THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM ASIAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  Asian Hunting Forum    Russia, never again! (final chapter and letter included)
Page 1 2 3 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Russia, never again! (final chapter and letter included)
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted Hide Post
Express:

Great news, have a great hunt! I apologize for thinking you had waited to the last minute now that more details have been supplied. You handled THEIR screw up in admirable form. Let us know how it goes.


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I have travelled the world on business. I have visas from most of those countries, even a business visa from Australia. I never applied for a visa with less than 60 days lead time. For Russia and Kazakhstan, I applied 90 days ahead and used a visa expedite service. All came back in about 60 days, once in 110 days.

Unless you can buy the visa at the airport, visas require at least 90 days.

On getting bogus info from the Russians, HELLO! They are Russians, they can send an cosmonaut into space but cannot make decent toilet paper.

Good luck on the hunt.
 
Posts: 10430 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I agree about the Russkies, I had one steal a pretty fair amount of money from me, my bad, I trusted him. You might keep in mind (but don't use it) a Russian word that describes most of the bureaucrats of all nationalities you'll run into, phonetically it is showpah, which means, ummmm, anal orifice. Wink

BTW I haven't used them but these guys "claim" that they can have a US citizen a Russian visa in 3 days (10 days costs less) if he's willing to pay to play. Whether they can deliver or not is another matter. Russian visas


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Gents
I can tell you as a fellow Aussie that i have applied for vises throught the Russia embassy here a number of times and haveing an "EX" wife that was Russian so i speak enough to make a point and understand. I can tell you that express did eveything that was asked its just that the Russia Embasys all over the world still have a stick up there ass and does nothing to help anyone!
 
Posts: 896 | Location: Langwarrin,Australia | Registered: 06 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of silkibex
posted Hide Post
"zhowpa" is more like it and yes, it is a fitting term
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Central Asia/SE Asia | Registered: 02 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I wonder how much a stollen passport is worth ?
 
Posts: 509 | Location: Flathead county Montana | Registered: 28 January 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Express,
After this ordeal, I sure hope you knock down a monster.
 
Posts: 3456 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: 17 January 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
http://jimshockey.com/Blog/news_detail.aspx?n=215


Just checked Jim Shockey's website, they are doing great on bears.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9529 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Ok, update:

I actually met up with Shockey and a dozen other people in Moscow and flew together to Petro, then met again in Esso.
It turns out that we are all hunting with the same outfitter, regardless of who you book through. It was a group of nice people and it was nice to travel together.
I am glad he is doing well, but killing bears is not the hard part of a Kamchatka hunt.

I am back from my hunt early because I got my bear on day 4 and two guys from my camp wanted to leave so I got a free ride out.

Am I happy? NO. This is definately not the hunt I was sold or believed I was going on.

There is a long list of things that did not go the way they were supposed to, that are not acceptable and I am still stuck here trying to resolve.

For the moment my biggest problem is just trying to get home. I have never, ever been on a trip away where I was glad to leave and go home.

I only left the camp early because they told me it would be no problem to get my flights changed and leave the same day.
That was yesterday and I have been sitting a hotel in Petropavlovsk while they tell me it will be a problem to change my flights, costing more than new flights, and are not honouring the deals made earlier to ship the skin and skull back to Moscow.

They told me that maybe this afternoon the they will come buy and we will talk about shipping the skin and changing my flights. Until then, they said I can go for a walk, which I already did, but Petropavlovsk doesn't have a lot to look at and I am miles from the port where I assume the city center is. I'll get a taxi later.

So, no, I am not happy with the way this hunt went. Yes I shot a bear, pretty big one, but it is not worth much to me as a memory, I really do feel cheated.

I will write up more when I finally do get home, until then I feel like I cannot relax because I am being circled by sharks trying to get more money out of me. It may be days before I can get out of here, I have already got people back in Italy to look into buying me another ticket or changing the ones I already have from there, because from here, it is not going to be cheap or quick.

I have written to Profihunt, and the shipping agent who were both involved in making the arrangements for the skin, and told Profihunt about my problems so I will see what comes of that, but I expect very little and will report what happens there.

Ciao for now, I'm going to kill some time.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 404WJJeffery
posted Hide Post
Sorry your hunt did not turn out well.

Here in the US you can get a Russian visa with a one day service- I too use gotorussia.net, they do a good job. Don't know if you have such visa service companies in Italy.

I also agree that one should never go to Russia without the proper documents.

An acquaintance flew from Kiev to Moscow without a visa and thought he could work it out. They took him into custody and left him in a locked room at the hotel next to Sherametrova airport for three days. Only by chance another passenger on the flight called the US consulate and they finally visited him.

He got out after a week and with a heavy fine. No one asked him for a bribe to fix his problem they just left him locked up.

Russia has many great attractions and can be an interesting trip, but I would never go there with anything but low expectations, unless I was allied with local people that I knew beforehand, and with an outfitter that I had some leverage with ie a local contact with influence.

Best of luck to you.


______________________________

"Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??"

Josie Wales 1866
 
Posts: 1489 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 July 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I-ve been sitting in my hotel room for a few hours now. Only Russian TV and nothing to do.
I have been on a lot of hunts but I've never been left to sit around for days on end.
For the money this hunt costs you should have an interpreter or someone accompany you for the whole time.
It just leaves me dumbfounded that this is how they treat clients here, problem is that there are plenty more just waiting to take my place so they are not worried about losing business.
I wonder if it is just Profihunt that operates like this? Next group of hunters I see in the hotel I will stop and ask them.
I agree with 404WJeffery's comments, now I have the knowledge and met a local who could be of great help if I wanted to organize a future hunt, but the problem is that these bastards will not honour their promises, so you just don't know how far you can trust them.
Whether I would ever want to come back here is a whole different question.
Trophy size is reputed to be greated in Kamchatka for moose and bear, but honestly, if I was in Whitehorse, Anchorage, Vancouver or wherever else I am sure this would not be happening, and I am sure that hunt would have been fair chase and at least lots of fun, regardless of the trophy size.
I may have to buy another ticket, because the cost of spending another 4 days here is going to be about the same as a new ticket anyway and this is not a fun place to be, so I might be stuck there. Then I still have to work out how to get my bear back to Moscow, which is probably going to cost three times more than I was quoted, in writing. I have those emails printed out for when the outfitter comes back, who is apparently "busy" until 5 or 6 this afternoon. I wonder if that is of any coincidence that Moscow business hours also start at 5 local time here and he wants to talk to Profi hunt first?
There is nothing I can do to get any appeasal but I will be putting this up on the Hunt Report, I feel like the rest of the world should know what hunting in Kamchatka is really like.
I know a dozen or more people who wanted to do this hunt that will definately book an Alaskan or Canadian hunt if they want to shoot a brown bear, after I have told them what it's like here.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Ok, so I just talked to the local outfitter and here is the situation:

Credit where it is due, he is going to advance my flight expenses, shipping and taxidermist preparation for the bear.

It appears the culprit here is Profihunt, more precisely Artem Vaselov, the guy I corresponded with. He didn't refer any of the information about my hunt to the outfitter who said he always does his best to accomodate the wishes and requests of his clients. This lead to me participating in a hunt that was not tailored to my expectations, and was not what I consider fair chase, but I have come to realize that it is how %99 of hunts are conducted in reality, also because most of the clients are not physically able to ski or walk on snow shoes to get their bear. The guides were not equipped to do this kind of hunting but they did say they can and have done it but they need to be told beforehand so they can bring the right gear.

The local guy is the same outfitter that Bob Kern used to take Jim Shockey out and he tells me that when Bob Kerm makes a booking with him he relays each and every detail of the clients wishes and expectations to him and that he meets them. I believe that regardless of who you hunt with you will be using his camps and guides for most of the Kamchatka hunts. I know that a hunt that our AR member Profy Hunter (not to be confused with Profihunt) offered me, was not outfitted by this guy, so he does not have the monopoly but does have most of them.

I will be flying out tomorrow and Artem Vaselov of Profihunt will(should) be meeting me in Moscow to negotiate who will pay for my ticket change. The cost will be around $900, and if Profihunt will cover it then at least I will have one good thing to say about them, if not, I will pay half of it. The Kamchatka outfitter offered to pay the other half. It's not much but it is a gesture of good faith that I appreciate. When I told him that I have written to Profihunt(Vaselov) and whether I should write again to tell them I had resolved things, he said not to bother because if they had wanted to do anything about it they would have called him immediately and it was 10:30 in Moscow by that time, so they were not interested.

He is also going to take my bear hide to a taxidermist who will de-fat and completely dry it before sending it to save me money on freight and taxidermist work in Moscow.

So for the moment my problems have been solved, and I have at least gotten to the bottom of why I ended up going on a hunt that did not reflect what I thought I was getting.
I was still a bit leery about booking with Profihunt, but they seemed to get mostly good reports. The odd hunter was furious, but most were satisfied. A hunter who is in their older years, and not in great physical shape would not have been bothered by the way this hunt was conducted because it is the only way to get the bear in those conditions, but I am young and fit and like to hunt hard, and made this very clear to Profi hunt that this was what I wanted to do. I also corresponded with the same guy last year when enquiring about an ibex hunt and he knows my story, so I can't excuse that.
As in Africa so much game is (quietly) shot from a car, in Kamchatka many bears are shot from the sled on the back of a snow mobile. I shot mine a short distance away from the sled, but it would be a great stretch to say that it was a fair chase hunt. Anyone could have done it.

On a side note, when I got to Esso there was another Profihunt client who had been there for three days and no one had been to pick him up.
It turned out that when they went to pick up his group he was not in the immediate vicinity of the hotel and they didn't know about him, presumably because Profihunt had neglected to give the outfitter all or the correct information.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Been following your saga. Sorry it didn't turn out the way you had intended.
Sounds like Profihunt needs a few more secretaries and one less accountant. Good to hear you were able to make some headway and will soon be returning home.
 
Posts: 3456 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: 17 January 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Soo here I am in Petropavlovosk.
Obviously we didn't or couldn't get the flight. So I will be and have been hanging around until the 16th on my original flight.

The local outfitter gave me 6000rubles, about $200USD to cover half of my hotel, which is better than nothing, but doesn't help pass the time here. I have seen all of the ciy and it aint much to look at. There are big "malls" filled with small stores that sell the same stuff from one place to another and the souvenirs are ridiculously overpriced. There are street markets that sell dried fish and brick bracks but they also geting to be monotonous after 5 minutes.

I've had time to reflect on this hunt and basically I blame myself for not being more careful with the agent. on any future hunts I want to get written confermation of the guides names who will be guiding me and their response and approval to my requests, which are, for a fair chase hunt. And I will avoid using a booking agency, in this case, the local outfitter provides ALL of the services that Profihunt does, at a couple of thousand dollars less. And you have the opportunity to talk directly to the people who will be making your hunt happen.

I got an e-mail from Veselov that didn't reply to the problems I posed him, instead he just kissed my ass for killing a bear, and gave a jumbled version of the events that lead to me sorting out what to do with my hides, trying to take credit for having organized it when I did it at the table with the outfitter.
The reality is that once I got the local outfitter at the table and started to tell him what I was not happy with, and what was supposed to have been organized before hand ha actually said "I bet you spoke with Artem Vaselov, he never tells me anything about the cliets and this happens a lot with their bookings. They just want to take the money for the booking and don't care about anything else".

What am I to think?

I hadn't mentioned that I also snapped my rifle in half on the second day of the hunt and used the guides 7.62x54R dDruganov to shoot my bear. What pisses me off is that the rifle got snapped because the guide was chasing after a bear amongst the trees, the sled got flipped and the rifle fit a tree and snapped the stock at the pistol grip.
So it was while we were carrying out this type of hunting that I was not told I would be doing that I got my rifle badly damaged.
Shit happens on hunts, I had a rifle fall down a mountain with a horse that slipped last year and do some serious damage, no problems there, but when is happens because you are doing something you do not consider sporting, or part of the hunt, it really pisses me off.
I don't entertain the fantasy that I will ever get any compensation or recognition from Profihunt, they will blame the outfitter for using such techniques to get their game, and it will go round and round till I give up, having only gotten myself frustated.

What I do want to do is make sure that as many people know exactly what they are buying in to on a Kamchatka hunt.
The guides were skilled and worked hard, they spend their winters trapping the area (on skis) so they know thier way around.
What a Kamchatka bear hunt actually is though, is a chase, and when you get a chance, you shoot the bear. In m case it was a short chase and the bear got into the trees where it could not be followed so I had to move maybe 50 yards on foot. But I heard of another hunter telling me that they chased is bear out in the open until it just could not go on any further.

It's just like, or worse than shooting off a landrover in Africa, which happens more than we usually admit, but when you go on a hunt, that is sold as fair chase you expect them to be set up for fair chase. If you chose to shoot from a vehicle than that is your decision, you should never, ever be denied the possibility to hunt fair chaise.

When in Russia, beware!
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
Very sad to hear of your unpleasant experience.

A man I know from the UAE went on a bear hunt to Russia too.
He came back so upset, saying no matter what he tells us, we would not believe him.

It weas THAT bad.

It really makes one wonder what goes on with these outfitters. I have never been to Russia, and mostly likely I never will.

But, in cotrast, to all the hunting I have done in Africa, the reception one gets there ALWAYS exceeds the expectations.

At least that has been my own experience.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69214 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Damn, but that is too bad ... Kamchatka was always on my bucket list ... at least it used to be. Frowner
 
Posts: 1546 | Location: Alberta/Namibia | Registered: 29 November 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
I'm sorry about your hunt.

I've had some bad experiences myself, but nothing so bad as you describe.

It seems that the outfitter himself at least tried to do the right thing.

Although chasing down game using snow machines is deplorable and does not constitute hunting.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13752 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
http://www.jimshockey.com/Blog/news_detail.aspx?n=216

EXPRESS,

Sorry to hear about all the problems you experienced on this hunt.

Attached is Jim Shockey's updated blog on the hunt.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9529 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I saw that blog Kathi, I will most likely speak to Jim when he gets back here, probably tonight or on the flight tomorrow.

I am glad that he is having a good hunt, however, it does not surprise me.
His hunt means a lot of publicity, and Bob Kern would have made absolutely certain that everything was perfect this this particular hunt.
Bob accompanied them all the way to Esso, and he has an excelent team of people who speak Russian who accompanied them.
I know that his hunt was a priority among the people who organized this outing, the reports coming across the radio each evening between the camps always included "ze Shoki has not shooted today" or "ze Skoki has shooted bear today" so I'm sure they went the extra mile to make sure his hunt turned out well. In my case, it was just a matter of get the bloody tourist up to a bear, make him shoot it then send the bugger out of here so we can go home too.

Now that I have spoken to the outfitter, and have met a local interpreter who can organize things, found out how things work here and discovered just about everything that could possibly go wrong, I too could organize another Kamchatka bear or moose hunt that would be just great, and cost much much less.

I'll write up a hunt report when I get home, rested and relaxed.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of silkibex
posted Hide Post
I had always heard decent things about Profihunt--maybe that was in return for not publicizing that Client X shot his "inner circle" bear from the snowmobile after it could run no more. Of course, plenty of possibly the same clients did the same with their Marco Polos and helicopters.

It sounds like Profihunt shafted your zhopa from start to finish (although it ain't over until the fat lady at the airport in Moscow gives you a body cavity search).

On the other hand, it seems the outfitter tried to make it right.
Let's face it, Russians or not, they wouldn't be running bears with snowmobiles if there wasn't a market for it.

I'm really sorry to hear about your disaster.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Central Asia/SE Asia | Registered: 02 March 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of TrackersNZ
posted Hide Post
I used this outfit three times to get into Russia. Always had smooth dealings and fast results getting LOI and Visa.
http://www.visatorussia.com/


...."At some point in every man's life he should own a Sako rifle and a John Deere tractor....it just doesn't get any better...."
 
Posts: 630 | Location: Hawera, Taranaki, New Zealand | Registered: 17 May 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I heard from Jim Shockey that some people understood that I was implying that he was getting special treatment on this hunt.
Not the case.
I will say that his hunting generated special interest, because I learned that he is something of a celebrity but the treatment he received as a client was the same as the rest of the group that Bob Kern had book with him, which was special, in the simple sense that it was extremely good.

I have to say that I was envious of the treatment they were getting compared to what I was getting from Profihunt.
I'll post the full report later.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Sorry to hear you had a poor hunt. I know what it's like to look forward to an overseas hunt for months and then have the reality fall so short of your expectations.

I don't think you gave the wrong impression re: Jim Shockey either. It is just normal for an outfitter/guide to do their very best for a a worldwide hunting guru, it isn't Jim's fault!

Look forward to the report.



quote:
Originally posted by EXPRESS:
I heard from Jim Shockey that some people understood that I was implying that he was getting special treatment on this hunt.
Not the case.
I will say that his hunting generated special interest, because I learned that he is something of a celebrity but the treatment he received as a client was the same as the rest of the group that Bob Kern had book with him, which was special, in the simple sense that it was extremely good.

I have to say that I was envious of the treatment they were getting compared to what I was getting from Profihunt.
I'll post the full report later.
 
Posts: 2360 | Location: London | Registered: 31 May 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Sorry to hear about your experience in Russia, Joe. In regards to your visa, as you know I travel a lot. I use a visa service in Ottawa for Canadians, and I have never had a visa for any country take more then a week. On occasion when I have had to request multiple country visas in one trip, they have helped me a great deal, and even then it didn't take more then a couple of weeks. I'm sure there must be similar services in Italy, even if it is a "modern 3rd world country", lol (Joe will get the reference). On the other hand, that sort of service costs, but I find it makes the experience go a lot easier. Good luck on your next hunt. When will you be in Oz or South Africa or Canada again? maybe we can meet up for a bit. Take care, my friend. - dan


"Intellectual truth is eternally one: moral or sentimental truth is a geographic and chronological accident that varies with the individual" R.F. Burton
 
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BOWHUNR
posted Hide Post
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience EXPRESS. I always considered Profi-hunt to be the leader in Russian hunts. I hunted Kamchatka with them in the spring of 2006 and everything about the hunt was very well organized from start to finish. I wonder what has happened? Change of management/ownership?

Mike


NEVER BOOK A HUNT WITH JEFF BLAIR AT BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING!
 
Posts: 636 | Location: Omaha, NE U.S.A. | Registered: 28 April 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Kamo Gari
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by EXPRESS:

Shit happens on hunts, I had a rifle fall down a mountain with a horse that slipped last year and do some serious damage, no problems there, but when is happens because you are doing something you do not consider sporting, or part of the hunt, it really pisses me off.


I too am sorry to hear of your royal shafting (in several different ways) on this nightmare hunt, but I can't say I'm feeling very sympathetic about your rifle. You said yourself that their method to kill bear wasn't sporting, but you did have a choice, did you not?

That said, thank you for the heads-up on this. I have been screwed once or twice on paid hunts/fishing excursions, and it took a long time for the rage to pass. If I see any of the parties at any time in the future, my grudge will spew forth in a most unpleasant way, I'm certain. No excuse for the screwings people endure at the hands of unscrupulous scum.


______________________

Hunting: I'd kill to participate.
 
Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Kamo Gari, I can see your point, however you have to be in a situation first hand to be able to judge.

On the second day we had our first bear chase and I realized that was how they planned to conduct the hunt.
Back at camp I got the interpreter to tell my guide that I would prefer to use the snowmobile for travel but to stalk on foot.
The very next day he took off chasing a bear and my rifle got broken.

I could have just gone back to camp and asked them to relay a message back to Profihunt telling them I was not happy with the situation and did not want to continue the hunt on these terms. Ask to be taken home and be given a refund. They probably would not have done it, and I would have had to pay for an extra helicopter charter out ($7000).
Also, the guides were not equipped with snowshoes or skis, so it was not going to be possible to do it "my" way, and of course my trust in the Russians at this point is now absolutely zero. Having paid all expenses in full in advance, including the trophy fee on the bear, the chances of ever seeing my money again were also zero.

So at that point I decided to just make the most of a bad situation and get the hunt over with, there really wasn't much more I could do. I thought of it as an expensive and stupid way to buy a bearskin rug.
The problem with these situations is not so much your will to do things right, but the willingness of the party you are with to allow and assist you to exercise your choice.
I did a moose hunt in about 6 or 7 years ago, I still have the correspondence from the outfitter telling me our wilderness hunt would be conducted on horses, atvs or walking. Once we got to camp, (1 mile from a highway) there were no horses and only 1 atv between 6 or 7 hunters. We were told, “well, you CAN walk, if you want to, but if you want to shoot a moose, you’re going to have road hunt” We had to road hunt in competition with the locals. However, I got lucky and after changing three guides I got one who was prepared, and more importantly used to hiking, with only two more days left to hunt. We drove to a area and hiked a few miles away from the road and started seeing moose sign. I ended up being one of the only two people to shoot a moose on that 10 day hunt, as small as it was, it was considered to be “good for the area”.
Once you have travelled halfway across the world, taken the time off work and away from family to hunt and paid in full in advance for a hunt that turns out to be different to what you were sold, you are never going to get the time back, you will probably never get the money back, and you never how things will work out in the end.
From now on any hunts I book I will make sure that as part of my cross examination of the outfitter/agent that my principal question will be; what is your guarantee that once I get into camp I will not be presented with different options to what I have agreed to?
Commercial hunting has become a minefield of tourist traps and dishonest agents. Also people’s willingness to kill animals the easiest way possible, often because they are not physically capable of hunting them have precluded people who want an honest hunt from getting it because they make up %80 of the market today and outfitters are catering to that more than to finding guides who will go hiking up mountains with clients just because they want to. Hunters who are past their prime, or overweight and want to kill a bear, moose, whatever, who can only do it from a vehicle should not be condemned, but we, and more importantly agents, need to stop humoring the idea that these hunts are fair chase because it illudes anyone who want to have a go themselves as to what to expect.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Kamo Gari
posted Hide Post
Got it, and thanks for the clarification. Again, truly sorry you got screwed; I HATE hearing about this kind of crap. Your telling of it here is a good deed, though, letting other potential victims know to steer well clear of these unscrupulous operators. I hope your spreading the word costs them dearly in the short--and long run. Thanks again for sharing.


______________________

Hunting: I'd kill to participate.
 
Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Thanks for sharing your take of woe.

I learned that paying in advance is a bad idea when Cabelas screwed me on a Namibian plains game hunt. Some outfitters will tell bald-faced lies to get your business.
 
Posts: 4799 | Location: Lehigh county, PA | Registered: 17 October 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
This experience has prompted me to start writing a bit of an article on what my advice to hunters wishing to book a hunt need to ask and what conditions they need to secure before handing over their money for hunts. We need to be fair, but they also need to be fair. Once I have finished it I will put it up on here.
Also because I feel that in the central Asian and ex-soviet block countries are where we encounter the most problems due the language barrier, distances, cultural differences, the necessity to use an agent etc.
Even using a well regarded agent may not be the simple answer to any and all potential problems. We as clients need to be very specific and ask all the right questions, otherwise you might be unhappy about something on a hunt that was part of the program but you simply imagined would be different. We can’t think of everything, and neither can our agents and outfitters, so there has to be mutual cooperation to ensure both you and your reference are on the same page.
It comes down to people’s business ethics and unfortunately we navigate in circles where both the clients and providers have been responsible for propagating bad examples to follow.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of dla69
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by onefunzr2:
I learned that paying in advance is a bad idea when Cabelas screwed me on a Namibian plains game hunt. Some outfitters will tell bald-faced lies to get your business.


Have you posted the particulars on this issue before. I'm sure others would be interested in it. I almost booked a Namibian hunt with Makadi last year.
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Greensburg, PA | Registered: 18 February 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Not in unfettered detail. Suffice it to say that I put my trust in Cabelas and their 2 big time consultants who assured my hunting partner and me that we would have no trouble at all putting to bag the 8 species we paid for in advance, as this was a new operation that had never been hunted before. But when we arrived, the owner/PH said he told Cabelas 2 years beforehand that there were no blue or black wildebeest in the vicinity.

And neither of us so much as saw a Hartman's mountain zebra, much less got a shot at one. That doesn't add up to just bad luck but deception, plain and simple, because the day rates and trophy fees were all wrapped up in a pre-paid package deal.

Cabelas doesn't get any of my business anymore because they replied with a form letter that didn't address our dissatisfaction. But Cabelas is so big, losing 2 customers is of no concern to them. Live and learn.
 
Posts: 4799 | Location: Lehigh county, PA | Registered: 17 October 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I've been following this thread from the beginning. And I think it tragedy, one thing I have tried to do concerning my hunts, only go with people that my personal friends have hunted with. It makes it hard, but there's just too much crap to risk it.





 
Posts: 732 | Location: Texas | Registered: 05 October 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Mate,on a lighter note did you get any pictures of the bear for us to see???
 
Posts: 896 | Location: Langwarrin,Australia | Registered: 06 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
yeah mate I do have some pics that I will post when I get a minute. I am flat out at the moment.

I had decided to let this thread die out because I figured enough is enough and I feel that it had gone a bit overboard.

But, as was eventually inevitable, the bloke from Profihunt Artem Vaselof read it and understandably was upset.

Less understandably however, the twerp wrote me a threatening email over it, to which I have written a reply but am undecied on whether to send it or not. Also because I still don't have the skin yet. This just gets better and better.

It lead me to decide that I will tell the rest of the story about the hunt and the fuckups that went along with it. For example when the airport security staff in Petro were arresting me because I turned up there unaccompanied with my rifle, as I had been instructed to get myself a taxi there. It turns out foreigners are not allowed to go anywhere unaccompanied with firearms in Russia...

That's just one example of the shit I found myself caught in.

I got next to nothing for the couple or three thousand dollars the agency took for my booking, and nothing that the local outfitter doesn't organize for his clients as part of a standard package, so I don't see why I should cut them any slack. I know that while in Russia it would have been easy to get your throat cut over the same amount of money.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Mate, I am really sorry once again you had a shit trip,have had a couple like that myself in Russia best was a total fuck up in Bikal. Was meant to be able to hunt five or six critters, didn't see a god damn thing and they didn't know were to look!! BUT if you ever want to go back to Kamchatka I go with a couple of ladies there and they are fantastic!!! they sort out all the shit so all you have to worry about is hunting. The moose hunt i was on last year the guide didn't even drink!!!!! mind you not much fun when i love a cold one or two tu2cheers
 
Posts: 896 | Location: Langwarrin,Australia | Registered: 06 September 2007Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
This thread has been dormant for a while now, but soon I will come back with the update.

The story is far from over, and many many more troubles came after that.

I am waiting till I get the skin into this country before I come out with the rest of it because frankly, I wouldn't put it above them to make it dissappear now.

More to come soon, and it gets much, much worse.
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
could you atleast posta picture of your bear while you think about it Express?
 
Posts: 896 | Location: Langwarrin,Australia | Registered: 06 September 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I hunted Mid-Caucasian Tur with Profi hunt last year and I must say it was by far the most unorganized hunt I've ever been on. I assumed that Profi was a great outfit from things that I've heard but I was wrong....way wrong! My hunting partners have been on a ton of international sheep hunts and were shocked at how bad the hunt was. I just heard from another hunter from Alaska he also had nothing good to say about them. His hunt was a total disaster! I cant imagine this outfit staying in business with these business practices.
 
Posts: 73 | Registered: 17 October 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Ok, here are some pics of the bear, I suppose it was a bit of a tease.

I'll come back with the rest of the story on the next few weeks. Being left alone in Petro, getting arrested at the airport, and a threatening email from Profihunt, still to come folks.







Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  Asian Hunting Forum    Russia, never again! (final chapter and letter included)

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia