quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Any details ?

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
Not having permits apparently does not slow down some outfitters. With the auction process the outfitters know who got what. In 2024 on the leg from Istanbul to UB there were three Spanish speaking hunters who said they were going to hunt High Altay Argali. As I was leaving the UB airport with my outfitter he spoke to another outfitter who was going into the terminal to meet his hunters. My hunting companion mentioned that the Spanish speaking hunters said they were going to be hunting High Altay Argali. My outfitter said "that guy does not have any Altay permits". Draw your own conclusions. Those guys no doubt hunted Argali somewhere, but permitting the export of trophies would be a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Once again, I do not know if any of this is true .

The actual court documents are too long for me to post .



TOO ALL HUNTERS WHO HAVE BOOKED HUNTS IN MONGOLIA.
AT THIS MOMENT WE ARE LOSING THE TRUE MEANING OF CONSERVATION.
CORRUPTION HAS TAKEN OVER THE ENTIRE HUNTING PROCESS IN MONGOLIA
STARTING FROM THE MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT, LOCAL RANGERS, POLICE AND
POLITICIANS PARTY AND GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AT EVERY LEVEL!!!!!!
IN 2024, MR. KAAN KARAKAYA OF SHIKAR SAFARIS, AND MR. TEMIR EKENLER OF
WILD HUNTING OUTFITERS “SECURED” 14 ILLEGAL ARGALI HUNTING PERMITS,
THESE WERE ISSUED UNDER THE EXCUSE OF “SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, CULTURAL,
ARTISTIC OR MEDICAL PURPOSES” THESE PERMITS WERE NOT SOLD FOR TROPHY
HUNTING.
IF YOU HAVE HUNTED IN MONGOLIA LAST YEAR THROUGH MR. KAAN KARAKAYA OF
SHIKAR SAFARIS, OR MR. TEMIR EKENLER OF WILD HUNTING OUTFITERS, YOU WERE
NOT PART OF A LEGAL OR ETHICAL HUNT.
THIS YEAR MR. KAAN KARAKAYA AND MR. TEMIR EKENLER ARE AGAIN TRYING TO
OBTAIN 11 MORE ILLEGAL ARGALI PERMITS USING A NEW EXCUSE. FOR THE
“DELEGATIONS FOR SAVING GOBI AGAINST DROUGHT” THIS IS ANOTHER FALSE
COVER FOR ILLEGAL TROPHY HUNTING.
HERE ARE THE LOCAL PARTNERS WORKING WITH MR. KAAN KARAKAYA, AND MR.
TEMIR EKENLER SUPORTING THESE ACTIONS.
“LOOK MONGOLIA”LLC AND “STEP NOMAD”LLC- MR.T. BATTULGA
“ZEV HUNTING SAFARI”LLC- MR. D. MUNKHNARAN, FORMER ADVISOR TO THE
MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT 2024-2025
“MARMARA INTERNATIONAL”LLC- MR. JANDOS KONTORBAI
“MONGOL SAFARI”LLC= MRS. TUGSJARGAL BUYANDELGER
TO THE HUNTER ARRIVING ON 13 JULY 2025 FOR AN ALTAI ARGALI HUNT, WE ARE
OFFICIALLY INFORMING YOU THAT THERE ARE NO LEGAL HUNTING PERMITS
AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME. THE ONLY PERMITS IN BAYAN ULGI PROVINCE ARE
ILLEGALLY ISSUED UNDER THE NAME OF THE GOBI DESERT DELEGATION.
PLEASE REPORT AND SEND GPS CORDINATES TO DALLAS SAFARY CLUB OR ANY
OTHER HUNTING CLUBS IF YOU HUNTED IN 2024 OR BOOKED TO HUNT ARGALI
WITH SHIKAR SAFARIS OR WILD HUNTING OUTFITTERS.
BELOW ARE THE DECISIONS OF COURT CASES FILED AGAINST MRS. ODONTUYA
SALDAN (MINISTER OF NATURE), IN WHICH SHE WAS FOUND GUILTY OF
MANIPULATION OF CURRENT HUNTING LAWS AND THUS ILLEGALLY PARTICIPATED
IN ISSUEING EXTRA ARGALI HUNTING PERMITS IN 2024 AND 2025.
2 LEVEL OF COURT DECISIONS HAVE FOUND GUILTY OF MANIFULATION OF HUNTING
PERMITS AND BUREAU OF CORRUPTION IS CURRENTLY INVESTIGATION THESE

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
Larry: If you look at the relevant court documents, there is no mention of the permits being illegal or trophies being confiscated. The documents you are posting are what appear to be word documents attached to the court documents converted to PDF. They are clearly not written by the court, but rather a third party. They lack the relevant stamp from the Mongolian court which is present on the actual lawsuit. There is no official document that states what you posted.

While confusing, the lawsuit looks to be filed by plaintiff: Shamanistic LLC. The plaintiff Was suing the government because they disagreed with the auction as they were not included. From what i can tell, the court agreed they should be included in the auction. I do not see Kaan or Temir mentioned anywhere in the lawsuit nor do i see where they did anything illegal. Nothing in the lawsuit or decision says anything about trophies being illegal or confiscated.

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
Larry: You should be ashamed of yourself. First you post only the fabricated part of the story. Then admit you're too lazy to read the actual lawsuit. Then throw some BS around about how many people show up at an auction as the relevant ethical driver of that auction. Obviously, you didn't give this any thought. Jeez.

I can vouch for Temir and Kurcat as ethical and law abiding. They take care of their local guides and have relationships with them beyond just hunting. I know both of them personally and have hunted with them. I'll be with them in Mongolia next week and none of this nonsense bothers me at all.

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
Yes, it makes you lazy or unethical. Everyone has stuff going on. Get over it.

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
1. Correct, but you only posted part of the information floating around the internet. The fraudulent and clearly least reliable part.

2. Never said you wrote it, but you cut and pasted a portion. The fraudulent portion.

3. The portion you posted is absolutely not true.

4. Good.

5. Perhaps you should have found a better spot in your hectic schedule to post the entire story.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
1. Correct, but you only posted part of the information floating around the internet. The fraudulent and clearly least reliable part.

2. Never said you wrote it, but you cut and pasted a portion. The fraudulent portion.

3. The portion you posted is absolutely not true.

4. Good.

5. Perhaps you should have found a better spot in your hectic schedule to post the entire story.

BA,
Get over yourself. Larry is one of the finest members here and his integrity and willingness to share hard learned info is obvious to all except that that tend get defensive when his answers don't match pre-decided opinions.

Listen to Larry and back off. He is far better at this than most here.

quote:

Originally posted by BA:
Thanks for the comments.

This is really simple. Larry posted only a part of the story. If you look at the information available, the part he posted was obviously misinformation. He failed to post what the lawsuit was about because he was too busy. The lawsuit and what he posted are completely different. I am making the point that one should be held to a standard to post the full story. Especially if he is a well respected member of an online forum, FWIW. Larry didn’t. So I would like to know why you guys think I am in the wrong for calling someone out for not posting the entire story?

As an FYI, I don’t represent anyone. Not Shikar or WildHunting. So don’t make that connection.

I’m sure Larry is great, but just because someone posts a bunch on a forum doesn’t mean his word is gospel.