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I dearly love going to Argentina to hunt doves and ducks. While I love it, I find the dove hunting painful in places other than my wallet. I tend to have two issues. The first is swelling and stiffness in my right hand (trigger hand). The second is soreness in the right cheek near the jawbone. Of course, shooting 2,000 to 3,000 rounds a day will take a toll. Does anyone have any remedy's for these issues? I recently saw (very briefly)on a TV show what appeared to be something that went over the stock on the side where the stock would be on ones face. I am not sure what it was. Thanks. | ||
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yeah get a lead sissy pad its what we call em up here in canada no 1 uses them cept for elderly trap/bird shooters but i would think itll take care of your problem also a olympic style shoulder padded leather pad will also help or both. | |||
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Sounds like you are not mounting the gun consistently and your face gets slapped with each shot. The gun may not fit you and you are getting slapped. I would first make sure the gun fits and practice gun mounts. Beretta makes a gel pad that goes over the comb of a gun stock that may help. You can try taking Motrin for duration of the hunt to keep swelling and pain down in your hand. | |||
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Larry, I know you are very fond of your Benellis, give a Beretta a try sometime. I usually shoot 100 boxes per day in Argentina and have no problem with recoil on my cheekbone with a 391 in 20 gauge. I think the felt recoil between the gas operated Beretta and the recoil operated Benelli is half to me. | |||
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Check out Vibration Dampening Gloves. Industrial supply shops, motorcycle shops and saftey equipment all carry this type of gear. I like PAST pads to reduce felt recoil. Moleskin added to the stock comb helped me. Yackman | |||
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Shooting 28 ga resolved the recoil problem for me. Last trip I took old ear plugs and that was a mistake. My ears rang for a couple of weeks. (Guess that's what happens to an old artilleryman that did lots of shooting with cigarette butts for ear plugs before the Army started giving us plastic ear plugs.) Next trip I'm taking new plugs and a pair of muffs. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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Maybe stick some moleskin on the side of your cheek where your getting soreness?? Might help. Maybe take a gun that has been fitted for you as well? Not sure if you take your own or borrow them but a fitted shotgun works wonders | |||
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Custom made ear plugs are great for that much shooting.... on the recoil, they make a gel pad for the comb, but it changes the way the gun fits..... No matter how you paint it, 2500 or 3000 shells hurt, specially if they are 12 gauge..... | |||
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Thanks gentlemen. The issue involves neither hearing or shoulder issues. It it my right hand and cheek. Does anyone know where to get one of these gel pads? I am reluctant to put moleskin on my stock for a variety of reasons. I have to wonder if the moleskin would end up rubbing the skin off of your face. Thanks. | |||
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You might try Beretta's web site. Brownells also has a Comb-raising kit that has foam inserts in five sizes for a fully adjustable comb height. They also have a few cheek pads. Search cheek pad on their site. They may have a gel pad too but I couldn't find it in the catalog. I'd give 'em a call. You have problems some of us just dream about. God Bless, Louis | |||
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Thank you sir. | |||
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It might not hurt to call these guys, Larry. http://www.cheeknstock.com/main.html I am not endorsing the product in any way because my only experience with it is finding it on the 'net. Maybe this combined with moleskin stuck on your face??  ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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Good suggestions here. I was going to say try a 391 too. It is the softest shooting shotgun save for the Super X One that I know of. Somewhere after 1500 or so I get some soreness too - but hey I am not as young as used to be or as in shape either LOL. What always hurt is my thumbs from shoving shells in the magazine and past the carrier. Some thin calf skin or other gloves that you like can help too as the barrel get hot too as you know. | |||
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Thanks gentlemen. I have some outstanding gloves. They are made by a company known as Gripswell. They are well padded and have protection against the heat. Still, my right hand tends to swell and get stiff. | |||
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Larry: I'm thinking a second glove for the right hand is a must have. My right hand was sore for ten days, swollen too. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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I dont care for gloves except the long ones when setting decoys .... I just keep my hands in my pocket or close in if it really really cold. But when I was in Dallas once I went to the Beretta store and tried on several different pairs until I found justt he right one that were tight enough, thin enough, the whole Goldilocks thing until I had some just right. With some mods for the trigger finger I never know they are there much . The thumb can get worn though so get several if you find some you like. Before I had the big leg injury and was an aspiring tennis pro to be LOL I used to tape several spots on my fingers on my racket hand. Not to prevent blisters, but to stop the heavy callous that occurred there. I never tried it for shooting though. | |||
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I was thinking of moleskin on your face. I use it sheephunting on sensitive spots on my feet so I don't get blisters. It keeps the rubbing away that forms blisters. It was just a thought and a cheap fix although your hunting partners might chuckle a little with the new look. I am reluctant to put moleskin on my stock for a variety of reasons. I have to wonder if the moleskin would end up rubbing the skin off of your face. | |||
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Larry, I have just rubbed some baby powder on my cheek. It keeps your skin from sticking to the stock and doesn't change your guns fit. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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@larryshores - What gauge are you shooting 2,000 to 3,000 rounds with ? - Do you take your own gun(s) or are you using the lodge gun(s) ? | |||
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I take my own guns. Generally, I have shot a 20 GA Benelli Cordoba. This last trip, I took the Cordoba plus my new Benelli 28 and a sweet little Italian made 410 O/U. The 28 is great. However, it is so light, I do not think there is a big difference between it and the 20 as it relates to recoil. The hand is the most difficult issue. I have fantastic gloves, yet I still get a lot of swelling and stiffness. My hand surgeon girlfriend thinks I should take Celebrex starting several days before I start shooting. I am going to try that. Thick moleskin on the face might work if it will stay on when I haven't shaved for a day or five . Sweating may also cause a problem. I am going to get one of those cheek pads and give it a try. Thanks gentlemen. | |||
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@larryshores Here are couple of suggestions. You need to get one of these. www.cabelas.com Item Number: IK-229478 Past Ambidextrous Recoil Shields If you are shooting in Argentine Summer then "Summer Weight" Gloves from http://www.thegunglove.com/ No matter if you are shooting 20 gauge or 28 gauge, the accumulative recoil per day will add up in tons (turning a bit mathematical on you here ) So if you are taking your personal guns then: 1) Get them fitted to you by a proper gun-fitter (cost of a proper gun fit usually runs quite high). If you are not a gun fitter by trade then let a professional do the gun fitting for you. Just by adding pads or moleskins which may have worked for someone else may not work for you. Hell it may even impact your shooting. 2) Look into getting a recoil system installed. I can make specific recommendations if you want on that. 3) Always let the bird boy load your guns for you. Shooting 2,000 to 3,000 rounds per day is not to be taken lightly. Proper gunfit is the final key . | |||
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http://www.gripswell.com/gs12.php I love these gloves with the link above. I have used various others. The Gripswell are far superior to anything I have come across. I always let my bird boy load. I may load a shell here or there but 99% of the time the bird boy loads. I will look into the fitting. Thanks. | |||
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Larry, It puzzles me why your right hand should hurt. The cheek I can understand. I can only see two ways that it can occur. The first is if your hand is taking some of the recoil. If anything the gun should be pulling away from your hand rather than hitting it unless your fingers are being hit by the back of the trigger guard. The other way is if you are taking a death grip on the pistol grip and the added strain of that is affecting your hand. I think you need to determine the cause before you seek a solution. 465h&H | |||
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BTW: The new Evoshield shirt and custom molded ceramic recoil pad are an absolute must have for volume shooters. A Gamechanger. The old Past pad will quickly go the way of the Dodo, I believe. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Will: You are absolutely right. I think both of us left Los Chanares with our shoulders in a lot better shape than some of our fellow shooters that did not have those shirts. I did not even have a mark on my shoulder. Some looked horrible. 465: I don't know. It happens every year. it has actually been worse. The first year I went, i shot a 20 GA O/U. My hand was all swollen and was black. I could feel my hand grind as I opened and closed it. I had severe tendinitis. Will said the same thing happened to him. Thanks gentlemen. | |||
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My first dove hunt in Argentina beat the crap out of my face. It felt like I mouthed off in the wrong bar. After that I got my guns fitted for me. The difference is unbelievable. Hardly any soreness on my face and jaw. Get your gun fitted to you and you will enjoy your next trip much more and your shooting percentage will go up. I haven't found anything that helps with my hands other than working out. Working out to increase my grip strength helps some since you are swinging that shotgun around a lot during a dove shoot. But the repeated recoil still makes my right hand sore. There are some gel palm pistol shooting gloves but I haven't found one with full fingers which you really need. I have gone to golf gloves which seem to hold up better for Argentina dove shooting better than any other glove I have used. I once wore the trigger finger and thumb off a pair of Bob Allen shooting gloves the first morning. I hope that helps Steve | |||
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Gentlemen: Can you expand on this gun fitting? Thanks. | |||
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@larryshores I am going to set the bar for what is considered high volume....if someone barely shoots a case or two (250 to 500) rounds a year for hunting/clays then they can skip what I am about to write here. A fine suit is always fitted to you by a tailor. You never want to wear pants that are too long, or too short, or a jacket that is tight at the waste, or has arms too long. So the same principle applies for a shotgun. It has to, it must, fit you in order for you to shoot it correctly. The biggest advantages of a properly fitted shotgun are: #1) Ability to shoot with both eyes open, as God intended man to shoot the shotgun with both eyes open. If someone shoots a shotgun when squeezing the trigger with one eye closed (like shooting a rifle) then they have my sympathy. It is not their fault....they were never educated properly on the use of a shotgun, and by the way their fault can be corrected. #2) Wear and tear on your body. A properly fitted gun will not beat your hands, arms, face, nose, cheeks, etc, up. This is usually not a concern for occasional shooters who may shoot opening day for doves, may hunt grouse and woodcock in fall, go on weekends for duck hunting in the States. By wear and tear I mean the punishment you may receive at an Argentinian high volume shoot say a 3 day shoot with 3,000 rounds per day = 9,000 rounds in a short period of time. Or an intensive Sporting Clays tournament where you are shooting couple of cases of shells over a few days. Some of us Sporting Clays shooters shoot over 50,000 rounds per year. 4 cases per week, that is 1,000 shells per week, is quite normal for someone who is practicing hard to make the NSCA State Team, Zone Team, or All-American team in a given year. So 2 to 3 cases for practice and 100 to 200 rounds for a tournament over a weekend are the norms for a focused Master class shooter. A shotgun is a dynamic weapon of movement and the proper gun fit maximizes the process of the gun mount. It helps maintain your body's balance throughout the shot. There are many variable which a professional gunfitter has to keep in mind when fitting your gun to you. Here are some of the important ones: - Determining Eye-dominance - Length of Pull - Drop at Heel - Drop at Comb - Cast - Pitch - Grip - Comb Thickness - Point of Impact Shot placement i.e. fit for 60/40; 70/30; or 50/50 A good gunfitter will bring in a gizmo called a "Try-Gun" which he (there are no female gun fitters so you will need to deal with a male  ) can constantly adjust to get your correct fit.Idea is that after the gun-fitting session is over, and he gives you your personal dimesnions sheet, which you can then take to a shotgun manufacturer and get a gun fitted to you. Even off the shelf guns can be sent to people who specialize in fitting them to your dimensions. So a gun-fitting session by a certified gun-smith is probably the most important thing that you should treat yourself to. The British have been doing this for couple of decades longer than us. Luckily there are many top of the line British gun-fitters right here in the USA. A gun-fitting trip to a master gun-fitter is probably as exciting as a trip to Argentina for a true shotgun enthusiast. The one I highly recommend is Mr Chris Batha....a true gentleman and one of the best in my opinion. http://www.chrisbatha.com/customgunfit.html . | |||
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What Collector said. Perfect. | |||
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Larry: I'd guess your cheek & jaw issues can be mitigated with proper gun fit and perhaps some after-market equipment. But your hand will be another matter. You need to see a doctor. Think carpal tunnel, as well as damage to the ulnar nerve and beyond. You may have impaired nerve function as high as your neck. Which may very well be influenced by repeated recoil, even though you don't realize it. Shooting a shotgun as much as you do, from the various angles and positions typical to dove and duck shooting, is not a natural movement for the shoulder, neck and spine. I just went through an ulnar nerve transposition and carpal tunnel surgery. Both conditons my doc attributed to repeated motion on the golf course, in the gym-----and with the shotgun. See a doctor and have a nerve conduction study undertaken. It's quick and painless, and they can tell you what the problem is. Seriously, you should consider this. 114-R10David | |||
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Gun fitting is pretty exact with a good fitter so take whatever gun you want to use to the fitting. Your measurements change from o/u to sxs, pistol vs straight grip, thin shirt for early season, thick coat for late season. Wear what you would for Argentina and the fitter will estimate your measurements for different types of shotguns. Some do not use a try gun but have some gestalt way of calculating your fit at the pattern plate. | |||
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COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER....... | |||
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I am curious, can someone explain the attraction of shooting such large numbers of birds/waterfowl? You don't eat them, you don't mount them on the wall, there is no record book or size scoring system. Somebody telling me that they shot seven hundred ducks or doves one day, how would you compliment someone for a feat like that? We limit them here so that our children get to shoot some. Every hen or female dove shot is 6-12 minimum young birds that will not hatch. I am just curious... Rich | |||
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Usually anywhere you shoot that many they are considered a pest, so the whole point is to kill as many as possible... Same reason why anyone would play a round of golf, its just fun... | |||
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the golfing equivalent to this volume is going to a driving range and hitting 700 four foot putts. Seems boring from here, maybe you should have to clean every one you shoot and pluck them by hand. I asked a few of my friends who are big in DU. Their opinions are about like mine. Slaughter just for the sake of killing. Do what you need to make $$$... Rich | |||
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Amazing. These birds do not migrate like our birds do here. They have 4-6 hatches a year. There are so many that they typically destroy 35-40% of the crops. The farmers have 3 choices as follows: 1- Go bankrupt due to the devastation of the crops by the doves. 2- Have them shot and make a bit of money off of it. 3- Poison the roosts and kill every living thing not just the doves. It should also be noted that these birds provide most of the protein the locals eat. If you don't like it or understand it that is fine with me. I will enjoy my trip in July regardless. | |||
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The more rigid DU guys are going to complain or at least dislike the somewhat liberal duck limits there you can bet. But as for the doves, it would be like having tens of millions of badgers, prairie dogs, and ground squirrels, etc in the croplands of Nebraska all the way to Idaho. And having them destroy up to 50% of the agriculture there. That is roughly equivalent to the dove in Argentina. When you put up lodges and it turns into a sporting situation, mix in some guns, a lot of shooting, and a few guys with some money, and ultimately you will draw the ire of somebody somewhere. There are more unpleasant ways to deal with it but this is good and it helps all the way around. And it is fun. | |||
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Operating within those parameters, I do not think that you would get it even if I tried to explain it. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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have you ever done it? NO? try it once, its easier to try than to explain... | |||
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