I booked a Kamchatka bear hunt with Profihunt, due to leave Sunday the 2nd of May.
I do not fault them for my problems, but I was told I would need to organize my own visa.

I got on to the Russian consulate website and downloaded the forms I needed to fill out and Profihunt sent me the necessary invite and vouchers.

To make sure I was going about it properly I called the consulate to ask for clarification about how to do it. I was told to send everything in the mail, and that it would cost €35 for the regular procedure (10 days) or €70 for the urgent procedure that takes 3 days. They told me to send my passport along with the €35 in cash in the envelope. This was around the 6th of April, so there was not need to rush. I sent it with insured mail with a return receipt on the 9th. As of Monday the 19th I called the consulate to ask if it had been sent and got no answer. Over the next few days I started calling more and more each day, sending emails and faxes as I got more and more worried.
I never got a reply to any of them.

On Tuesday the 26th of April I asked a friend who lives in Rome, 400km from where I live to go to the consulate to see if he could get any information. By that stage I had made literally hundreds of phone calls, getting an answer only once and then I was put on hold until someone hung up on me.

My friend went to the consulate in the afternoon and was told to come back in the morning, because they are open to the public from 08:30 – 11:30am. The website says they are open 09:00-12:00 and from 15:00-17:00.
The following morning he went at 08:00 and waited outside until 11:20 when he got in with a journalist who let him pretend he was with him. Inside he was told that he would need to speak with the Vice Console, who told him that they do not accept visa applications by mail and that it would have been sent back by ordinary mail. However my passport never showed up. He said that if I go to the office with my passport I could ask for the urgent procedure and they might do it in three days. Luckily I have dual citizenship and another passport. So Tomorrow I am going on my last ditch attempt to get the visa, driving 400km to Rome and then another 400km back, in the vain hope that I can get someone to give me a visa on the spot.
No one in the consulate speaks good Italian or English, which makes dealing with them so much harder, which I do not find acceptable, considering that it should be a requirement of a consulate or embassy worker to speak the local language.

Now I have paid for the hunt in full, paid for my return flights all the way to Petropavlovsk Kamchatski, paid for my hotel in Moscow, applied for my visa three weeks ahead of time, yet here I am with just two business days to try and get a visa and the prospect is looking grim.

I have contacted all the people I know who are or could be of influence in diplomatic and bureaucratic circles but it seems there is little hope.

I trusted the information I was given by the Russian consulate, followed their instructions and it has cost me a passport and a trip, that I have not been able to find out if I can get my money back or credit for a future hunt, none of this through my own fault.

If you are planning a hunt to Russia, make very certain that all the paperwork will be taken care of by the outfitter or a travel agent.

Seems like the problem should fall squarely on Profihunt's shoulders.. I would blame them for this 100%..
It should be standard procedure when they book your hunt to have them help THEIR hunters easily get in/out of the country.
What a crock of shit. Profihunts should be all over this.

I hope it works out for you! Once you get this wrinkle ironed out, go whack a 10ft'er!

I'm not sure if I should blame Profihunt or not. They told me from the beginning to organize my own visa because it would be easier that way, so on one side, it does appear possible that they could have done it if they had wanted to, but on the other hand I did agree to undertake the assignment. I need to be objective, and if there is anyone to blame it is the person I got on the phone at the Russian consulate. I gave my contact at Profihunt the contact details of the Russian consulate, phone, email and fax and he sad he tried to call but got no answer, other than that I was not able to get him to do anything which did disappoint me because I was not even able to converse with the embassy or consulate, and it sounds logical that the company who is interested in receiving the guest should have some influence on the authority that grants the visa. I also that he could have contacted the Russian embassy, which I had also contacted but they did not speak Italian or English.
It has been disappointing how eager and quick they were to answer my e-mails right up until when I had paid for the hunt, after that, things have gotten fairly quiet and even though I have asked twice what will happen if I do not get the visa I still haven’t been given an answer. I would be happy enough if they would hold the full amount I paid them for a future hunt, a full refund sounds too good to be true. Then there are the flights and hotel.

It just astounds me how badly the Russian consulate is run, I would appear that the only thing that person wanted was to pocket the €35 I sent in the envelope.

I also contacted the Australian Embassy who got the Console to call me in person and ask about the problems I had. She told me that as long that the Russian consulate merely claimed they had sent the passport back to me, even if it was with unregistered mail that they could do nothing unless because they can't accuse them of lying. Unless the Russians state that they have my passport and will not give it to me than the Embassy cannot help me.

This whole experience has left me bewildered at how untrustworthy these people are, I mean I can fathom a travel agent being lazy or incompetent, but I cannot fathom the consulate giving me false information which costs me a trip, a passport and forces me to drive up and down the whole country at the last minute in a vain attempt to attain the visa, and even then it is not known or likely that I will get it.

I have heard that the Russian consulate in Genoa is less chaotic because it serves less people in a smaller city, but they are only open to the public from 17:00 to 18:00 so I might have to try driving there tomorrow afternoon since it will be impossible to get to the Rome consulate in time, then if I’m unsuccessful there, and I probably will be because I don’t have any connections there I will have to drive to Rome, another a total of 9 hours driving.

I am just so down about this whole thing because I have done nothing wrong on my part and been given a royal screwing by some unknown from an uncaring Russian consulate that is run by extraordinarily inept people.

Tomorrow I start my journey, probably to nowhere.

If you don't have everything back in time, and being that you have already paid for the presumable non-refundable flights.....I would seriously just get on the plane with your second passport and try to beg and plead your way to a visa once you land in Russia. If your flights are paid and non-refundable, what's the worst that happens, they send you back and you are out your time. In most places like this, the "having a visa ahead of time" thing seems to be flexible on occasion if you speak to the right people and perhaps grease the right palms once you get there.

JMHO

Tendrams has a good suggestion. But I'd contact Profihunt to let them know the plans. Profihunt may have some contacts in Russia. It's always harder to tell someone 'no' in person. However, it is a long flight.

I'm don't think they will let you board a flight to Russia without a visa.

EXPRESS--Sounds to me like YOU waited until the last minute to get yourself organized. When I hunt out of the UNITED STATES all of my questions and paperwork are complete at least 9 months before I leave for the hunt, most of the time it is 1 year prior to hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
EXPRESS--Sounds to me like YOU waited until the last minute to get yourself organized. When I hunt out of the UNITED STATES all of my questions and paperwork are complete at least 9 months before I leave for the hunt, most of the time it is 1 year prior to hunt.

Bully for you, but honestly, how does this help this fellow hunter in this situation right now?

Honestly, where is Profihunt in all of this? I understand, he suggested you should get your own visa because it is "easier", on him maybe? He took money from a client who is about to take this trip in the cornhole, he should get off his ass and do whatever it takes to hel his client. I see him offering all kinds of hunts on this site and jumping at the opportunity to offer his expertise anytime anything is asked about hunting in Asia, sounds like you could use some of that expertise now. Where you at Profi?

Mate i feel for you BUT were has the outfitter been in all this???? I have hunted russia more than eoght times and four of them in Kamchatka from here in Aussie and everything was cool,granted the russian embasy struggels to get off its ass and help,that there nature but I haven't had anywhere near the trouble you have had and when i did the outfitter contacted the embasy,had words and i got the visa. Don't let this spoil it for you because hunting in russsia in an experence not to miss

Guys, don't confuse the company Profihunt with the individual who posts here under "Profyhunter".

Russia has gotten increasingly worse about visas since the fall of the SU (go figure that!). Nevertheless, it's hard to believe the treatment Joe is getting.

Getting on a plane to Russia without a visa is not a good idea, especially with guns.

I hope things work out at the consulate. That is the place to "pay for service", not once you get off in Moscow without a visa

Yes, I want it to be clear that we are not talking about Profyhunter, I booked with the company Profihunt Ltd. And as I said I do not believe that this was their fault, but I do feel that they could have done something in the way of contacting the Russian consulate in Italy through their embassy or other connections, which I am sure they are not short on.

Ztreh:

I honestly don't think that I waited until the last minute to get myself organized here. I had both passports in for renewal at the time of booking the hunt, in March, and Profihunt readily took the booking, knowing this and telling me we had enough time to get it all done.

I sent the visa application in on the 9th of April, after being assured that it would only take 10 days to get.

Profihunt are providing new vouchers and invitations for my Italian passport, and I have found another person in the long line of "connections” that works inside the consulate who says that they think we can work it out if I go there in person. I was told that my Australian passport is probably still at the consulate and to go see them in the morning, so I am about to leave for Rome.

I later found out that they do not accept of process visa applications that are received via mail and no one is willing to believe that I was given those instructions, but how was I to formulate the idea to send it in via mail on my own? It truly does confound me as to how I was given such information, but that is the way it went.

Hindsight is 20/20, and experience is something you don’t need until it’s a few moments too late, so I feel that my only error was not employing an agency to get the visa for me, but, considering I had spoken to the consulate myself and been given clear instructions on how to do it, and being assured it would only take 10 days, I didn’t see the need to add another stop off to the process.

I hate being reduced to the last minute on something like this, even though it is encouraging to have found a person inside the consulate who will accompany me to the Vice Consoles’ office I don’t consider myself to be in the clear yet, until I have a visa in my hands.

I know this doesnt help,or make you feel better,but in my expirence with russians here in america,you can not expect them to fulfill contractual obligations ever.

quote:

Guys, don't confuse the company Profihunt with the individual who posts here under "Profyhunter".

quote:

Yes, I want it to be clear that we are not talking about Profyhunter, I booked with the company Profihunt Ltd.

Thank You for clearing that up, I DID confuse the two, my apologies Profyhunter.

I can't believe that you allowed less than 30 days to start getting all of your paperwork in order. To my way of thinking you are the one that is about 6 months late.

The outfitter said they could take the booking and get all the paperwork ready in time.

quote:

Originally posted by silkibex:

Getting on a plane to Russia without a visa is not a good idea, especially with guns.

Failing all else, and assuming he could borrow a weapon on arrival, I would absolutely advocate just getting on a plane with the invitation paperwork and everything else. Just do your best to look helpless and confused on arrival to draw out some sympathy. You are correct that I would definitely not do it with guns, but if all the flights are non-refundable, why not go for it and try to work it out on arrival? What's the worst case scenario? They tell you to go home and you do?
Having spent a lot of time in some of the less "developed" parts of the world, I can see at least a 50/50 chance of getting in. Heck, I know Americans who, having been denied a visa at the embassy, have simply shown up at the Jordan/Syria border and (granted, a few hours later) just waltzed into Syria of all places. Not an easy feat....but possible just as this probably is if all else fails and there is an unappealing prospect of losing one's hunt deposit.

quote:

Failing all else, and assuming he could borrow a weapon on arrival, I would absolutely advocate just getting on a plane with the invitation paperwork and everything else. Just do your best to look helpless and confused on arrival to draw out some sympathy... What's the worst case scenario? They tell you to go home and you do?

That sounds like horrible advice, I wouldn't do this on a bet. Why don't you just climb in your neighbors window uninvited, what's the worse that could happen? They ask you to leave? No, how about they blow your head off, or if your lucky, they call the cops and you get locked up for breaking and entering. Why? Because you went somewhere YOU WERE NOT INVITED!!

I'm not going to try and smooth talk my way in, into Russia of all places. One thing I saw very little of, actually none of, was sympathy when I was last in transit through Moscow airport.
Also, the hunt agent could not condone that, being illegal, illogical and dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Why don't you just climb in your neighbors window uninvited, what's the worse that could happen? They ask you to leave? No, how about they blow your head off, or if your lucky, they call the cops and you get locked up for breaking and entering. Why? Because you went somewhere YOU WERE NOT INVITED!!

Hardly the same thing. Technically, if they don't want to let you through passport control, you have not in fact "entered" anyplace. If things went south, you would just be put on the next plane home most likely. What's the alternative? Be out the tickets and any deposit you put down? No thanks. I guess a good portion of the "adventurers" around here like things a bit too comfy.

Normally I don't post much on any of the forums and I can't comment on anything the outfitter has or hasn't done, but I have a lot of experience with Russia, having lived and worked there for three years int he 1990's.

First thing:
If you have never been to Russia in any capacity (tourist, hunter, business); then this is one country where you do not want to "do it yourself" You should have gotten a tourist agent or an outfitter that has experience with Russia to get your visa.

Second:
You waited too long. You should have gotten the visa months ago. Again, this is a problem when dealing with the Russian government. Don't leave anything to the last minute.

Third:
Tendrams: you are an idiot. When this guy gets off the plane with no visa, and can't speak Russian he's going to get thrown in a detention cell until he can be sent back out of the country on the next flight. Trying to act stupid or "bribe" your way in can get him jail time. The Customs people over there love to hammer stupid (insert your country here). Even worse, IF he managed to bribe his way in, there's no way he'll get out of the country without an exit visa.

EXPRESS, you have my sympathy. See if you can get a refund or reschedule for next year and try again.

Back to Lurking mode...

What a lovely reply Pevtsovy.....it's nice to see that civility is alive and well on AR. The OP can do as he pleases but I would not be so passive as to completely eat my tickets and hunt deposit.

I still say Profihunts can take their fair share of the blame on this.. You would think that THEY would be the ones to get his visas and invitations organized.

But then again, they are Russians.

If I'm hunting outside of the US, I usually start planning 2 years in advance. I get all the final arrangements, paperwork, tickets, visa, etc. completely in place 12 months prior to departure.

I have a friend of mine who is taking his wife and 3 kids to RSA this summer. He is not a detail guy. I guarantee you he has done nothing and won't be ready.

AUSTIN HUNTER-- It sounds to me like you and I are the only SANE people on this forum, or at least the only ones that are organized.

Austin- I'm totally with you here, I took my business partner, his dad, and brother to Africa this past year. Couldn't get them to get the paperwork filled our for pre-approved gun permits, every time I talked to them about details...it was always "yeah yeah yeah, we're good..ect." Even though none of them had ever gone.

GUESS WHAT? The dad pull out his passport in dallas...hands it to the United lady...Expires in Dec 2009, the date, August 20, 2009... DIDN'T have six months before expiring. His happy ass got to call his wife to come pick him up, as the 5 of us went through checkin. He finally showed up after we had been there for 8 days, and missed most of his son's hunts. The best part, was he got extremely rude with out travel agent, who sent each one of us a packet full of info to read...EXCLAIMING the need for 6 months of time required from the day you leave. Did he read any of the materials...NOPE!!! And of course, I had told them all too...but he didn't say anything to me about it.

Doing any type of international hunting requires attention to detail, and months of proper planning.

Express, sorry to hear about this. I know I am late in replying but I might add something to help, perhaps?

If Profi will not help you in this late hour, one do not try to go to Russia without a valid visa and invitation. Guns or not you will not like the reception awaiting you.

There is a US based company called Go To Russia Travel based in Atlanta, Georgia with Outposts in San Francisco and I believe Texas. They have direct embassy connections and will do an express visa service that takes a minimum of 48 -72 hours.

I have hunted in Russia several times and I use these people to get my visas and my international flights to Moscow. I am away from my phone list but they are on line and have an international 800 number as well. The lady in charge in Georgia is Lenka.

I have never worked with Profi, but it seems they really should be helping out and hand carrying your visa application in this case.

Good luck, I hope you get your hunt. Russia is an interesting place to go. Wade

** Just one more suggestion. If you cannot obtain a visa and have a lost passport then I suggest you ask Profi to roll your hunt to next Spring with the mutual (contracted) understanding tht you are not penalized extra funds to do so. This is a reasonable request given the confusion that took place. You shoul be able to roll your flight as well, perhaps a small change fee, but at least you get to start over and not risk jail, or losing your money.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
What's the alternative? Be out the tickets and any deposit you put down? No thanks. I guess a good portion of the "adventurers" around here like things a bit too comfy.

Obviously, you don't know what a nonrefundable ticket really means. Granted, you're not going to get your money back, but you can change the ticket and pay the exchange fee and any additional cost difference between your original ticket and the new ticket price. Typically, you'll have between 6 and 12 months to use the ticket or you will lose it forever.

I fly about 40 weeks out of the year and I do this about a half dozen times a year as my schedule is in a somewhat fluid motion at times. I've at times been on business travel and realize I'm not going to make my orginally scheduled departure flight back home. I'll call the travel agent and do the math on what it might cost to change the original ticket to the later departure or even purchase a completely separate one-way ticket, if it is cheaper. Then, you can apply the second half of your original ticket that you didn't use to another ticket purcahse in the future.

Now, as to the deposit and money already paid on the hunt, well, that sounds like it is between EXPRESS and the outfitter, Profihunt Ltd.

EXPRESS, I wish you luck on your situation!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Wade Derby:
Express, sorry to hear about this. I know I am late in replying but I might add something to help, perhaps?

If Profi will not help you in this late hour, one do not try to go to Russia without a valid visa and invitation. Guns or not you will not like the reception awaiting you.

There is a US based company called Go To Russia Travel based in Atlanta, Georgia with Outposts in San Francisco and I believe Texas. They have direct embassy connections and will do an express visa service that takes a minimum of 48 -72 hours.

I have hunted in Russia several times and I use these people to get my visas and my international flights to Moscow. I am away from my phone list but they are on line and have an international 800 number as well. The lady in charge in Georgia is Lenka.

I have never worked with Profi, but it seems they really should be helping out and hand carrying your visa application in this case.

Good luck, I hope you get your hunt. Russia is an interesting place to go. Wade

** Just one more suggestion. If you cannot obtain a visa and have a lost passport then I suggest you ask Profi to roll your hunt to next Spring with the mutual (contracted) understanding tht you are not penalized extra funds to do so. This is a reasonable request given the confusion that took place. You shoul be able to roll your flight as well, perhaps a small change fee, but at least you get to start over and not risk jail, or losing your money.

Wade,
Good information and good advice.

Hmm, sorry to hear of the visa (and related travel) problems

I have been issued (hunting) tourist visas to both the Sovjet Union and the Russian Federation multiple times. I must admit, however, that I left this bureaucratic SNAFU to the hunting agencies through which I booked. They were all located in Western Europe and regularly send hundreds of hunters to Russia every year. I guess they knew the procedure to obtain visas, and the delay expected in obtaining these.

I also know of people who have booked with "Profihunt", which, as far as I know, is a Moscow based hunting agency?? I do not know the exact visa procedures these hunters had to go through, but they seem to have managed to enter Russia legally, so I guess visas must have been obtained. I know one of them experienced a problem with firearms import when he arrived in Moscow Airport, and had to hunt with a loaner rifle (SKS with open sights... ) on his hunt for Caucasian Tur...

It is always hard to offer advice in cases like this, but if Profihunt leaves it to their clients to sort their own visa out, I would suggest booking with an agency taking care of this for you in the future. In particular a Western agency sending a lot of hunters to Russia. In the US, one could think of Bob Kern's "Hunting Consortium", or in Europe of Westfalia or Mistral Jagdreisen.

Good luck with getting the pieces picked up. Surely Profihunt must try to help you with this??

- mike

Tendrams,
I have enough experience in that part of the world to say what I did with authority and I will repeat: it is not a good idea to arrive in Russia without a visa, with or without guns.

I would say you are giving extremely dangerous advice.

There is a big difference in showing up at a border post that may or may not decide to give you a visa and arriving in Sheremetovo without a visa hoping to sweet talk your way through. And chances are 90% that they wouldn't let him on the plane anyway.

Also see what graybird says.

Whatever. If someone wants to passively eat their hunt deposit and at the very least the airline fees for changing dates, I am not one to argue. I just wouldn't follow that course of action. Maybe that makes me an "idiot" ...fine... but at least I am proactive and not the type of person to just sit and take whatever pittance the world hands me.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
...but at least I am proactive and not the type of person to just sit and take whatever pittance the world hands me.

Correct, but you might be doing just that in a detention facility, if you show up somewhere without a visa!!

quote:

Doing any type of international hunting requires attention to detail, and months of proper planning.

Not related to this thread where the hunter started too late for whatever reasons IMO and did not have a fall back position (for instance, given the time frame, I'd have DRIVEN to the Russian embassy to get the visa, I'm not being critical but that's how I see it and I sure hope he gets to go), basically that is a crock of cow poop in my opinion. It might be true for people who have never traveled or hunted overseas, but in general, any halfway experienced hunter/traveler, assuming he has a current passport and the correct visas (which don't take that long if one is prepared to pay to play) can be ready to go in a few days at most. "Months of proper planning", give me a break. I mean, how long does it take you to pack?

Your advise tells me that you haven't been to far out of the barn nor did much international hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
Your advise tells me that you haven't been to far out of the barn nor did much international hunting.

Oh really, your "advise" (sic) tells me that you don't do much business or anything else that takes some quick decision making. I've been on at least 25 to 40 foreign hunting and fishing trips in the last 25 to 30 years, including 5 to Africa and many more to South America. NOT once in all that time did I book or schedule a trip more than 6 months in advance and most of the time it was 90 days or less. I managed to make all the trips and all the connections without all the angst and handwringing that you apparently go through. Give me any reasonable destination and I can be there ready to hunt or fish in EASILY under a week, assuming visas and paperwork and flights can be obtained. You anal-complusive types crack me up. There's a helluva lot of difference between taking care of details and worrying them like a dog with a giant bone.

quote:

There's a helluva lot of difference between taking care of details and worrying them like a dog with a giant bone.

+1

I went on an elephant/cape buffalo hunt last year in Zimbabwe with 2 weeks notice and it went as smoothly as if I had planned it for the 2 years leading up..

Now I'm not advocating that someone do this with a hunt into deep Russia because comparing Africa and Russia are 2 very diff apples indeed. I would want to plan a Russian hunt at least 3 months in advance.

Express, give us the low-down.. Did you get your visa and are leaving tomorrow?

Ok, well I’m just back from Rome and the Russian consulate. A 600 mile round trip.
I got the visa. It was easy, and I didn’t have to pay anything other than the normal visa fee.

However, and here is the big however. I highly doubt it would have happened if I hadn’t contacted all the people I did. The console invited me into his office and showed me a fax from the Italian Senate, from a Senator asking in surprisingly firm terms that I be issued with a visa immediately.
The Console seemed to be more worried about having to answer to the fax than actually issuing the visa! The Italians and the Russians are very different people, but on some things they work in the same ways. It turns out he is a fisherman and a hunter and a nice enough fellow, I invited him to come and hunt or fish on my concession in Tuscany whenever he likes.

I recognized the Senators name on the fax and realized who had put in the good word, and I told the Console not to worry about replying to the fax and that I would take care of it. I felt embarrassed but at the same time glad that something effective was working in my favour. I hate to call on favours like this, but in this case it was potentially going to cost me a hunt and a lot of money.

The Console flat out refused to accept, or believe that I had been told to send the visa application in by mail, and stated that he had sent my passport back to the address on the envelope. That was three weeks ago now, so I won’t be seeing that passport again and somehow I doubt that it was sent by mail because even ordinary mail does not get lost very often.

It seems this thread has grown into something else, some thinking I did not do my part in organizing this trip. I generally do one or two overseas trips each year, this year three. Usually to destinations most consider unconventional. I would say at a guess that I have done about 25 trips in the last 10 years.
So I and am no stranger to the formalities involved and %90 of my trips are planned and executed in less than 90 days. On this particular occasion I had in fact organized a Kamchatka bear hunt for a group of 6 people between hunters and camera crew. At the last minute one person pulled out, leading to the rest also cancelling. At that point I decided I would go and do the trip myself, however that agent was not able to do the same trip for just one person.
So I got in touch with Profihunt, who took the booking, knowing full well that my passports were both in for renewal and that I would be applying for the visa myself from here and they assured me that there would be sufficient time to get all the paperwork sorted out. I myself was not worried either.

All the other pertinent paperwork was ready weeks before the trip: Russian firearms permit, Russian invite and voucher, Italian firearms export papers, travel and health insurance, extra passport photos, copies of my ticket, organized shipping for the trophy, paid for hotel, booked, flights booked, averted the CITES commission in Italy to expedite clearance when it gets here, found a taxidermist…Everything has been ready for weeks.

Some people are incredibly apprehensive to the point of psychotic anal retention when it comes to this stuff and I am not, and it has never ever cost me any extra time or money to do a trip.

It seems that some people are missing the point. I was given false information and a false sense of security by a consulate that lead to the loss of my passport and they were not prepared to do anything about it. If I was not so lucky as to hold two passports, it would have been be game over from the beginning, with no possible means to try to resolve the matter. That is what bothers me. The Russian consulate still cost me a passport which is not something to take lightly.

Seems like I have pushed the right buttons and hit some big nerves on some members, glad I could be of service.