You are saying that you can hunt CF, then if you fail, still be allowed a tag in the ML season? That seems rather strange. 1,000 deer killed in ML season out of 2,800 to 3,500 killed (I think you inadvertently added an extra 0 in your figures) is a lot more than 5%. Anyway, sounds well. Like I said, I'm pretty much a CF hunter for deer anyway. In fact I have never ML hunted deer. Nothing against it, and it's pretty traditional out here by regulation.

Come on now Arts....you should believe what I'm saying as I have no reason to lie, the facts are there for all to see. Our deer kill is 28,000-35,000 and 1000 is less than 5%. I explained there is NO tags....if you don't get your deer in bow or centerfire season than you may hunt in ML'er season. I will post up deer kill figures if you doubt my numbers, by regulation our ML'er season is open to all and doesn't exclude any styles at all. After a month long CF season most hunters are done unless very ardent or still wanting another chance at vension. The only thing that would exclude you from ML'er season would be if you already shot your deer during the Bow or CF season. No tags up here, just a hunting license and a stamp for the ML'er season if you are still hunting. Our ML'er season is longer than a lot of states entire CF season I guess.





I just checked and our deer kill for last season 2003 was 30,313 total and 1,359 (4 1/2%) for ML'er.......In 2002 it was 38,153 with 1,038 (3%) killed by ML'er. With those % I don't think the CF hunters or bow hunters or any other kind of hunters are too worried about us killing all "their" deer with ML'ers.

woods

Mr. Woodseye--NO, NO, NO not doubting your word or truth at all. I thought you made an error and inadvertantly put an extra zero in there. It is simply beyond my comprehension that you could have that many deer killed and there still be any left alive, but I don't doubt your word. It just staggers me. Same on being able to get a tag for another season. I beleive you, it just seems really strange. As I said, it sounds like all is well there, just sounds strange, as in absolutely remarkable! Hell, I haven't even been able to get a deer tag in 4 years, let alone a tag to hunt a second season. Actually, it is strange from my view point that the ML season is after the CF season, as opposed to before. Thanks for your response. I understand your view on ML type a bit more now. If you had it like the rest of us, perhaps you would follow my thoughts as well. You have your cake and eat it to! Not a bad deal! Now, if I could just get one of your damn moose tags so that I could complete my slam!!!!!

Rollingb sounds like at least one of em cant even get a deer with a center fire,doubt if he puts much of a dent in the deer population with a smokeless inline either

BuckKnife,..... I think yore right!!



.... and, I'll bet he wasn't the "least bit" instrumental in lobby'n for the muzzleloader season he enjoys neither!! (like "some" of us were in our state!!)



Take care bud!!

rollingb

Arts,

Tags being any method is common east of the Mississippi. In PA you have to pay extra to hunt Archery or ML but it doesn't buy you any more deer. Just more time in the woods.

You can't even use a CF in your state so I don't feel too bad With a 10% statewide success rate I feel pretty good with my personal 80% over the last 40 odd years. , especially since I hunt trophy bucks only due to the one deer limit. Another newbee buckskin flamer too.....welcome to the ignore function bucko I love this ignore feature almost as much as hunting with an inline

woods

Rolling i thought id share some figuares with you since im being ignored by a "if i have too muzzle loader hunter"
success rate for hunters in Iowa
1st shotgun-69%-2.8 days hunten
2nd shotgun-63%-4.2 days hunten
An average of 52% were antlered deer
If all these fellers were using high power rifles instead of the smoothbore shotguns that 80% of them use and taking deer at 75 yards and less i dont think we would have any deer left after the 1st season.
muzzle loader-51%-4.2 days hunten
Rolling when i was looking for a small game muzzle loader rifle to use"because i want to use a muzzle loader instead of a 22" i couldnt find even 1 inline in 32 or 36 or 40 cal.Wonder why that is?
Muzzle loading sould be something a person wants to do if they are going to do it,not a tool just for filling a tag they coulnt the first time around

Buckknife,.... I think "woodseye" has used his "ignore button" on you'n me,... more'n he uses his "whiz-banger" fer hunt'n!!

As fer yore question 'bout small calibur inlines NOT be'n offered fer "small-game hunt'n",..... I reckon the inline-industry jest ain't seen a "market" for'em yet!!

'Sides, cain't you jest imagine them inline'ers say'n sumpthin like,........

"Yup!!, I shot a bunny the other day, with my NEW-IMPROVED T/C Ultra-Wabbit Magnum, with 20X scope, and Thin-Skin-Thudy-Two Sabot, with 4-50gr. Wabbit-Pellets of Whizzum Powder,.... AND,.. I shot thet bunny at a mind-boggle'n 10 yds., 'course I only use this muzzleloader when I fail to git a bunny with my Stevens .22 Single-Shot, which is hardly never"!!!!!!

HA! HA! HA! HA!.... Yep!!.. Them fellers "make" fer some "cheap ennertainment" alright!!!!

Yeah...... actually our state is small potatoes in the deer harvest totals and we only have a herd that numbers about 150,000 and the 30,000 to 35,000 deer kill is nothing compared to states that have kills of 100,000 or more. Some states need ML'er harvests along with bow and CF to begin to get near the total deer kill they desire, another reason they are easing the ML'er restrictions in a lot of states.

woods

Rolling yer right,im gonna have to start snugling up to the screen with a bag of pop corn and a soda.
On anuther note i wanted to shoot the 36 today but we have 35mph winds,so maybe tamorrow i hope to get out.Nuthin to do so im gonna cook up some bufler steak followed by a night of drinken some that ther apple pie stuff.
Taker easy ya old beaver trapen mountain man

Here in Michigan, the deer kill is between 250,000 and 400,000 depending on the year. The DNR expects 300,000 to be the norm. I dont know how it breaks down far as methods, it would be on the Michigan DNR site I would expect.

Buckknife,.... The sport of muzzleloader hunt'n is jest like any other sport, if yore gonna git "good" at it, it takes some "dedication".



For some of today's hunters, muzzleloaders are a way of git'n an "extra chance" at a deer.



For others, it can be a way of "extend'n" the centerfire season by use'n an inline muzzleloader thet for all practical purposes are merely "modified" centerfires.



And yet for others, it is something considered "special" wher the old limitations of "weather", "primitive ignition", "primitive iron sights", "primitive roundball", and "real" blackpowder,... provide an enormous sense of "accomplishment" when take'n critters the way our forefather's did.



I am one of the "many" thet consider take'n game with a muzzleloader as sumpthin "special". I sold all my "modern" rifleguns many years ago, 'cause ther jest didn't seem to be much of an "accomplishment" to shoot'n game at long-range.

Sense I started use'n "ONLY" traditional muzzleloaders (1971), I have take'n multiple,.......



Moose

Caribou

Elk

Black Bear

Mule Deer

Whitetail Deer

Antelope

Grouse

Bunnys

Porkypine

Coyote



I have met the critters on "ther own ground" without the "aid" of water-proof ignition, scope, fiber-optic sights, saboted jacketed bullets, range finders, and etc.



I did some figger'n this morn'n, and as near as I can figger,.... I "cast-up" approximately 90 lbs. of lead into roundballs "per-year". I'm 58 years old and I still manage to attend various "blackpowder shoots" across the country throughout the year, along with as many "rendezvous" as I can "fit" into my schedule (usually 9-12 of'em dur'n the summer).



"NOW",..... anybuddy shoot'n inlines can "compare" ther shoot'n aginst mine, and do some serious think'n 'bout "who" is git'n the "MOST" enjoyment out of ther muzzleloaders,... "me",... or,... "them"!!



I attend enough "do'ins" to see thet the "sales" of traditional muzzleloaders is "alive and well", and I visit enough of these "chat-sites" to see many fellas thet bought an inline as ther "first" muzzleloader are NOW switch'n to traditional muzzleloaders!!



"ONLY" the high-tech fellas seem to be "enamoured" with, stainless steel barrels, fluted-barrels, plastic-stocks, scopes, 209 primers, weather-proof actions, sabots, jacketed bullets, and the word "MAGNUM"!!



I don't consider myself a "professional hunter", so if I can be successful while hunt'n with traditional muzzleloaders (like my ancestors), so can anybuddy else!!



When the "kill" becomes more important than the "hunt" some fellas resort to modern technology to make up for ther "short-come'ns" as a hunter!! These are the sort of fellas thet I feel no "kindred" to as fellow hunters!!



I was instrumental in git'n a muzzleloader season in my state (actually "muzzleloader areas"), and when I see modern inlines come'n in and try'n to "take advantage" of my efforts (along with those of other "traditionalist"), I git purty "pissed".

In fact I refuse to hunt the "muzzleloader areas" in my state any more 'cause of the "inline'er mentality".



I'd rather use my traditional muzzleloader dur'n "regular centerfire season" nowadays, 'cause at least the centerfire fellas are be'n "honest" 'bout ther rifleguns!!



Mean while, I see fellas like Wolfhound and Woodseye, as "part-time" muzzleloader shooters who put ther "faith" in modern technology and "try'n" to do, dur'n a "special season" what they couldn't do dur'n the "regular season", instead of hone'n ther "skills" as real hunters.

"IF" they truely consider themselves "good hunters", then what "need" do they have for the "latest technical gizmos" in the world of muzzleloaders!!



Buckknife,... "YOU" know what I'm talk'n 'bout, 'cause you used to be an "inliner",...and, "now" you are a "brother" thet unnerstands the "real joy" of hunt'n with a "real muzzleloader"!!



"SALUTE"!!!!

Wow! Thats a pretty impressive deer kill Ken. I can't imagine there ever being a deer herd that size much less a deer kill of those numbers where I hunt. Are you allowed more than one deer per season? Is your season very long?

woods

We dont have a season for just muzzleloader here only a few special hunts which I dont do. Now am I a bad person because I want to use an inline during our hunting season. My inline doesnt have a scope, but it is stainless. Should I be shunned just because I like the thought of 1 shot with open sights during a season where you can hunt with anything. I agree with the traditionalist about it being unfair, but some folks dont have the time to dedicate there lives to black powder, and for some of those folks it may be the only chance they get to fill a tag. When I lived in PA it was flintlock only and I thought that was the way it should be. But my grandfather thinks that is how all hunting should be. He says new archery equipment is BS, new inlines are BS and so on. Its all a matter of opinion, but if your really enjoying your hunt like I do, you really dont care what the other guy is doing. Just my opinion, but the reality is some people are in it for the kill, and as long as its legal it is their right. Not everybody slows down and just enjoys the hunt like some of us. 8 hunts last year each of them at least 3 days, only 1 animal taken, but every day was enjoyed. Regardless of weapon thats what its about for me. I dont really care what the guy on the other mountain is doing so long as he is not breaking any laws.

Yep, the numbers I quoted are for firearm season only. The firearm season is two weeks and the ML one week, archery season is real long. You can get many tags including antlerless. They change the regs every years so it is hard keeping up with.
Here is a quote from the Michigan DNR site:

December 4, 2003
The Department of Natural Resources today announced preliminary estimates of the 2003 Michigan firearm deer season harvest. The early estimate indicates approximately 277,000 deer were taken, of which 57 percent were antlered and 43 percent were antlerless.

Final deer harvest figures, which will be available in July, are based on a mail survey of approximately 50,000 of this year's deer hunters. The 2003 preliminary estimate is slightly below the 2002 estimated harvest of 299,000, calculated from the 2002 mail survey. The state's record firearm season harvest occurred in 1998, when an estimated 351,000 deer were taken.......

IMHO they are letting out too many tags, I think the insurance companys and the Farm Bureau are putting presure on the DNR to reduce the herd. I dont see nearly the deer I used to.