Okay, my posts on this got buried by a distracting argument.

So, Ill just start a new thread.

As a reminder:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I found this post on reddit and it pretty much says it all.

>>>Honestly I don't think republicans have been as collectively jazzed about anything as they are that Charlie Kirk got smoked and they get to play martyr. This whole performance over the last couple weeks has been the fakest, most performative, bullshit maga has engaged in, which is quite the accomplishment.

But no one is surprised. Of course these assholes would only see this as an opportunity to attack others.<<<<<

Ahh...such a sweet non-hateful post by the benevolent left...not!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I really disagree with the author of that post on Reddit.

They are not faking it. Many or most people are sad that it happened. I know that I am. But the MAGA rightists are really in grief. The problem is they have been trained to blame the left.

What Trump is doing might be called performative, or opportunistic, but I think CK was one of the few people he really liked. That's likely because CK did so much for Trump or on his behalf.

But IMO, they all intentionally missed an opportunity to unite rather than further divide, mostly by blaming the whole left.

Can anyone imagine Trump singing Amazing Grace at the eulogy?

AI Overview
Barack Obama sang "Amazing Grace" on June 26, 2015, during the eulogy for Reverend Clementa Pinckney in Charleston, South Carolina. Pinckney was the pastor of Mother Emanuel AME Church and one of the nine victims killed in a mass shooting perpetrated by a white supremacist.
The impromptu moment occurred toward the end of his address, as Obama spoke about God's grace. He began to sing a cappella, and the crowd soon joined him. The gesture was widely seen as a powerful and unifying moment of his presidency.

https://youtu.be/IN05jVNBs64?si=Cc3-YOOv-6WMY3Km&t=10

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
President Obama during the eulogy told those assembled, “ We do not hate whites.”


Did we hear, “ We do not hate trans folks?”

No, what we heard was a citizen who helped law enforcement is a tranny. Disgusting.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here's Trump's version of an eulogy:

https://youtu.be/8LuTTpgZCnk?si=Dq8LdK_Dp37aT6z0

TRUMP makes VIBRANT ENTRANCE to ‘GOD BLESS THE USA’ at CHARLIE KIRK MEMORIAL

2.35M subscribers

46,340 views 18 hours ago

=====================================

If MAGA sung Amazing Grace, Trump would think it's about him - that he's the amazing grace, and MAGA agrees.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
So, Lane's premise is the left is more violent, presumably compared to the right.

Hmmm

Here's a song presumably by someone who isn't a Rightist. She didn't mention right or left in the song. I think the implications, not for blame but for unity, are clear.

https://youtu.be/2qdB1EypJFU?si=iBRoajqkIju2D42n

Zoe Mulford - "The President Sang Amazing Grace"

(sorry about the ad. Just hit skip in a few seconds)

And my friends tell me that all my dogs are liberals (or democrats).

Here's what they would say about that:

https://youtube.com/shorts/siI...?si=CNng_vHEvssR9D2N

=============================================

I think this is the procession at Charlie Kirk's funeral.

The video is overlayed with Amazing Grace.

Beyond the obvious, there is some irony in it, very subtle.

Notice the fly crawling around in the picture, left center.

https://youtube.com/shorts/tKE...?si=mwd19LTIFUxLOyBh

Racial division is no better than political division, and racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted.
At the memorial, Donald Trump, in his usual inarticulate manner, delivered exactly what one would expect from him. They turned a memorial into a political rally, but then, Charlie Kirk was a political person.
The polarization of America, embraced by both sides, continues unabated. Regards, Bill

When the POTUS stands before the world and declares how much he “hates his opponents” that really doesn’t do much for unity…or verify his often touted Christianity.

Did you watch his unhinged rant fest at the UN? This is the guy you trust with the Big Red Button?

I'll emphatically disagree with the notion that Obama engaged in any sort of behavior in relation to any issue that would be analogous or similar to trump.

There's no comparison between the two men: one is a grifter, a sex offender, a convicted felon, a philanderer and a seditionist. trump isn't fit to lick the bottom of Obama's shoes.

It was Magine who initiated the comparison. I freely admit that Obama and Trump are totally different people. I even agree the Obama, in many respects, was vastly better than Trump. However, I do also believe he set race relations back several decades. Just my opinion. Bill

Oh, maybe I could take their sorrow and pain a bit more seriously if they weren't using sparklers and fireworks to introduce Kirk's widow....all the while grifting Kirk merchandise to the MAGA faithful. Between that and trump's completely political speech, it seemed more like a political rally and a grift opportunity than a memorial.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Okay, my posts on this got buried by a distracting argument.

So, Ill just start a new thread.

As a reminder:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I found this post on reddit and it pretty much says it all.

>>>Honestly I don't think republicans have been as collectively jazzed about anything as they are that Charlie Kirk got smoked and they get to play martyr. This whole performance over the last couple weeks has been the fakest, most performative, bullshit maga has engaged in, which is quite the accomplishment.

But no one is surprised. Of course these assholes would only see this as an opportunity to attack others.<<<<<

Ahh...such a sweet non-hateful post by the benevolent left...not!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I really disagree with the author of that post on Reddit.

They are not faking it. Many or most people are sad that it happened. I know that I am. But the MAGA rightists are really in grief. The problem is they have been trained to blame the left.

What Trump is doing might be called performative, or opportunistic, but I think CK was one of the few people he really liked. That's likely because CK did so much for Trump or on his behalf.

But IMO, they all intentionally missed an opportunity to unite rather than further divide, mostly by blaming the whole left.

Can anyone imagine Trump singing Amazing Grace at the eulogy?

AI Overview
Barack Obama sang "Amazing Grace" on June 26, 2015, during the eulogy for Reverend Clementa Pinckney in Charleston, South Carolina. Pinckney was the pastor of Mother Emanuel AME Church and one of the nine victims killed in a mass shooting perpetrated by a white supremacist.
The impromptu moment occurred toward the end of his address, as Obama spoke about God's grace. He began to sing a cappella, and the crowd soon joined him. The gesture was widely seen as a powerful and unifying moment of his presidency.

https://youtu.be/IN05jVNBs64?si=Cc3-YOOv-6WMY3Km&t=10

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
President Obama during the eulogy told those assembled, “ We do not hate whites.”


Did we hear, “ We do not hate trans folks?”

No, what we heard was a citizen who helped law enforcement is a tranny. Disgusting.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here's Trump's version of an eulogy:

https://youtu.be/8LuTTpgZCnk?si=Dq8LdK_Dp37aT6z0

TRUMP makes VIBRANT ENTRANCE to ‘GOD BLESS THE USA’ at CHARLIE KIRK MEMORIAL

2.35M subscribers

46,340 views 18 hours ago

=====================================

If MAGA sung Amazing Grace, Trump would think it's about him - that he's the amazing grace, and MAGA agrees.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
So, Lane's premise is the left is more violent, presumably compared to the right.

Hmmm

Here's a song presumably by someone who isn't a Rightist. She didn't mention right or left in the song. I think the implications, not for blame but for unity, are clear.

https://youtu.be/2qdB1EypJFU?si=iBRoajqkIju2D42n

Zoe Mulford - "The President Sang Amazing Grace"

(sorry about the ad. Just hit skip in a few seconds)

And my friends tell me that all my dogs are liberals (or democrats).

Here's what they would say about that:

https://youtube.com/shorts/siI...?si=CNng_vHEvssR9D2N

=============================================

I think this is the procession at Charlie Kirk's funeral.

The video is overlayed with Amazing Grace.

Beyond the obvious, there is some irony in it, very subtle.

Notice the fly crawling around in the picture, left center.

https://youtube.com/shorts/tKE...?si=mwd19LTIFUxLOyBh

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
... racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted. ...

Does "unwittingly" mean unintentionally?

Now how could that happen?

Do I really need to answer that question?

quote:

However, I do also believe he set race relations back several decades.

Absolutely 100% correct.

But, and I will leave Bill out of this aspect, it absolutely was NOT unwitting. It was 100% international.

There is a difference between 0bama and Trump alright. Trump loves America as it always has been. 0bama loves America as he wishes it were. Reminds me of a bad woman…always wanting the money and security a man provides but always trying to change him into her little model instead of accepting him for who he is.

I personally wouldn’t walk across the street to piss on 0bama if I saw him on fire. Well, maybe I would.

0bama The most transformative (for the worst) figure America has ever seen.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
... racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted. ...

Does "unwittingly" mean unintentionally?

Now how could that happen?

Do I really need to answer that question?

I shouldn't have to answer that question, but I will. Unwittingly does indeed mean unintentionally, as I'm quite sure you know. I think Obama sometimes didn't think of the ramifications of playing to the black audience. I don't know that this was deliberate, but he should have known better. Other times, I believe it was deliberate.
Likewise, Donald Trump seldom thinks of the ramifications of playing to the good ol' boys audience. In his case, it isn't that he doesn't think of the ramifications, he just doesn't give a shit.
Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society. I know Obama didn't seem to support that idea; I'm not real sure about Trump. Regards, Bill

quote:

Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society.

Not in the clip I saw where Kirk spends almost his whole show ranting about black-on-white crime, race-baiting, trying to stir up white hatred against blacks.

I also watched two of his "debates" with college kids on abortion and birthright citizenship. He claimed that women getting abortions didn't know what they were doing. I guess they needed Kirk to tell them.

On birthright citizenship he kept arguing the 14th amendment has been "misinterpreted," but he wouldn't explain how it could be reasonably be interpreted other than what it says: "All people born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens..."

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society.

Not in the clip I saw where Kirk spends almost his whole show ranting about black-on-white crime, race-baiting, trying to stir up white hatred against blacks.

I also watched two of his "debates" with college kids on abortion and birthright citizenship. He claimed that women getting abortions didn't know what they were doing. I guess they needed Kirk to tell them.

On birthright citizenship he kept arguing the 14th amendment has been "misinterpreted," but he wouldn't explain how it could be reasonably be interpreted other than what it says: "All people born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens..."

Kirk was a hateful racist piece of shit.

People should be able to call him out for what he said.

I'm sure he has a vaulted place in hell warming up the place for Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

However, I do also believe he set race relations back several decades.

Absolutely 100% correct.

But, and I will leave Bill out of this aspect, it absolutely was NOT unwitting. It was 100% international.

There is a difference between 0bama and Trump alright. Trump loves America as it always has been. 0bama loves America as he wishes it were. Reminds me of a bad woman…always wanting the money and security a man provides but always trying to change him into her little model instead of accepting him for who he is.

I personally wouldn’t walk across the street to piss on 0bama if I saw him on fire. Well, maybe I would.

0bama The most transformative (for the worst) figure America has ever seen.

>>>Reminds me of a bad woman…always wanting the money and security a man provides but always trying to change him into her little model instead of accepting him for who he is.<<<<

I need the back story on this. Sounds personal. Share it.

quote:

Originally posted by 300shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society.

Not in the clip I saw where Kirk spends almost his whole show ranting about black-on-white crime, race-baiting, trying to stir up white hatred against blacks.

I also watched two of his "debates" with college kids on abortion and birthright citizenship. He claimed that women getting abortions didn't know what they were doing. I guess they needed Kirk to tell them.

On birthright citizenship he kept arguing the 14th amendment has been "misinterpreted," but he wouldn't explain how it could be reasonably be interpreted other than what it says: "All people born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens..."

Kirk was a hateful racist piece of shit.

People should be able to call him out for what he said.

I'm sure he has a vaulted place in hell warming up the place for Trump.

In shows I watched, he only told the truth about black crime statistics. Of course, the left thinks we should only charge whites with crimes. They deserve it just for the crime of having been born white. If they get killed, well, they shouldn't have gotten in front of the bullet.
Let me be clear; I disagree with much of what Kirk stood for, but pointing out the fact that black poverty is getting worse, black unemployment is getting worse, or there are more single parent families in the black community, is not among them. The black community needs to acknowledge problems and look for solutions they can implement themselves.
Apparently, saying blacks and whites should have equal opportunities and be judged as equals, is racist or "race baiting". Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Racial division is no better than political division, and racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted.
At the memorial, Donald Trump, in his usual inarticulate manner, delivered exactly what one would expect from him. They turned a memorial into a political rally, but then, Charlie Kirk was a political person.
The polarization of America, embraced by both sides, continues unabated. Regards, Bill

i disagree on that bill charlie kirk was an influencer but not an elected politician ...

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
... racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted. ...

Does "unwittingly" mean unintentionally?

Now how could that happen?

Do I really need to answer that question?

The responses I got from those three questions are very interesting. They sorta cascaded.

The questions together are open ended, only subtlety suggesting the answers.

Look at the questions again. The first one is rhetorical, and didn't need an answer. But when you look at the context of the statement Bill made, see the word "promoted". The claim is self-contradictory. Promoted seems to me to be something deliberate, for the purpose of division supposedly. Bill could have used the word "caused". But that still wouldn't be correct. How could he cause something that pre-existed?

The second question is intentionally open ended to not suggest my preconceived answer.

So, my answer is that the racial hate was already there and Obama underestimated it. But really there was nothing he could do about it one way or another simply because he is black, or half black and IDed as black.

Some of the posts above, opinion answers, show the already there and always will be.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
... racial division is what Obama, sometimes unwittingly, promoted. ...

Does "unwittingly" mean unintentionally?

Now how could that happen?

Do I really need to answer that question?

I shouldn't have to answer that question, but I will. Unwittingly does indeed mean unintentionally, as I'm quite sure you know. I think Obama sometimes didn't think of the ramifications of playing to the black audience. I don't know that this was deliberate, but he should have known better. Other times, I believe it was deliberate.
Likewise, Donald Trump seldom thinks of the ramifications of playing to the good ol' boys audience. In his case, it isn't that he doesn't think of the ramifications, he just doesn't give a shit.
Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society. I know Obama didn't seem to support that idea; I'm not real sure about Trump. Regards, Bill

You didn't have to answer the first question. We all know the answer already.

Instead of "didn't think" perhaps he underestimated ramifications by pre-existing racism and hate.

Here's an example of your self-contradictions, double-talk or doublethink (Orwell 1984)

"I don't know that this was deliberate, but he should have known better. Other times, I believe it was deliberate."

Are you trying to make a distinction between "know" and "believe", or does that sentence show that you don't know the distinction. Of course "know" and "believe" is the same thing to True Believers.

This "color-blind society" notion is utter BS, in the context of culture war, which CK promoted. I doubt that Obama gave it any consideration in the context you're talking about. He mostly supported respect between the races, for the sake of the nation.

So, you're not sure about Trump? BS. You ain't stupid or blind. It takes a lot of denial to make the claim you're not sure about Trump

You say: "Likewise, Donald Trump seldom thinks of the ramifications of playing to the good ol' boys audience. In his case, it isn't that he doesn't think of the ramifications, he just doesn't give a shit."

I think that's BS all the way through. Trump thinks of the ramifications always. I wouldn't call MAGA or any of his base "good ol' boys". And you repeat yourself. Shit is what he gives, for a purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
n shows I watched, he only told the truth about black crime statistics. Of course, the left thinks we should only charge whites with crimes. They deserve it just for the crime of having been born white. If they get killed, well, they shouldn't have gotten in front of the bullet.
Let me be clear; I disagree with much of what Kirk stood for, but pointing out the fact that black poverty is getting worse, black unemployment is getting worse, or there are more single parent families in the black community, is not among them. The black community needs to acknowledge problems and look for solutions they can implement themselves.
Apparently, saying blacks and whites should have equal opportunities and be judged as equals, is racist or "race baiting". Bill.

You say: "Of course, the left thinks we should only charge whites with crimes."

Your opinions deflate credibility through the whole post with that comment.

Your whole post is an example of pre-existing belief.

Lane's post would take the cake at an all white proud boyz Christian revival.

Your posts, Bill, might get recognition.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

However, I do also believe he set race relations back several decades.

Absolutely 100% correct.

But, and I will leave Bill out of this aspect, it absolutely was NOT unwitting. It was 100% international.

There is a difference between 0bama and Trump alright. Trump loves America as it always has been. 0bama loves America as he wishes it were. Reminds me of a bad woman…always wanting the money and security a man provides but always trying to change him into her little model instead of accepting him for who he is.

I personally wouldn’t walk across the street to piss on 0bama if I saw him on fire. Well, maybe I would.

0bama The most transformative (for the worst) figure America has ever seen.

"Trump loves America as it always has been. 0bama loves America as he wishes it were."

Let that sink in.

That's a very bizarre belief, IMO.

It's a fantasy to think Trump loves America in the traditional sense. He loves America because it provides him opportunities. And America hasn't always been fascist. So, that means he wants/wishes it to become a nation re-made in his own image, fascist.

Obama, OTOH, loves America too, with a far different and reality/healthy vision of the past, present and for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by 300shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society.

Not in the clip I saw where Kirk spends almost his whole show ranting about black-on-white crime, race-baiting, trying to stir up white hatred against blacks.

I also watched two of his "debates" with college kids on abortion and birthright citizenship. He claimed that women getting abortions didn't know what they were doing. I guess they needed Kirk to tell them.

On birthright citizenship he kept arguing the 14th amendment has been "misinterpreted," but he wouldn't explain how it could be reasonably be interpreted other than what it says: "All people born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens..."

Kirk was a hateful racist piece of shit.

People should be able to call him out for what he said.

I'm sure he has a vaulted place in hell warming up the place for Trump.

Yep you're still scum!

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by 300shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Charlie Kirk often espoused the necessity of making ours a color-blind society.

Not in the clip I saw where Kirk spends almost his whole show ranting about black-on-white crime, race-baiting, trying to stir up white hatred against blacks.

I also watched two of his "debates" with college kids on abortion and birthright citizenship. He claimed that women getting abortions didn't know what they were doing. I guess they needed Kirk to tell them.

On birthright citizenship he kept arguing the 14th amendment has been "misinterpreted," but he wouldn't explain how it could be reasonably be interpreted other than what it says: "All people born or naturalized in the US, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens..."

Kirk was a hateful racist piece of shit.

People should be able to call him out for what he said.

I'm sure he has a vaulted place in hell warming up the place for Trump.

Yep you're still scum!

+1

Yea, name calling draws affirmation.

But let's talk about affirmative action and Charlie Kirk..

https://www.ndsmcobserver.com/...ng-about-black-women

What Charlie Kirk got wrong about Black women
By Zora Rodgers
Sep 15, 2025 12:00 am

Excerpt from the article:

This was a story I followed for days. I analyzed my classmates’ reactions to it, the media’s coverage of it, social media and politicians’ takes, etc. I wondered why his death and the handling of such (being flown on Air Force 2 and posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom) was of the highest honors despite him being a podcaster and having held no public office.

As news outlets chronicled his legacy and Kirk’s friends and family emotionally reflected on his life, I was curious to see what truly made this man so great. Some surface-level research and video compilations of his most controversial quotes quickly left me frustrated but not surprised, most specifically his comments about race.

This piece could’ve been “What Charlie Kirk got wrong about Black people,” instead of Black women. The only reason it is not is because I am loosely bound to a word count, so I will instead focus on the demographic that most directly affects me.

For about as long as America has been alive and colonized, Black women have been devalued, degraded and unfairly depreciated. It is a common saying in Black households that Black women must be “twice as good” to be awarded half as much as their white counterparts.

There are two direct quotes that I would like to pick apart. Both were said by Kirk on “The Charlie Kirk Show.”

The first is, “If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?” The second is as follows, “If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.”

First, let’s take a quick crash course in affirmative action. Affirmative action is when organizations make an active effort by devoting resources to better the employment and educational opportunities of marginalized groups such as ethnic minorities and women. Historically, white women have been the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. It is not executed in the form of quotas (banned by the Supreme Court in the late 1970s), it does not discriminate against white men and it certainly does not hire unqualified individuals (which is against federal law).

Additionally, Joy Reid went to Harvard for her undergraduate degree. Michelle Obama went to Princeton and Harvard Law School. Sheila Jackson Lee went to NYU, transferred to Yale, and later attended UVA Law School. Ketanji Brown Jackson attended Harvard University for her undergraduate degree and Harvard Law School. Charlie Kirk attended Harper College for one semester before dropping out. Why was he challenging the intellectual competency of these Black women when they have run educational laps around him?

Kirk saying that these highly educated women do not possess the “brain processing power” to be taken seriously is problematic primarily because it is reminiscent of 19th-century pseudoscientific rhetoric that white people would use to justify the abuse of Black people and their low social status. They alleged that Black people had thicker skin and could thus tolerate more pain, less lung capacity and smaller skulls — attributed to the pseudoscience of phrenology, which asserts that cranium size and shape is indicative of mental ability.

Finally, Kirk’s assertion that these women are “stealing a white person’s slot” is troublesome because it implies that only white people are entitled to prestigious roles like “first lady” or “talk show host” or “Supreme Court justice”. This is white supremacist ideology that should be condemned on all fronts. The idea that white people are the only ones deserving of positions of power is incredibly racist and false, given that they are not the only competent ethnic group and those “slots” in question are fair game for anybody.