Has anyone ever considered creating a howdah pistol from one of the Pedersoli Kodiak blackpowder double rifles? It is my understanding that the BATF considers blackpowder firearms to be a non gun, so it would theoretically be legal. I have always fancied howdah pistols and was wondering if it would be feasible/legal...

Regards,
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by merkel_double:
Has anyone ever considered creating a howdah pistol from one of the Pedersoli Kodiak blackpowder double rifles? It is my understanding that the BATF considers blackpowder firearms to be a non gun, so it would theoretically be legal. I have always fancied howdah pistols and was wondering if it would be feasible/legal...

Regards,
Daniel

Daniel If you are talking about the muzzle loading Pedersoli double, then you are quite correct, it is legal! However if you are speaking of a cartridge double rifle by Pedersoli then it most certainly is not. If the barrels are cut shorter than 16" long it becomes a "SAWED OFF" ,at least in the USA! It can be done with a cartridge double if you obtain the permits for restricted firearms, MAYBE!...........

I am talking about the percussion models.

Thanks,

Daniel

Mac,

Have you shot your new Kodiak ML yet?

How does it shoot?

I've been thinking about one...

quote:

Originally posted by Chasseur:
Mac,

Have you shot your new Kodiak ML yet?

How does it shoot?

I've been thinking about one...

No, I haven't shot it yet. I just got a bullet mould, and handles yesterday by UPS, and am about to go to Home Depot to get a block of plumber's lead. The guy I got this thing from gave me 5lbs of GOEX FFG, so all I need now is the lead, and some #11 caps. I have lube from TC but will try some other mixtures! I'm anxious about how it is going to shoot as well! Well I guess in a couple of days we'll know!

I used to shoot muzzle loaders all the time, but it has been 30 yrs or so since I've messed with them, so I'm a little green. I think it will come back fairly quickly!

If you do a search on this forum, there was a discussion of this possibility a couple of years ago. You would be legal converting the front stuffer.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Before I owuld mess up a Kodiak rifle I would use the barrels from an old 20 ga S/S shotgun. Whatever accuracy you gave up with the smoothbore barrels would probaby not be notticed.

I did once make a "horse pistol" using a piece of 12 ga barrel. Velocity was extremely low until you put in a bunch of powder then, recoil got bad.

I currently own a S/S damascus percussion shotgun I made myself. It was made following the instructions in the book "Recreating the Muzzle Loading Double Barrel Shotgun". Track of the Wolf has the book. It is a beautiful gun and I can shoot it well. Honestly though, I spent a huge amount of time to building it. I could have made a first class long rifle with that time. I think I might have enjoyed it more. My point is that the time spent making a Hodah pistol will be huge. You will have to make pretty much all the parts from scratch.

I wouldn't bother with the smallbores but if you are talking about pistolizing the rifled 12 bore double I think you're on to something spectacular. Keep us posted!

quote:

Originally posted by mb:
I wouldn't bother with the smallbores but if you are talking about pistolizing the rifled 12 bore double I think you're on to something spectacular. Keep us posted!

Gentlemen, you need to be very clear what you are talking about here! If you are converting a 12 ga cartridge shotgun to a cartridge pistol, you are in trouble already! However if you are converting a front stuffer to 12 ga to a howdha pistol then all is well.

One thing that hasn't been discussed here is converting a cartridge shotgun to a muzzleloader! This is easy to do by sleeving in muzzle loading barrels into the barrel butts of the shotgun, by threading the inside of the old barrel breaches, and screwing in the muzzle loading barrels. Then use breech plugs that are for in-line muzzleloader barrels useing the 209 primers, this way the breaktop action can be used to break it open to install the 209s, and the old shotgun fireing pins can be used. Load from the muzzle as with any other muzzleloader! In this case one can make muzzleloading double rifles, or howdha pistols legally. It doesn't take a very good shotgun for this conversion since it doesn't depend on the lock-up for strength, just to hold it closed so the fireing pins can hit the 209 primers, and to allow removal of the spent primers. The extractor can be modified to help with the removal.

Far be it from me to suggest that anyone break the law in these matters. I was thinking very much about the muzzleloading rifled 12 bore described here...

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=247&lang=en

I still think such a howdah pistol would be quite something special; just the thing to keep the tiger from chewing on one's elephant or mahout! Good hunting all! Be sure to take pictures...

The pedersoli rifle that I am considering converting to a Howdah pistol is a 72 cal muzzleloader. The main issue/problem that I a having is trying to figure out what style/type of pistol grip to use. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards,
Daniel

Daniel,
here's a list of some pictures of howdahs or Ithaca Auto & Burglars (from back before the NFA of 1934).
http://www.ncc-1776.com/tle1997/le970315-03.html
picture of an old Ithaca Auto & Burglar, with a grip inspired by the SAA with added recoil hump to tear up the web of your hand.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0100/162.htm
picture of a modern interpretation of the Ithaca Auto&Burglar, with a grip carved from a pistol gripped stock, it looks like.

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/111103hollis.htm
an authentic 16ga howdah (O/U)

http://www.adrax.com/watsons/howdah.htm
another old one, 12ga howdah (O/U)

.74 caliber percussion howdah pistol, ca. 1850/60:



(more pictures here)

One more:



The project sounds very interesting. Be sure to post lots of pictures.

Here's a pic of my 70 cal pinfire.
The grip looks kind of funny, but it feels great and natural when you hold and shoot it.

Here's a 577 of similar design next to the 700

Daniel,
I live in porter, just up the road... I've got a 58 kodiak that i would consider selling.. it has the pistol grip rifle stock right now!!

jeffe

Yes, I've been thinking about doing just that for years The only thing stopping me was the thought of buying the muzzleloading double, not a cheap gun, and then cutting it down. I'd also opt for the 12 bore.

The concept of converting a cartridge firing shotgun to a muzzle loader is intriquing, but I don't know if you could legally cut it down to a pistol. More work, but finding an inexspensive 12 ga coach gun isn't too tough.

I think that if you started with an Antique shotgun then you would be legal as the Antique is not subject to the CGA or NFA. You might find something with damascuss barrels that no one wants to shoot??

I've got a .72 Kodiak I'd sell or trade.