The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Another Israeli "tragic mistake"Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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How many children must Netanyahu blow to small pieces before everyone has had enough of him and his ugly no-solution regime that breeds an enemy with NOTHING to lose? How many more "tragic mistakes," Bibi? How many more murders of Palestinians by West Bank crackpot ultra Zionist settlers? Yeah, you are up against a heartless foe. But you have used up your quota of bludgeoning innocents. https://apnews.com/article/isr...bfbe69a9659a4a5dd047 Oh, dear, I have criticized Israel. I must be a horrible Nazi anti-semite. Yeah, fuck off. My own child is 1/8 Sephardic. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | ||
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Fear of death works, until it doesn't. Then things change... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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The REAL tragic mistake was instigated by the bloody Brits in 1917. And put into effect in 1948. The West has been a partner in this sick crime against humanity! NEVER FORGET! November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour | |||
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Bill, where did the Hamas rocket attack originate from? Was it a school or church? A hospital or grocery store? We know Hamas has used kindergarten classrooms before, what do you expect N to do? The real question is why does Hamas continue to use civilian shields and why in the world is Israel blamed for it? You said your offspring is related, if a terrorist attack was launched from a hospital against your child you'd what? Hamas has clear avenues to end the war. A) come out from behind the grannies and infants and fight. B) surrender. C) retreat as in out of country D) kill themselves, yes my personal favorite. So why Bill? Why does Hamas continue to make terror attacks against Israel from behind the skirts of women? If Rashida Tlab had any integrity she's get her happy self back over there so she could use her skirt to hide a suicide vest wearing terrorist. | |||
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Where did all the ILLEGAL OCCUPIERS come from? | |||
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Scott, the environment in which an organization as evil as Hamas thrives was built by a single architect named Netanyahu, who sides with the worst elements of Israeli society to deny the Palestinians whose land was taken to create Israel ANY chance for a homeland of their own. When you take away all hope from people, they have nothing to lose -- and that creates the bitterest of enemies. Hamas is an unspeakably foul and cynical terrorist organization that needs to be stamped out and wiped off the earth, but you cannot keep killing hundreds of innocent civilians -- so many of them already starving women and children -- for every Hamas fighter you kill. The present Israeli "solution" is not working -- nor will it ever, according to all the analysis I read. Hamas savagely murdered 1200 Israelis on Oct. 7 (actually, more than 300 of these were Israeli security personnel). This is an "eye-for-an-eye" part of the world where forgiveness is not considered a strength, but Israeli forces have killed at least 36,000 Palestinians in response. That's a 30 to one ratio. Does that strike you as reasonable? I hear absolutely no one saying that Israel can reasonably hope to stamp out Hamas no matter how many tens of thousands more women, children, babies and elderly they slaughter. Doesn't that suggest that a new strategy is indicated? It is estimated by US intelligence that Israel has killed about a third of Hamas's fighters to date. That's a lot of collateral damage for the results achieved, but Israel has achieved another much more dangerous and unwanted goal: creating another generation of Palestinians whose understandable hatred for Israel is white hot-- and will be passed down to the future. How does this end? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Okay, after digging much further into the numbers cited, I find this very enlightening blog post by none other than Elliot Abrams, which puts the human toll of the conflict in a different perspective. Yet even adjusting the numbers, the suffering in Gaza is immeasurable and I cannot see how it ends with any kind of satisfactory or lasting solution, either for Israel or the Palestinians. Surely all this tragedy must account for something. https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-ha...ack&utm_medium=email There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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It is ok Bill. They are Palestinians. Kill a terrorist Zionist and it is a different ball game! Remember though, your giver is complicit in this human atrocity just as the bloody Brits with their Balfour Declaration! What right did they have to give away someone else’s homeland?? Three European countries are recognizing the State Of Palestine this week! Members of your government are livid at this! Their paymasters in the criminal Zionist establishment is telling them what to say! Spineless bloody criminals against humanity! | |||
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I have explained this several times… but some appear to feel that carpet bombing is the answer. I would add that it’s also exactly what Hamas wants as their support amongst Palestinians has waned over the past few years. | |||
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Palestine is gaining incredible support right now. Ultimately, there MUST be a Palestine State. That is what the New Nazis hate most! And NitanHitler is being instrumental in achieving it! | |||
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Hear, hear! "Early in the morning, at break of day, in all the freshness and dawn of one's strength, to read a book - I call that vicious!"- Friedrich Nietzsche | |||
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If that is to be the case it can only be achieved by peaceful means, diplomacy, the renouncing of violence and the acceptance that Israel as a state has the right to exist without threat from her neighbours. Ira, or at least the nut cases who run Iran, will never accept this. It is very encouraging to see the green shoots of peaceful coexistence, at lease before Hamas started doing their best to wreck it, as the UAE and others opened normal relations with Israel. | |||
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One question you should look answers for is who enabled and funded Hamas as a counterbalance to PLA and to prevent the formation of the Palestinian State as an official policy for two decades. You can include major trusted Israeli news sources in your search. That actually might answer your questions above. Mind you, I am not supporting Hamas or their dastardly actions against Israelis and Palestinians. One needs to focus on the causes that precipitate violence instead of specific acts of violence. "Early in the morning, at break of day, in all the freshness and dawn of one's strength, to read a book - I call that vicious!"- Friedrich Nietzsche | |||
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More like casualties of war. | |||
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You mean like 911? | |||
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No, I don't. | |||
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If you are unable to distinguish between an occupied population in their own country, being forced to live in a glorified concentration camp, fighting for their freedoms, and New Nazis perpetuating what Adolf has done, then there is no point in our discussion! | |||
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I grew up in the various parts of the US. In elementary school, it never occurred to me to wonder where my schoolmates' ancestors lived. Maybe I was just a dullard, didn't know what religion they practiced either (except for my first grade year in a Catholic school, chosen because I wasn't old enough for public school yet). Later in life I began encountering people for whom adherence to their own faith and persecution of others was central to their sense of self. This amazed and revolted me, still does. In my adult life, I have been more often to my friends' churches than to the denomination I grew up with. This doesn't matter much to a discussion, except that I envision an inclusive Israel that wasn't implemented. I would weep, as much as for what might have been, as for what it has become. Bibi and his supporters are creating a culture that will never forgive, never forget, never allow a peace. This seems like Jericho 2.0. Leave nothing, take nothing, rebuild a walled enclave from bare dirt. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Why would Israel agree to a Palestinian state when "from the river to the sea" is still their motto. We see right here Saeed excusing and deflecting from Hamas's atrocities. He feels solidarity with the Palestinians because of their religion. Right now religion is an incredibly destructive force in your part of the world, Saeed. I urge you to renounce it--all religion. And deal with other people as human beings instead of other-than-humans because of their own destructive religious beliefs. | |||
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Anybody that thinks Netanyahu or, for that matter, any future leader of Israel, is going to give the Palestinians a state by way of response to a massacre of innocent Israeli's by Hamas is on Pluto. That is never going to happen. Is there some sort of diplomatic solution? Maybe. But, not anytime soon. As Nute has pointed out, and as I have repeatedly stated....all the Israelis are accomplishing right now is the creation of a new generation of Palestinian fighters. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Saeed, as long as the Palestinians persist in making indiscriminate attacks on nonmilitary targets, they will continue to get responded to by the IDF. While their anger at being dispossessed may well be severe, they also need to acknowledge that they are not the militarily stronger force. If the Israelis want to commit genocide against them, they have no ability to stop it. So, logically, one would think that they would quit poking the bear and utilize diplomacy. Forswear violence and acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. Then start utilizing what advantages that would give them diplomatically to get the best deal they can. Right now, the Palestinian people are international pariahs because of their persistence in using terroristic tactics and attacking nonmilitary targets. If they became peaceful, odds are in the next 20 years or so Israel would be forced to return some land and also there would likely be significant reparations. Look at the UAE. They didn’t go down the militant path and it’s an oasis of economic development and their people have a much superior standard of living compared to your neighbors. Why can’t the Palestinians copy that instead of trying to recreate the caliphate? Everyone knows life isn’t fair. You need to make the best of what you have. | |||
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Well, to be fair, the UAE is sitting on 111 billion barrels of oil. That accounts for their economic development and standard of living. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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How much of the Leviathan gas field might be claimed by Palestinians? Would the West Bank Palestinians get a little or would the Gaza crew keep it for themselves? TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour | |||
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That must be the hundredth time you've posted that letter, waving it around like a flag. I'm American. I don't care what "His Majesty's Government" had to say more than 100 years ago. | |||
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Large scale immigration of Jews from the diaspora back to Israel began in 1882. | |||
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There was no Israel before 1948! PALESTINE! The Palestinians did not persecute the Jews! Christians did in Europe. Culminating in Hitler’s actions. For your crimes, the Palestinians are paying with their lives. And you are financing their persecution and all the crimes against humanity being perpetrated right now by the New Nazis masquerading as Zionists! | |||
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You might be on to something. The Palestinians never agreed to an Israeli State, it was forced upon them. Maybe the solution is as simple as a Palestinian State being forced upon the Israelis. I believe Israel has a right to exist, I also believe along with that right to exist comes a responsibility to search for peace and decent living conditions for the people that they displaced and their offspring in order to create their Jewish State. Saeed has posted the Balfour letter several times but I wonder if any of you have read it. It clearly states that the residents of Palestine should not have their civil and religious rights infringed upon, that is not what happened when Israel was created. Until a diplomatic solution is put in place this cycle of violence will continue and the American Tax payer foots the bill. I think it is well past time to put pressure on Israel to create an environment that peace can be achieved. | |||
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They came in, and took over. Like someone inviting strangers to your house, then they kick you out! Plain and simple. And if you fight back, your are branded a terrorist! | |||
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If you fight back by getting in uniform, and restricting your fighting to reasonable military targets then you are not a terrorist. When you do not wear a uniform, and do not follow the rules of warfare, you are at risk of being branded a terrorist. Using killing of women and children and rape as your form of warfare is not acceptable. The Israelis are at least trying to target combatants. Hamas doesn’t make that distinction. They are not even making attacks to disable a military target. What military action was the October attack? | |||
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Ah here is the rub. On one side you have the most belligerent people, being armed by the most powerful country, with the latest technology and weapons. On the other side you millions crammed into a glorified concentration camp. Their water, their electricity, their banking, their Internet, their hospitals are controlled by an a New Nazi regime! All bets are off. They should fight in every way possible to make like as miserable to the illegal occupiers as possible. Why did you drop nuclear bombs on Japan?? Where the ones you killed soldiers?? | |||
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Your defense of terrorism is troubling, to say the least. Do most Muslims in the Middle East feel that way? | |||
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When did I say I support terrorism? The Palesti8nians are fighting for homes! From an occupying force. They have the right to use any means to get back their stolen homes! Look at the map of the ILLEGALLY created Zionist Entity in Palestine. See how it has grown like a nasty cancer. Which it IS! Zionism is nother modern name for Nazism! Menahim Begun was in charge of a terrorist organization. He became Israel's prime minister??? So rules apply one way, and not the other?? | |||
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[QUOTE]They have the right to use any means to get back their stolen homes! You said it twice, the first time responding to Doc Butler's comments about last October. | |||
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Stupid Palestinians. Every time they pull some act of terrorism, they lose more territory. I guess "from the river to the sea" isn't working too well for them. Maybe they ought to act like civilized people who want something. Gain the world's respect, instead of contempt. | |||
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And yes, Began was a terrorist. It's Israel's shame to have elected him PM, and US shame to have dealt with him. But are you deflecting again? What do you really think about the October 7 atrocities? | |||
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Read up on how Israel won her independence (Irgun & Hagana). Then look up what happened at Sabra and shatila. Not aimed you Roland but a lot of people here have opinions on who is right/ wrong in this mess without knowing much about the background. The reality is neither side are right, both have done things which are appalling. | |||
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