I was considering booking a hunt for Atai Ibex in Mongolia for September/October 2011.

Has anyone any recommendations of who to book through?

Profihunt seemed to be good, but i've read Express's report on Russia below and am now not sure....

Many thanks

www.huntingconsortium.com

They handled our trip to Tajikistan for Marco Polo Sheep/ibex hunt. Extensive Asia experience.Good luck on your search and hunt.

Was Bob Kern @ The Hunting Consortium convicted of Lacey act Violations? Shooting Moose out of Helicoptors?

He was indicted and found not guilty by a jury in Houston, TX in 2008. I don't remember the details of the hunt in question, but I know it was a moose hunt in Russia back in 2002 with some high profile hunters. No one was convicted of any crime. I have hunted with The Hunting Consortium once on a tur hunt in Azerbaijan I bought at an auction. I did not get a tur, but the hunt was well organized and I had no complaints.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...26108036/m/330108678



Here is the link to the acquital, trial, etc.

apparently there was not a "trial", but here is a quote from the article you posted;

During a September 2002 trip, Duncan, Conroe taxidermist Mike Simpson and others shot moose and snow sheep from a helicopter. They donated the meat to poor residents of remote Russia.
Using an aircraft as a shooting platform is generally frowned upon in hunting circles as unsportsmanlike and unethical.

From what I understand Bob Kern, Mike Simpson and Dan Duncan never refuted the fact that they shot the sheep and moose out of a helicopter. I guess when the article stated "generally frowned upon in hunting circles as unsportsmanlike and unethical." they meant just that. Apparently that behaviour is acceptable amongst some peers and those who keep promoting their services.

Check out Bob Patton of Asian Expeditions from Alliston Ontario Canada. He is well known in the sheep fraternity.Prices are reasonable and he knows Asia.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
apparently there was not a "trial", but here is a quote from the article you posted;

During a September 2002 trip, Duncan, Conroe taxidermist Mike Simpson and others shot moose and snow sheep from a helicopter. They donated the meat to poor residents of remote Russia.
Using an aircraft as a shooting platform is generally frowned upon in hunting circles as unsportsmanlike and unethical.

From what I understand Bob Kern, Mike Simpson and Dan Duncan never refuted the fact that they shot the sheep and moose out of a helicopter. I guess when the article stated "generally frowned upon in hunting circles as unsportsmanlike and unethical." they meant just that. Apparently that behaviour is acceptable amongst some peers and those who keep promoting their services.

Kern...was not there nor was he one of the hunters....errrr....shooters.

Kinda changes things a bit in my mind.

I tend to agree with Dinsdale that Kern not being directly involved in the incident changes things a bit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding Kern and the outcome of the legal proceedings. But the fact is Kern is certainly one of the most organized and knowledgable booking agents for Asian hunts.

It is each hunters responsibility to do what they think is right. In a place like Russia, or Mongolia or one of the Stans, the local hunting ethics are vastly different than what most people here would consider normal or acceptable. It's your money and your hunt, you have to insist on conducting it in a manner you see fit. If the local guide tries to do something you're not comfortable with, don't go along with it.

I wouldn't hesitate to consider Kern when looking for a Mongolian hunt. I've also heard good things about trips set up by Bob Patton, but I have no personal experience with him. Gretchen Stark and Clark Jeffs with Safari Outfitters also send a lot of hunters to Asia and seem to get high marks from their clients.

Good luck planning your trip!

Contact Jeff Neal or Greg Brownlee at 918 299 3580. They books hunts in Mongolia and have done so for a number of years. Website is www.jeffcneal.com

I believe Clark Jeffs who posts here books hunts there as well. Website is www.safari1.com

Here is the statement by the Department of Justice, Do you have something stating to the contrary that Kern was not there? If so, does it matter whether he was present if he set it up?

"The indictment is based on a hunt in Russia in the summer of 2002 that was organized by Kern. During the hunt, Kern used helicopters to locate trophy-sized moose and sheep for hunters on the trip," the Department of Justice said in a statement.

"The helicopters were then used as airborne shooting platforms by the hunters. The use of helicopters in the taking of wildlife is prohibited by Russian law," it said.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Here is the statement by the Department of Justice, Do you have something stating to the contrary that Kern was not there? If so, does it matter whether he was present if he set it up?

"The indictment is based on a hunt in Russia in the summer of 2002 that was organized by Kern. During the hunt, Kern used helicopters to locate trophy-sized moose and sheep for hunters on the trip," the Department of Justice said in a statement.

"The helicopters were then used as airborne shooting platforms by the hunters. The use of helicopters in the taking of wildlife is prohibited by Russian law," it said.

Sure, go to the link that Kathi provided to the earlier AR thread. The post just before yours.

Go a few more posts down to one by "Yukon Delta";

Read the post and the 3rd paragraph.

It should also be noted that a Grand Jury would have only heard the governments case and they didn't make it.They also failed too for any prosecution on all 4 hunters also and then tried for Kern on the importation as the agent.As you said it didn't matter if he was there according to the government....but a jury felt otherwise.

pretty shady dealings, Dan Duncan and Mike Simpson admitted that they located and shot the moose and sheep out of a helicopter. Does the fact that they weren't criminally prosecuted make it ok? Not to me. Was Bob Kern involved? SCI says no in the article posted on this site, but considering that they and many of their supporters worship people like Dan Duncan, I don't give their version of the story much credibility. In all fairness, I do not know to what extent Bob was involved, but I can guarantee that not only would I never book a hunt with him because of this, but I will continue to make sure other hunters are informed of what took place on one of his hunts.

SWS,

I hope you've found a few places to start your search on this thread. I don't see any need to continue debating the Bob Kern incident. 505 had some of his facts wrong (no offense intended), but he did alert you to a legitimate concern he has about Kern. You should talk to recent clients from each outfitter/agent who have been in Mongolia to see how the hunts are conducted.

I would also wait unti the hunters come back from hunts this fall and talk to them. Mongololia just went through a brutal winter (once in several decades type winter, I think they even have a name for it...The Zud). It decimated domestic livestock and was tough on the wild animals in some areas as well. Some of the wild sheep organizations were asking for resources to go in and do supplemental feeding to keep the sheep alive. I don't know if the ibex were affected to the same extent but I would certainly talk to hunters that are there this fall to get a current report before booking.

Mongolia is on my list as well. Let us know if you go and how it turns out. Good luck!

I hunted siberian or altai ibex with Ansten Østbye of Østbyes Hunting Tours last year. It was great.

Have a look here if you like. My report

Try wade derby, he post here regularly, very good guy, www.crosshairconsulting.com

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
Try wade derby, he post here regularly, very good guy, www.crosshairconsulting.com

+1

Clark Jeffs of Safari Outfitters in Cody.

www.safari1.com