Funny thing you should mention you're taking extra parts or an extra gun. I wonder why. I don't have to with my O/U's

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Funny thing you should mention you're taking extra parts or an extra gun. I wonder why. I don't have to with my O/U's

Go back and read my last post - carefully. THE LASt TIME THE OLD REMINGTON 870 WAS USED IT WAS LOANED TO A GENTLEMAN WITH A BRWONING O/U - A BROWNING O/U THAT HAD STOPPED SHOOTING.
I own - and use - O/U's, pumps and other autos's. And I have been around long enough to know that things mechnical break, they fail and they malfunction, be it boats, autos, planes, guns or fishing gear. And if you are going to NOT take some spare parts and pieces, even a spare gun or rod as I advocate, then I sincerely hope some kind soul such as myself will take pity on your dumb butt and lend you one when and if your's does fail. 'nuf said?

My sentiments exactly, only difference I see is you are planning on something breaking, or hoping it does. Sounds like a little bit of rationalization. And how is it you think I have a dumb butt? 'nuf said.

Just got back this AM.

113 boxes of ammo, 20ga, and not a single failure, not even a failure to eject. The Bennelis did not prove to be 100%.

"nuf said.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry:
Jim,
I have no idea how many shells you run a year thru your Lightning 20 but I have run something between 5 to 6,000 rounds thru my 20 Benelli with no malfuntions. I have a matching 12 that has been shot no where near as much but again...no malfuntions. I sell guns for a living and I have sold Benelli for years and seen on two back to me that had a problem. On one Super 90 a small part was broken but it did not cause the gun to fail...they brought it in for replacement after the shoot. The other gun had a magazine tube that was too small in one end and caused the magazine spring to bind up. Once that part was replaced it worked fine. Both of these guns were very early imported guns...in the H&K import era.
Now...your Browning is a fine O/U but I can assure you that at some point in time your Jap or your Belgian O/U will break a part. Any competion shooter can damn near tell you to the exact round it will happen be it the Jap gun or the Belgian gun.
I find I must disagree with your statement.
I have a full time gunsmithing service and we do not see what you claim. As an end user of Benelli (both are H&K import era) I don't find your statements to hold water either.

I work on Benellis occasionally, most need cleaning. And I agree that O/U's aren't trouble free at all. I do a lot of work on them. Rugers Brownings Berettas and some expesive Gambas etc. One Sporting clays customer has a browning suerposed that is constantly in for repair. Always different parts but mostly ejector problems. I've had to make a couple parts as they are getting hard to find. This is a $12K high end gun. I finally had to convert it to extractors to save him money. Too bad. That gun was making my truck payments . Rugers have some QC problems (oversize chambers etc) SKB's have firing pin issues. To be honest, I probably see less serious problems with 1100's in high volume guns than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Just got back this AM.

113 boxes of ammo, 20ga, and not a single failure, not even a failure to eject. The Bennelis did not prove to be 100%.

"nuf said.

So, we are safe in assuming you do not like Benelli's - correct? Why don't you come back and tell us EXACTLY why "The Bennelis did not prove to be 100%.?" I for one would like to know. And to add fuel to your argument, I have helped install a couple or three "speed" kits in Benelli's - S/S tubes, new springs, etc. at $100 a pop from Brownell’s - and I don't think this should be necessary in any gun that cost what the SBE's do. Be fair to Benelli re the use of light loads in the SBE, read the fine print: “Minimum recommeded load, use 3-dram 1 1/8 oz. loads in ALL BENELLI 12 GA. SEMI AUTO SHOTGUNS." So, what should you expect if you shoot wimp loads?

One thing that has not been mentioned here, to my knowledge at least, is the absolute necessity to remove the butt stock, then to clean and lube the recoil spring, tube and etc. This is not just for the Benelli's but the Remington's, etc. Dirt, rust, guts and feathers seem to find their way down the tube and this is guaranteed to slow down and stop these autos from functioning. Annually at a minimum, in my opinion.

BTW, to continue to throw gas on the flame here, aren't the Browning O/U's notorious for trigger problems due to the recoil/inertia reset for the second shot? I shot many rounds through a Browning “Broadway†and it was never very reliable for the second pull on doubles. Just my bad luck or what? Oh, the rib shot loose on that Broadway but it was US Navy property so I don’t know how it was repaired. Same thing happened to my Winchester 101 O/U but Winchester did a splendid repair to re-attach the rib and it has had thousands of rounds through it since with no further problems. And a lot of our local shooters with the various Browning and Citori O/U’s seem to have chronic spring and firing pin problems – usually the bottom barrel quits firing - do you ever see these? Figure on about $40-50 here locally to fix this problem.

And if you don’t like the SBE’s then so be it – don’t buy one. Simple, is it not?

113 boxes of ammo- WOW- almost 3000 rounds and only 3 birds

Well...maybe I got lucky.

Oh, I will not buy a Benelli and I am through blating them. My original post was not to criticize, only to open the eyes of the wary.

Jim

I have done high volume shooting in Argentina on a number of different trips. In fact, the place I go hosts Benelli's annual shoot.

When I go I shoot a thousand rounds in the morning and a thousand in the afternoon for 4 days. 8,000 rounds in 4 days is a hell of a lot of shooting. I have shot with both the Citori O/U and the Benelli.

My observations are as follows:
>ANY gun shot this many times is going to have some issues.

>Those cheap ass CAZA shells are the dirtiest
buring shells I have ever seen and contribute to most of the problems.

>The Citori O/U is not without problems. The ejectors stop extracting the shells after less than 100 rounds unless one continually cleans the chamber.

The O/U is far easier on the fingers when it come to loading.

The cumulative effect of recoil on the body from shooting 8,000 rounds in 4 days is far worse than the Benelli.

I have experienced the debris from the shells to cause the gun to not shoot and for that matter to not lock properly.

I got tendinitis in one hand from breaking the gun open and closing

>The Benelli has far less recoil on a cululative basis.

The Argentenian outfitters, who have numerous shotguns of different brands available, will tell you that one needs to shoot a Benelli about 500 times to break it in.

We had relatively few problems if the guns were cleaned after every shoot. From time to time the bird boys would clean the guns in the field which took less than 5 minutes.

There were some misfires due to debris from clogging the firing pin.

Loading the Benelli is much tougher on the fingers.

I leave 2 months from tomorrow for Argentina. What am I taking? I just bought a 20 GA Cordoba and it is going with me.

Shoot what you like and are comfortable with.

I shot an SBEII in Argentina last spring and it preformed flawlessly with only one exception, it kicked out those CAZA shells like a champ and that is without any cleaning. The only exception was I got one bad case where I have no idea what was up with the powder, but it was only igniting about 1/2 the powder and the rest would end up all over in your action. Friend with 390 could cycle them, but had the same issue with unburned powder. With the 390 not being a 3.5" gun, I imagine that had a lot to do with it cycling. Set that case aside and after a quick cleaning of the action to get all the unburned powder out it ran like a champ for the rest of the trip. Granted we only did a few days of dove and the rest was pigeon and duck so I only shot somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rounds, but once I got back home I put another 1000 through it without a cleaning before I had any kind of cycling issues.

Just don't get the bad press some people push on the Benelli. Beretta's Auto's are nice but you have the gas system to clean. Remington is nice but again you have the gas system and the dreaded "O" ring.