley for instance. I hear and believe that the Talley works and is great, so I stayed with the Leupold QRWs because I have over a 100 rifles set up on that system right now, so I am not very inclined to make a change unless I have a problem with something.

Hope this helps a bit, but from the sound of it, you are not a newbie and have some experience at this already! I think you will be able to make some very workable choices on your own!

Oh, and welcome to big bores! You are on the very best forum in all of AR. The rest are just wannabes!




Michael

quote:

Originally posted by idahoelk101:
Using the Leupolds you could switch between rifles easily and use low mounts. I use the 1.5x5, 2x8, and 1.75x6 interchangably between my model 70s in 270, 30-06, 375, 458 and 470 Capstick. I know that everyone loves the #4, but I personally prefer the Heavy Dulplex for quick upclose work. Good shooting!

idahoe

I do the exact same here with switching back to to.

I also like the heavy duplex best of all these days.

What sort of 470 Capstick you got???

Michael

Some great replies here, thanks!

I am understanding that you can use all the leupold low power scopes on low rings on these rifles? That is good to know, save me a buttload of time.

Strange about the VX3's breaking, something to be aware of.

That Nikon looks good, what ring height? Med?

I heard that it has a day visible reticle as well, unlike the leupold.

I like heavy duplex as well, actually haven't used a #4 yet, just thought that was what everyone uses

Sounds like the Z6 is not going to make the cut. Darn shame got a good deal on it

Maybe I will mess around with some mounts and see if I can get it to work.

Good deal on the mounting hole, less I have to do. How about on a .458 WM?

What about bedding the m70's? I have been told it is not worth it and the .375 shoots sun moa anyway.

Thanks again!

Gunslinger

I use low QRW Rings with the 1.75X6 and all the 1X4s and 1.5X5s.

No, you need not worry with the 1.5X5 on a 416 Remington, not enough recoil to be of concern. Never busted one on a 416 anything.

I am using the same low QRWs on the Nikon.

Not sure about day vis, mine is #4 I think.

Much prefer heavy duplex to anything.

My 500 MDM and 50 B&M, have much more recoil than any 458 Win, keep the 6X30 holes, don't worry about it.

Shoot and keep the M70s the way they come in the box, don't have to do a thing with them!

Welcome
Michael

Outstanding!I have ended up with the QR original mount. Not sure if there is enough ring area to clamp the scopes. since I have the setup on two rifles so far (one came with them) I guess I can use them and see if they hold. That would be my cheap first option. The other is to ditch them and go QRW.

Any comments on the swaro Z6? I bought some high ring I can see if they will fit otherwise I can sell and buy several leupolds.

not to confident, but we will see..........

No need to switch the QR to QRW. I've used the QRs exclusively on all my rifles for over 15 years and never had an issue. They are on my .375, .416 and other large bores. No Need to waste $$$.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Outstanding!I have ended up with the QR original mount. Not sure if there is enough ring area to clamp the scopes. since I have the setup on two rifles so far (one came with them) I guess I can use them and see if they hold. That would be my cheap first option. The other is to ditch them and go QRW.

Any comments on the swaro Z6? I bought some high ring I can see if they will fit otherwise I can sell and buy several leupolds.

not to confident, but we will see..........

Gunslinger

Personally I don't care for the QR system, but since you have them, keep them and shoot the guns. No issues, leave them. I have only had experience with two sets of those, my friends, not mine, one broke? So.......I really don't know.

No experience with a Z6, those are 30MM?

You will be fine, you were already very much moving in the right direction. No worries!

Michael

I have a Vari-XIII 1.75x6 heavy duplex on my M70 stainless .375 H&H in talley low rings. I had another identical .375 and had the same scope mounted in leupold QR rings. I much prefer the talleys mainly because the QR bases overhang the ejection port at the rear. It didn't cause any problems but I didn't like it. My base holes are 8-40, maybe not necessary but it sure doesn't hurt. If I had the swaro Z6 you have it would be on the rifle instead of the leupold, no question. I don't particularly like the heavy duplex reticle, I prefer a #4 myself. I'm also not a subscriber to the idea that you need to mount a scope as low as possible, a higher scope is just fine with me. The safari classic stock has such a high comb that you almost need medium rings to line up your eye with the scope, the high comb also makes the open sights pretty much unusable. I'd forget about the low mount obsession and put the swaro on there.

Take a look at the Nightforce 1x4 scope. It is hell for stout with an illuminated reticle. The optic Zone has some of the discontinued 2.5x10 Nightforce straight tubes on closeout. It would be a perfect scope on a 375. They have replaced it with a model with a bell front tube but I really like the older straight tubed model. They are a little heavy but you aren't talking a mountain rifle.
IMHO 8/40 screws are the way to go. I also prefer Talley mounts. I guess I'm a pessimist but I always plan on the worst.

And by the way, Gunslinger...welcome aboard!!!

Z6 ought to be just peaches for your .375s.

I have a PH 1.5-6 on one of mine and love it.

For your .416, a VX-7 of the same species would do you well. It does for me.

I have both 8x40s and 6x32s on my big bores. Got the 8x40s because of the hype.

The 6s have not failed.

I use Talleys.

Thanks for more input. I went to cabelas and got some 30mm high rings and threw the Z6 on the .375 to check fit. By the way, the 30mm QR rings are twice as beefy as the 1" rings and have a 8x40 screws. Way beef no problem there. Very impressed. and cheap

The Z6 went right on looks great. I may take it back and get the z6 illuminated extended eye relief, I can get a good deal on those, has day visible illumination and way heavier reticule. With the magnum mounts I can get the scope forward and use the extra eye relief. But honestly 3.7" should be enough for up to a .416 I would assume. If I stay with this scope I can go med height, so many decisions but I was sceptical about the Z6, as I had it sitting around for a year and never thought it would work. I eat my words.

Why the VX-7? I am sure those are nice scopes. Was looking at the PH saw a used on for a decent price 1.5-6.

I guess a guy can't go wrong with a swaro, leupold and a trijicon

Have not bought mounts for my .416 as it has been sitting unfired for 5 years since new haven closed (bought it just because they were closing-knew I would need it someday ), waiting for the right time. Looks like the QR will work and save me some there.

Luckily I picked up all this stuff when I made money, now not so much at least I have it and now can start planning trips to use them as intended.

Not on the coues deer hunt this month I'm pretty sure!

Swarovski 1-6x24 EER (extended eye relief) with a CD reticle (inner circle with central dot), non-illuminated version, works great on my .505 Gibbs.

It is the only big-name (Swarovski, S&B, Zeiss) scope to have EER; all other scopes from the big-3 have standard 3.5-3.8in eye relief; the above Swarovski has 4.75in, a necessity on a Gibbs!

I have had a problem with those Leupold QWR rings. They can scratch the scope when you snap them on. Is there some trick to prevent that or a tool?

If you are not familiar, the top ring goes more than 180 degree around and has to be snapped over the scope.

I have several of the QRW's on other rifles,I have just had to shove them over. Thae warne or talley or QR alleviate the issue completely

Yes I am seriously contemplating trading mine in and getting the illuminated EER scope. Weighs the same, has a wider field of view, 1" more eye relief and better reticule. I use red dots competively shooting so it would be very similar there with the daylight red dot

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:
Swarovski 1-6x24 EER (extended eye relief) with a CD reticle (inner circle with central dot), non-illuminated version, works great on my .505 Gibbs.

It is the only big-name (Swarovski, S&B, Zeiss) scope to have EER; all other scopes from the big-3 have standard 3.5-3.8in eye relief; the above Swarovski has 4.75in, a necessity on a Gibbs!

quote:

1" more eye relief

At some point the eye relief is useless, if you cannot mount the scope more forward. Any suggestion on mounting to take advantage of those scopes with 5 inch or more eye relief?

The leupold QR magnum mount for the M70 puts the scope ring about 2" farther forward on the rear base. It will work perfect with this scope with high rings

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I have had a problem with those Leupold QWR rings. They can scratch the scope when you snap them on. Is there some trick to prevent that or a tool?

If you are not familiar, the top ring goes more than 180 degree around and has to be snapped over the scope.

Fourbore

You know the little torque wrenches that come with Leupold rings and bases? Take two of those on the Top QRW Ring, one on each side in the screw hole, press together to open the ring, and place it right over the top of the scope--No Scratching or snapping.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

quote:

1" more eye relief

At some point the eye relief is useless, if you cannot mount the scope more forward. Any suggestion on mounting to take advantage of those scopes with 5 inch or more eye relief?

With a 14in length of pull (average on most big bore stocks), and a normal head-up position (assuming the scope is mounted as low as possible, achievable with a straight-tube scope), then a 4.75in eye-relief is achievable.

Haha thanks for that info. Should thought of thet myself.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I have had a problem with those Leupold QWR rings. They can scratch the scope when you snap them on. Is there some trick to prevent that or a tool?

If you are not familiar, the top ring goes more than 180 degree around and has to be snapped over the scope.

Fourbore

You know the little torque wrenches that come with Leupold rings and bases? Take two of those on the Top QRW Ring, one on each side in the screw hole, press together to open the ring, and place it right over the top of the scope--No Scratching or snapping.

Michael

[/IMG] [/IMG]

quote:

Fourbore

You know the little torque wrenches that come with Leupold rings and bases? Take two of those on the Top QRW Ring, one on each side in the screw hole, press together to open the ring, and place it right over the top of the scope--No Scratching or snapping.

Michael

Good idea, thank you Michael458.

I would like to buy one Nikon Monarch African for my Ceska 458 Lott. I think that this scope is enough good to this big bore.

Oscar.

Having trouble figuring how to post pics. I have the setups squared away I think. I have the Z6i in high 30mm rings, the trijicon in med 1" rings and the leupold in low 1" rings. All interchange perfectly on the 3 winchester's.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
[/IMG] [/IMG]

I was looking at that scope. Seems like a good setup

quote:

Originally posted by ovny:
I would like to buy one Nikon Monarch African for my Ceska 458 Lott. I think that this scope is enough good to this big bore.

Oscar.

idahoelk, how do you get the ring spacing to work on all the rifles? I assumed there were differences in the longer actions? That would be an ideal setup as I have other winchesters. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by idahoelk101:
Using the Leupolds you could switch between rifles easily and use low mounts. I use the 1.5x5, 2x8, and 1.75x6 interchangably between my model 70s in 270, 30-06, 375, 458 and 470 Capstick. I know that everyone loves the #4, but I personally prefer the Heavy Dulplex for quick upclose work. Good shooting!

3.5X10X44 Zeiss with Warne detachable mounts on Pre64 375 H&H

Nice rifle.

So how DID you post that? I need help

I guess I'm the designated curmudgeon for the day but I have to ask, why a scope on a DGR? Dangerous game isn't dangerous out at 200 yards. The whole point is to get as close as possible before pulling the trigger. That being the case, a peep sight will give all the accuracy you need give the very large size of the target. It's also a lot more sturdy than any scope and mount. I know that there will always be that reply, "well you need the extra light gathering in the dusk and dawn." Having been on five safaris in three countries, I've never gotten out to shoot before it was plenty light enough to see and anyone who tries for DG in the faint light of dusk is just asking for trouble! So again, why a scope at all?

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Nice rifle.

So how DID you post that? I need help

Thanks GS,

Pictures must first be stored on a website such as Photobucket (it's free) and then all you do is copy the photo link and paste it to the message page.

Got close to figuring out how to post


http://i1188.photobucket.com/a...eefles/rifles002.jpg



http://s1188.photobucket.com/a...urrent=rifles003.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/a...eefles/rifles003.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by idahoelk101:
Using the Leupolds you could switch between rifles easily and use low mounts. I use the 1.5x5, 2x8, and 1.75x6 interchangably between my model 70s in 270, 30-06, 375, 458 and 470 Capstick. I know that everyone loves the #4, but I personally prefer the Heavy Dulplex for quick upclose work. Good shooting!

idahoe

I do the exact same here with switching back to to.

I also like the heavy duplex best of all these days.

What sort of 470 Capstick you got???

Michael

Sorry for the slow response my Capstick is built on a former Model 70 stainless Rum action with a Pacnor barrel in the same profile as my factory 375. Bubinga stock cut by Roger Biesen and is matched to the 375. Little heavy in the wood but nice when you pull the trigger.

Well my plan was working great until just got my 3rd set or QR bases to put on my virgin M70 .416. I guess the hole spacing or something is just a tad bit off as I can't get the swarovski to attach and setach easily. Infact it gets jammed in so I have to loosen the rear ring screws and Iyt comes right off. The other 2 rifles all work with all the scopes, and 2 out of 3 work with the 416, just the one just won't go.

I would like them all to be interchangeable, what would someone recommend? Maybe I got a bad base? I guess it is not that big a deal but I was hoping that it would all work out without a hitch. An unreasonable assumption it seems....

In order to get mount spacing compatibility for a number of rifles, I made my own custom bases to fit QRW rings. I cut the bottoms to fit the contours of the actions (they were all Mausers), drilled and counter sinked them, and mounted them on the actions.

I then mounted the actions on a milling fixture and cut the tops and sides using a DRO to get the spacing correct.

Is not a trivial endeavor but now I do have six rifles from .264 Win Mag to .458 AR that can share scopes.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldsarge:
I guess I'm the designated curmudgeon for the day but I have to ask, why a scope on a DGR? Dangerous game isn't dangerous out at 200 yards. The whole point is to get as close as possible before pulling the trigger. That being the case, a peep sight will give all the accuracy you need give the very large size of the target. It's also a lot more sturdy than any scope and mount. I know that there will always be that reply, "well you need the extra light gathering in the dusk and dawn." Having been on five safaris in three countries, I've never gotten out to shoot before it was plenty light enough to see and anyone who tries for DG in the faint light of dusk is just asking for trouble! So again, why a scope at all?

Oldsarge,

You are being traditional ..... and we are losing traditions fast.
Those old fashioned Rigby and Jeffery peep-sights were the best looking.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=620106967#620106967

I don't like the modern styles of present day factory rifles either.
Like the Rigby, H&H and WR syles much better.
Don't like flat bolt knobs with checkering on either - it defeats the object.

Warrior

Scopes are pretty versatile on a rifle, any rifle. I shoot irons alot and have no real issue, but I shoot with a scope better. All my rifles have a detach system, so the option is there. And I just broke my 1st scope on a hunt, a swarovski.

It's all about shot placement and shooting well under stress at possibly the worst conditions, and to me a scope makes sense. I have some experience at this from competitive shooting.

But I like traditions as well and if a guy wants to run open, I have no problem with that. But you better practice alot. And a scope will beat irons everything else being equal every time, as far as fast and accurate shooting.