I know nothing about silencers, but would love to have a silenced big game rifle of mid caliber like a 257, 7x57 or 30-06, and perhaps a 22 auto pistol..

What is required by law, who makes and installs them, and how much do they tame the noise in the above calibers..What is the cost?

Inasmuch as most know my hearing sucks and it would be nice not to have to wear ear protection..

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I know nothing about silencers, but would love to have a silenced big game rifle of mid caliber like a 257, 7x57 or 30-06, and perhaps a 22 auto pistol..

What is required by law, who makes and installs them, and how much do they tame the noise in the above calibers..What is the cost?

Inasmuch as most know my hearing sucks and it would be nice not to have to wear ear protection..

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I can give you my take.

1) I would recommend going with a 7.62 cal rated suppressor based on the calibers you stated. you give up a little sound suppression but you gain versatility.

As for the .22, you will have to get a separate suppressor.

2) There are different routes you can go to go to legally obtain one, trust, or apply as an individual it's personal preference.

3) Installation depends on your host, and if the can is direct thread or has its own quick detach system. Assuming the host is threaded, just install the muzzle break / mount.

4) I use a 7.62 Surefire Socom RC2 on 5.56 up to .308 win. sound suppression is what I would call hearing safe. Makes a short barreled AR hearing safe and good for hunting situations. I do not use subsonic loads, I use standard loads since I use mine for hunting.

5) Cost is all over the board depending on make / model


I would add that I personally don't like suppressers on rifles with barrels 16" +. When you add 8" of suppressor to the end of the a 16" + barrel it becomes difficult to maneuver. Trying to get in and out of helicopters, vehicles, blinds, etc. is difficult with a long barrel. I prefer an SBR with a barrel length of 10 - 12" for most of my situations. I have a precision .308 with a 16" barrel for "reaching out" (200yards +).

Hope this helps

As above. also not an expert, but have a few.

One issue is that there are two sets of laws you need to be concerned about, and in some areas more...

State law- some states do not allow civilian possession. You need to know the rules where you are, and also know them for anyplace you take the thing. I don't know about locales (I assume some place like NYC is its own rule unto itself...)

Federal law.

They are NFA items. That means you have to submit a form to the ATF and pay for a tax stamp (and get it back from the feds) before you can take possession. Depending on the dealer you are buying from (it has to be a class III dealer) you may have to buy it before you can even send in for the stamp, and it will stay in the dealer's possession until you get the stamp. This can take over a year to get.

Most dealers that sell this stuff have everything you need to do the submission of the paperwork- including notarizing, etc. at their shop.

The silencers have various ratings. The higher end ones will be rated for full auto fire, and/or magnum loadings. A .30 suppressor might handle a .308, but not a .300 mag, and if it is not a full auto unit, will have some limit to how fast you shoot before it gets too hot (simplistically). Since you are talking hunting guns, you probably don't need to worry about Full auto rated- and the magnum rating may or may not be important- but you need to decide. Really, the difference is weight and cost (if weight is reduced by using special materials).

The feds have somewhat discouraged using a trust compared to what it used to be (every item in a trust requires every person in the trust to fill out forms now- it used to be easier- and the old ones are grandfathered, but new ones, its really easier to put them in your name, but that runs in to issues when it needs to be disposed of on your death... its all relative).

Each company that makes the silencer has their own threading. If you thread your barrel for that one, you can directly attach it. They also make quick detach setups that look/act like a muzzle break or flash suppressor without the can on it- but those are also proprietary. There is some degree of similarity with some companies, but you need to know it in advance if you want to play musical barrels with them.

To me, the added weight and length plays hob with the balance of the gun. It can be dealt with, but unless I am playing at the range, I find them annoying personally, but others love them. They do reduce recoil like a good compensator, without the blast effect.

The one I have for .22 RF on a pistol is hearing safe, especially with subsonics. The bullets do crack if they are supersonic, but much less noise than a unsuppressed pistol of the same chambering. The sound of the pistol is like clapping your hands with a subsonic, and you hear that and the crack (if you have ever been in a rifle range pit downrange while folks are shooting, that is what you should expect) is from a supersonic round. To me, the .300 sounds like a regular magnum hunting load from a shotgun with the suppressor, with a much more pronounced crack. The amount of noise really depends on the amount of gas and the volume/design of the suppressor.

My .30 can is hearing safe with subsonics.

With .300 BLK supersonics, I don't know if it's officially safe, but its is not obnoxious.

Put it on a .308, and it is definitely more noise, but still tolerable.

Put it on a .300 win mag, I don't think its hearing safe, but it is MUCH quieter than the same rifle with it off.

12 Ga Shotgun- its a pig with it on. However, using subsonic shells, its loud, but not obnoxious- you hear the pellets hitting the target. The noise in my case is because its on a semi auto gun, and the action noise is substantial. With standard trap rounds or hunting ammo, the supersonic crack is probably not legally hearing safe, but its better than the usual muzzle blast.

They are made by bore diameter, and you can shoot a smaller diameter round through a bigger suppressor, but the effectiveness is noticeably lessened by the greater difference between the suppressor bore and the bullet.

What I have learned:

-Drive to a dealer that has a bunch already in stock and does photos, fingerprints, and submittal on site. Saves you a bunch of time. I drive 200 miles (to Denver) as that dealer (Mile High) has several dozen (hundreds?) in stock and ready to go. Plus it takes about an hour to do your photos, fingerprints, background, and submittal.

-The suppressors I use the most are .22 (Silencerco Sparrow) and 6.5 (Thunderbeast 7" Ultra). I run the Sparrow on a .17 HMR and .17 Hornet. The 6.5 on all my centerfires up to 6.5 Creedmoor. I also have two different 30 cals that I run on a 300 BLK and 308.

-You want to go with the lightest/shortest you can and those can get pricey. I don't like putting cans on any hunting rifles with more than a 20 inch barrel as they can become unweildly, like swinging a golf bag around. On my varmint rifles the length isn't as crucial. But putting a heavy can on the end of a lightweight rifle affects balance considerably.

-Once you get used to running a suppressor on varmint rifles and such you will really appreciate them. Not only sound reduction but also the overpressure on your face/eyes. You recover faster and can often see the bullet hit or critter reaction.

-Having a rifle threaded runs about $75 to $100 bucks. It's good to have the suppressor in hand so your 'smith can cut the threads for good mating. Or so my 'smiths tell me (Ray Montgomery and Dan Dowling). Many factory rifles come threaded.

-POI can shift 3-6 inches @100 yards with/without suppressor in place. So if you're going to hunt with one might want to have a designated suppressor rifle and just run it.

-There are several good brands out there. I've had warranty work done by AAC and Silencerco and they were quick and cheap about it.

-Certain calibers make a lot of sense to suppress: rimfires and mild-ish centerfires that are good with shorter barrels.

Take the plunge, get one for rimfires and mid-calibers and enjoy.

Im not in the US so can't advise on the legal situation there. Here most people use suppressors, I have one on every gun I own.

You will get the best noise reduction on a bolt gun, anything gas operated will leak sound and all the moving parts make noise so the end result is a little more noisy. You tend to get the best sound reduction by using a can which is as close as possible to the caliber of the gun. I also have a fully suppressed shotgun which is a hoot to use.

Some can be disassembled and cleaned, others cannot and are a one piece design. Personally I have never found any advantage to being able to take them apart to clean. They do add to the overall length of the gun so they do change the balance and shooting from a vehicle can be a pain due to increased length. Some are designed so that the back part of the can sleeves back over the end of the barrel to keep the overall length to a minimum.

The POI will change when you add the can so zeroing will be required if you use the gun with and then without the can. Thats why I have one on all my guns, its less arse ache. The biggest caliber I use is 25-06 and with that you don't need ear protection and most of the time the recoil is reduced to a point where i don't loose the sight picture either.

If you want really quiet you will need sub sonic ammo. I have used a 338 whisper which was very quiet but had a trajectory like a rainbow.

note - a "trust" allows you to have a legal means of possession for more than just the single owner - this was done, frankly, during the union busting/formation era, for pretty ugly reasons -- but you could put your armed guards in the trust and THEY could LEGALLY possess a machine gun or silencer - and when the need passed, you took them out of the trust ..

if you plan to let someone else EVER shoot your silencer, go with the trust

Jeffe that was the way it was...

It has changed somewhat in that everyone who is added has to go through the process (fingerprints,etc) and you need to fill out multiple forms for adding a new device to the trust- one for each person in the trust- filled out.

It’s not so easy anymore. When they took the discretion away from local LE on individual forms, they bumped the Regs to trusts.

Pre-existing trusts are still valid, but adding items or people is now much more intrusive.

Or so my dealer told me.

I had a real issue getting sign off on my first one, then went to a trust. Now they don’t want to try and add anything because my dad and brother are on the trust and getting the forms from them is a hassle.

thanks for the update! good to know

Doing the trust thing had some advantages. For example my son is in the military and put his wife on the trust for them so she could lawfully possess them when he's been deployed. But as mentioned trusts have changed and everybody named has to go through the background process. If I understand it correctly it results in a 'group ownership' of sorts and makes pass down a little easier.

I have just kept it simple and done it as an individual.

You can add people to the trust as trustees using a notary public AFTER the Form 1 or 4 is approved.
If you use the same trust for more NFA items, then all trustees go through the FBI background check.

I now use separate trusts for each new NFA item. And it still takes forever.

George