Hello all, over the weekend I purchased a pound of 777 and a powder measure to try to tighten up my groups at the range (I was previously shooting 777 pellets and wasn't happy with the accuracy). Any way I decided to measure 120 gr of powder and weigh it on my reloading scale to see how close it was. It weighed less than 100 grains. So my question is, do the powder measures some how relate to black powder equivalent? Meaning that if I wanted to shoot 120 grains of 777 in my .50 cal T/C Encore, I should rely on the powder measure, not my reloading scale?

Thanks for the info guys!

Al Smith

From everything I've read so far, the bp substitutes are less dense and should be measured by volume rather than weight. Using the same weight of 777 would give more pressure than bp.

788 is right, BP substitutes are measured as volume equivalents, not by weight.

Ok, that makes sense then. Thanks for input. I'm new to this muzzleloading stuff so I'm glad to have a place to ask these sorts of questions.

Thanks again!

First, find a safe load for your Encore using the powder measure you would use for black powder.

Second, you can take that volume measured amount and throw it into your scale pan to get it's true weight in grains.

Last, adjust your smokeless powder measure(like an RCBS Uniflow) to throw that weight, or slightly under and then finish off using a trickler.

But you must ALWAYS have it in the front of your mind from now on that you are NOT dealing with the volume weights listed in every published recipe for Triple 7. Getting these confused could cause injury or death to yourself and bystanders. It's your call whether smaller groups are worth the risk.

Using a dispensing powder measure to measure muzzleloading powder is a little risky unless it is specifically made for blackpowder. The chance that you can set off muzzleloading powder in a smokeless device is not worth the risk to me. I know that 777 is almost smokeless and less apt to blow up in the dropper but again not worth the risk to me. Lyman makes a blackpowder dispensing measure if that is the way you want to go.

quote:

Originally posted by MLKeith:
Using a dispensing powder measure to measure muzzleloading powder is a little risky unless it is specifically made for blackpowder.

This is another internet myth. Any good quality powder measure is just fine. Many shooters use a RCBS or Lyman 55, or Reddding BR (my choice) or any of a jillion others.

As for whether a volume measure will equate to a scale's true weight measure depends on the powder, which brand, granulation, and batch. Think of it as just an abitrary scale. Nothing more.

Try the real stuff sometime. You might like it.

Brent

Brent: If that is the case why do you suppose Lyman went to all the trouble to make a dispensing measure out of brass specifically for black powder??

quote:

Originally posted by MLKeith:
Brent: If that is the case why do you suppose Lyman went to all the trouble to make a dispensing measure out of brass specifically for black powder??

Because the market was created by the internet BS. You will notice that the original Lyman 55 designed for Black powder is no different in function and material than any other powder measure (ie, plastic, steel, etc. etc.).

There is no case of a powder measure blowing from either static electricity or powder shearing or any of that bs anywhere. Those that shoot bp extensively have figured this out. But the myth persists - just like the myth that WD40 will cause check cracking of metal and strip it of bluing. Such BS is common as dirt on the net. Some folks try to fight through the BS (hence my post, or internet sites like Snopes), and some people try to capitalize on the fear mongering.

Brent

Check out this site and link:

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

Smoke

quote:

Originally posted by smokepole paul:
Check out this site and link:

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

Smoke

I like that information. I have been doing that for the last 5 years.

So you guys carry the scale to the range with you? Mine is the tripple beam 505 or some such from RCBS and if the least bit of wind is going on it it a pain to get an accurate weight. I assume if you guys are hunting you use a speed loader with weighed charges. At the range it is hard to tell how many loads you will shoot.

If you move on to blackpowder cartridge, make sure that you use compressed loads. Remember that blackpowder is an explosive and airpockets are a BAD thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Sixgun Symphony:
If you move on to blackpowder cartridge, make sure that you use compressed loads. Remember that blackpowder is an explosive and airpockets are a BAD thing.

I'm sorry but in the never ending battle against internet legend, this is just plain false.

If you don't believe it, ask anyone that used black powder in Schuetzen with breech seating. We deliberately leave gaps of 1/16" - 1/4" between the over powder wad and the base of the bullet. It will not cause problems. No chamber ringing, no explosions, no nothing - except sometimes great accuracy.

Brent

Like mentioned BP or subs measuring devices and lingo in grs is by volume not actual weight.

Thats said their is absolutely nothing wrong with weighing your volume charge to come up with an actual weight and then duplicating on a reloading scale. I have been doing it for years and it has really improved my repeatability of groups on the range. It is very easy to tap or get a few extra "grains" in a flask at the range and this can cause your fliers. I would do like you mention deceide on a charge then take an average of 10 volume pours to come up with a weight in grains. So in your example 120 volume = 100gr actual weight, if that was my average for the 120 charge I wanted to shoot I would measure out 100gr(actual weight) loads for testing at the range. I use 2 dram vials and store in a plastic 12 gauge shotgun reload case. The plastic cases are available at most sport stores and the vials are on ebay all the time.

I never used my powder thrower, rather just a lee dipper and then trickled the remaining top get my desired charge.

As to the contamination possibiloity...that can happen with smokeless just as easily. I would really hope that everything is cleaned and wiped down before you start throwing charges on your reloading bench. I reload for several cartridges and this is just common practice for me, ensuring I start with fresh/clean tools.

I finally have my .50 cal ULA M90 shooting Good Enough. I was dinking around with 90 gr H777, and I just tried 100 gr (by vol), which put the first two shots an inch apart just under the bull center. I am shooting the 348 gr Powerbelt copper clad hollow point.

I put in 8 clicks of "up", which should have me a tad high and ready to go deer hunting. I leave Monday for Colorado to chase the wily mule deer.

jim