G'day guys 'n' girls. Here's the problem, I have serious spinal injuries, from a helicopter crash. Now, I'm lucky my Doc is also a shooter. Since I can no longer hack the recoil of a 12g, and his 20g, which I borrowed, put me back in the spinal unit at the Hospital after only 6 shots, he has suggested a 28g.
The gun will be used mostly for skeet, and (if I ever walk again, which is looking more and more likely!) for the occasional walk after rabbits and pigeons, quail or pheasent.
Any suggestions? Keep in mind I cannot have an auto (I live in OZ, and we all know that autos are the Devils work!), but a good reasonably priced double.
I had thought of the Beretta 686S, any thoughts?

Cheers, Dave.

I think the little 28 will do what you need . I started using one this fall because of a shoulder injury and have found it a good killer on pheasant at resonable distances . The recoil of the target loads is very mild and they are quite effective on doves and barn pigeons .

There are anumber of 28 s built on 20 ga. frames so they run a bit heavier than a 28 should , sounds like one of those would be a good fit for your situation......

Sambar,
Sorry to hear about your accident. Hope you heal quickly.
I think you are spot on about the 28 ga 686s. I shot one that a client brought down and it is an awesome gun, fun as the dickens and deadly at incredible ranges. You will not believe how far out you can kill with that little 28 untill you do it yourself. This is a caliber that expert shooters use. It is just wonderful to hear the quiet discharge, feel only a slight push and see the bird fold and drop stone dead. You will love it. The 686s is a fine well balanced gun. Gives you a woody just to look at it let alone hold it and shoot it. I have killed many birds with 28 all the way up to coscoroba swan in size.

Thanks for the tips guys, I think I might place an order for one (none in OZ at the moment!), btu the dealer mentioned a that there is a 686s combo with 20g and 28g BBLs. Doesn't cost much extra, considering the extra work of fitting the BBLs. Since my daughter is keen to start shooting, do you think it would be worth it to get the combo, so that, if she wants, she could use the 20's?

Cheers, Dave.

Sambar 9.3,
I have a number of 20 gauges and one 28 which I really like. Bear in mind that a 20 gauge with a 3/4 ounce payload will give you the same recoil as a 28 and even less if the 20 is a bit heavier. It may be difficult to find a 3/4 ounce load if you do not reload. You can also find a mate who reloads and have him build you some. The 28 gauge ammo also costs about 50% more and makes reloading almost a necessity. I have been using Winchester AA HS cases for the 28, they have very long life.

If your main use is going to be skeet, you might even try a .410. They have no recoil to speak of. They are a bit more difficult to break clays but they will do it if you do your part. I have a 20 gauge that has a set of .410 Briley tubes installed and it is like shooting a BB gun, with much greater results.

Good luck on your recovery.

You won't save any recoil over a 20 ga. with a lighter 28 ga. but it's a neater gun. I just got home from hunting wild South Dakota pheasants, and shot my limit every day with my 28 ga. double. There were 6 of us and I was also the only one who didn't cripple and lose a bird. It seems to kill as well as any 20 I've owned.

Have you considered an auto like a Remington 1100 in 28 ga, much softer shooting than an O/U. Might even try one in 20 ga. just a thought.

KWard, yes I would love to have a nice, soft shooting gas auto. Pity I live in OZ, where such firearms are veiwed as the work of the Devil, and to stamped out at all costs!
Actually it's not qite that bad, but I can't get one for hunting.
Targets, that's fine. Hunting with an auto? EVIL!.

I did see a second hand Beretta combo 20g/28g yesterday, but the guy changed his mind about selling at the last minute. Pissed me off, but I can't really blame him, nice little outfit.

Guess I'll just have to keep looking.

BTW, thanks for the tip about the handloads, a guy at the club will load me some 7/8ths oz at 1200 fps. Tried somee of his, worked OK for about 12 or so shots, then the old pain set in.
Might work ok for walking up rabbits , hares , and quail.
At least until I find something better.

Thanks for all the help guys, keep it coming!

Cheers, Dave.

I agree with jstevens observations on the killing power of the 28 versus 20 . Considering the chokes in my gun I can see zero difference between it and any 20 I have owned; unless you go to a 3 inch shell .

I have tried out a bunch of 20 s and I have never found one I really liked as well. Sambar , if you get a good 28 that fits you I'd wager you will still be shooting it long after you're healed up.

Twenty-eights are super little guns.

If you really want to minimize recoil (and economize also) you can get some 28 gauge inserts for a 12 O/U. The heavy 12 gauge frame will dampen the 28 gauge recoil to practically nothing.

Sorry to hear about your back .
I have a hernyated disk at L3 L4

Can you pick up a 12 and carry it ?
If so I would start loading 12 gau loads using 7/8 or even 3/4 oz .

Allaint and other have good lite loads .

I started my neices and neffue out shooting 7/8 using bullseye at 1100 fps or slower.
Almost no felt recoil.

Johnch

I agree with Johnch.. I load light 7/8 oz loads for my over and under 12ga, and recoil is very mild. I know you can't have one, but others can get the Beretta 390 and get the low power springs from Cole Guns, and shoot light loads like these in an auto for even less felt recoil. I've shot 28ga for years, and love it for quail, hungarian partridge and dove... but it lacks some killing power for pheasant and bigger grouse. If you get the hotter loads for the bigger birds, you're at the same perceived recoil (since most 28ga are sub 6lbs) as a 12ga with a similiar performance light load..

my .02

Al

Al, thanks for that. I tried a set of 28g Brierly inserts in a 12g Beretta 686 ultralight (about 6lbs) and they worked fine. Barely noticed the recoil, and the gun was a dream to handle.
another fellow from the clay target club has offered to load some 12g 5/8ths loads at 1200fps. I tried some of his, and through the standard 686 they were barely noticable.
And the guy who decided not to sell his 20/28g combo let me shoot it. What a dream. Think I might just have to order one. But with twin triggers, for a field gun. For now though, I'm going to take the fellow from the clay target club up on his offer of those real light loads.
Keep the ideas and advice coming guys!

Cheers, Dave.

If you have the money get a Bill Hanus AYA S&S bird gun in 28ga. I have one in 20ga and its the best gun I ever shot. Wish I could afford a 28ga also.

Donato

I'll agree on the AYA, great gun, however I hunt with an Ugartechea, half the money and it handles and feels the same as the AYA. My 28 ga. weighs just a shade over 5 pounds.

Donato and jstevens,

Yes, but those are light guns and won't reduce recoil for Sambar, right?

BTW, I've got a Grulla and an AyA, and I've been thinking about an Uggie.

Jstevens, who'd you get yours from?

Steve

As I said in an earlier post, it won't change recoil much. I bought my 28 ga. Uggie, which is a grade II used from a pawn shop of all places. I was about ready to order one new from Lion Country Supply and just happened across it.

One thing you also might consider is Fiocchi makes 3/4 oz. training loads for the 20ga.

Thanks for the info guys. If anyone can come up with any other suggestion, keep it coming!

Merry Christmas.

Cheers, Dave.

Another thought is to purchase a 28 ga O/U or SBS. Then installed the mercury tube/s in the stock for an additional decrease of recoil. The tubes will significantly decrease the felt recoil. Good luck on a speedy recover.

Sambar, the more I think about it, I feel you would be best served with a .410. Particularly for skeet. It is a more difficult gauge to master but if you are on, it will break the birds. The recoil is virtually nonexistent and will still be in a lightweight gun. That and they are a ball to shoot. I have a tubed 20 gauge that I use but often shoot a friends Browning .410 O/U and love it.

I wish I had something sarcastic I could say about Customstox! Seriously, I have a lightning 20 I use exclusively on pheasants. I love it. I also have a Superposed in 28 that is a bit heavier than the 20 and will not take a back seat to it.

Jim, I can't imagine catching you at a loss for words. See you in Reno, hopefully

Sambar 9.3

For what it's worth to you, I used to bring boxes of 28ga. ammo to the lady who co-owned with her husband a Canadian lodge. She regularly shot ruffed grouse (the real kind, not spruce grouse) with a 28 ga. I always found it to be a depressing sight after I had missed with a 12 ga.! A very deadly load in the hands of someone who knows how to use it! I also have seen a young man, one morning, the son of the franchise owner of a trap range, use a 410 and run off a straight 25 at trap. (We old types debated about shooting him as a young smart ass!) I guess the point I want to make is that you will become proficient in using a shotgun that most of us can't be good with. My best wishes to you. That I do mean!

Thank you gerry375. First, I have to find a 28g. Then I have to become proficient with it! But then, a 28g and a day at the range is better than a 12g and not being able to shoot it.
We too have the 'smart arse' shooters, those annoying types who rattle off 25 straight time and again. Most depressing, (best I ever managed was 3 consecutive 24's) isn't it?

Merry Christmas.

Cheers Dave.

Thanks for all the advice folks, I have decided to order a Beretta 686s with twin triggers, and multi chokes. 28G, and a semi pistol grip (a little more open than standard) and 28" BBLs. An 8 month wait.
Ah well, maybe next years quail season.

Cheers, Dave.

Late add-on here......I've used a 28 gauge shotgun (Rem 870) for over 20 years on dove and quail, and it ALWAYS goes along for dove and quail season openers. The gauge has pattern efficiency that outdoes its shotload weight, for sure. LOTS easier to carry around all day, too.

G'day all. Good news from Beretta, apparently someone has cancelled an order, and they now have one 28g (686S) available for shipment. Looks as though I will not have to wait until next year, after all!

Thanks for all the tips and help.

Cheers, Dave.

Dave:

That's great news about the earlier delivery of the Beretta 28 ga! I'm really glad for you about that. Please keep us posted on your progress with the 28 ga. PLEASE NOTE - No excuse for misses that "it's a really small gauge, you know" will be accepted! Regards

You will be pleased you spent the money on a mercury tube in the stock and a good recoil pad.

I did both and really like what it did for my 12 ga when shooting 100 straight.


Good Luck

quote:

Then installed the mercury tube/s in the stock for an additional decrease of recoil. The tubes will significantly decrease the felt recoil.

Just got back from the gunshop, the 28g is there and waiting for the paperwork to catch up with it! It handles like a dream, very well balanced, and about 5 3/4lbs. Last years model (on a 20g frame), not the new one on a dedicated 28g frame, so it should soak up the recoil a little better.
Now to get to the range and see how badly my skills have dropped off over the past couple of years!

Dave, congratulations, you will love the 28.

Sambar 9.3 (Dave)

I realize you only just got in the 28 ga. but I hope you will keep us posted about your experiences with it. (There's a lot of us Yanks pulling for you -even if you are a damn Aussie!)

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Thanks for the tips guys, I think I might place an order for one (none in OZ at the moment!), btu the dealer mentioned a that there is a 686s combo with 20g and 28g BBLs. Doesn't cost much extra, considering the extra work of fitting the BBLs. Since my daughter is keen to start shooting, do you think it would be worth it to get the combo, so that, if she wants, she could use the 20's?

Cheers, Dave.

That's an outstanding idea. BTW, the 20 ga. 3/4 oz. loads aren't all that easy on the shoulder. They are usually higher velocity and in a light gun will bump you a bit (your daughter too). I'd start her on the 28 and let her move up to the 20 later. The 28 is the perfect starter gun for almost anyone.
Kokanee

28 ga. is my favorite skeet gun. Be sure that you get one that is heavy enough -- it should be 8 lbs. or more -- as a light gun will recoil as much as a heavier 20 ga.

You might also go for a .410. For skeet, I think a 410 will break as many targets as the larger guns if you do your part.

Another solution is to load your own and load them to a lesser velocity. Most skeet loads are loaded for about 1200 feet per second, but you don't really need that much power to break targets at the short ranges of a skeet field. You can load to 1100 f.p.s., or even 1050. A 3/4 oz 28 ga. load, loaded to 1100 f.p.s., in an 8 pound shotgun, would give you a quite mild, light-kicking load.

I should add that O/U guns in 28 ga built on 28 or 20 ga frames will be much lighter than 8 lbs. The best way you could get a heavier gun in the 8 to 9 pound range would be to get a 12 ga O/U and then have 28 ga tubes put in it -- you could also get .410 tubes, and then use the set that gives you the least trouble because of your physical difficulties.

Having the heavy gun would be very good and an advantage for skeet because in skeet shooting you don't really carry the gun far but you shoot it a lot in quick succession, so the recoil taming advantage of gun weight is a big plus.

When you are able to walk and want to hunt, such a gun will no doubt be too heavy, but then you can use your light weight 28 ga gun for carrying into a hunting field. Since you don't shoot so many shots when hunting, and you tend to space them out a lot, the harder kick from the lightweight gun will not be so physically punishing.

Dave:

LLoyd Eby sounds like he knows what he's talking about. I forgot the weight factor in my earlier remarks to you about a shotgun.(I always have been happily indifferent to recoil. Muzzle blast always bothered me) There is a sharper recoil because the shotgun comes back quicker against the shoulder- in light shotguns - in the sense that the firearm recoils more quickly. (it's kind of a trade off) If we were talking of rifles, we would say that such and such a rifle "kicks" like heck! - and another doesn't. I found the 375 H&H an absolute pleasure to shoot. I also found my PH's 470 N.E. an equal pleasure to shoot. Why? Because they "pushed" against my shoulder and didn't give me a real "kick" - like a 7mm Rem. Mag. It really all depends on how one conditions oneself to firing a shotgun/rifle - and that, as in all decisions about firearms - is yours alone. Good luck, my Aussie friend.

I have a Parker that as I remember weighs about 5.7#. It is a delight to use in the fleld. I also have a Caesar Guerini 20 ga that is not to far behind. It is also very nice. I do like the 28 as aquail gun. The Parker is so small that you don't notice it. At my age that's a plus!

Well guys, most disappointing! I just got back from the afternoon shoot at the local range, and I'm sorry to say that the scores have dropped from 22-23/25 all the way down to 16-17/25.
The good news is the gun fits beautifully and shoots like a dream! Scarcely noticable recoil (Win 3/4oz 9's) and best of all, NO PAIN!
Now to get out of the wheelchair, and back out chasing bunnies and quail!

Dave:

Good to hear that you are out at the range with the new 28 ga. I don't know if you are shooting skeet or trap. I'm much more familiar with trap and will assume that if it's a trap range that it is 16 yard trap. I won't praise you for scoring 16-17 out of 25 -because I know you want to be out of the chair. Just in case it got you down a little may I ask whether the misses occurred at the #4 or #5 stations in trap -where sometimes a "hard right" is needed - and you don't yet have the mobility of movement to do it? If so, patience is the order of the day. As the ancient Romans say: "Festina lente". (Yes, Dave, I do remember not to cross swords with you about Latin!) ( A lot of us "Yanks" up here are impressed with your performance so far! ( (Damn it! I was determined not to praise you!)