The HongKong stock exchange opened at -10%. Stockholm -6%. In just one day. How do you think the DJIA will develop when your stock exchanges open?

How many years will you guys have to postpone your retirements if it turned out that the orange jesus was just a narciccist with delusions of adequacy?

Not to mention the inflation you will experience when you're taxed with 54% on all chinese imports. Anyone here owns a smartphone?

Well, there will be plenty of jobs for you and your kids, sewing sneakers for USD2 per hour. You know, the jobs you wanted to get back to the US. If you don't want the price of these sneakers to rise, that's where the wages have to be. Vietnam levels. If you don't want that, you will get increased prices on consumer goods. That is inflation.

It looks like you shat youselves, dear americans. Too bad it hit the rest of the world too. Agent Krasnov made a good job, and you supported him.

It really defies any comprehension that he is allowed to do this!

I thought “democracy” was not supposed to run by one idiot!

Trump is destroying everything we gained in the last 4 years.

Low unemployment, record stock market, record jobs worldwide.

And not just in the US, worldwide.

Our stock market was silly too high for a six percent environment, P/E inappropriate.
Having trouble finding inflation? Price a retirement stream of income based on dividends.

The derivative market has been quiet so far, I doubt that it will stay that way.
It's much bigger now than in 2008 and still wild west.

I suspect that there are stock brokers out there who are relieved that it can be blamed on Trump.
Mind you, I am not a Trump supporter, just viewing things from the perspective of an old coot.

What can't go on forever, won't go on forever. We've survived worse hell-of-a-messes.

Dr. Easter just told us everything is well.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Dr. Easter just told us everything is well.

Don’t blame him.

He is looking up a donkey’s arse!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Dr. Easter just told us everything is well.

Don’t blame him.

He is looking up a donkey’s arse!

It's the Elephant's ass but why fight over the details.

Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

... i will make you happy i believe that all us citizen are pro trumps as they are not getting rid off him you just did see the analogy ... prove me wrong lol

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

Do you think a 4 trillion dollar tax cut makes sense when you are in the hole?

Trillions lost in the stock market in days.

This is shit policy but it's orange shit so you are asking for seconds

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Our stock market was silly too high for a six percent environment, P/E inappropriate.
Having trouble finding inflation? Price a retirement stream of income based on dividends.

The derivative market has been quiet so far, I doubt that it will stay that way.
It's much bigger now than in 2008 and still wild west.

I suspect that there are stock brokers out there who are relieved that it can be blamed on Trump.
Mind you, I am not a Trump supporter, just viewing things from the perspective of an old coot.

What can't go on forever, won't go on forever. We've survived worse hell-of-a-messes.

Well that's hardly the preferred way to fix or correct it. Look at it this way. You invest in the market with the expectation that your investment will grow over time. The only way for it to grow is for the share price to increase. It sounds like you're saying that stock X should never be worth more than Y dollars per share. New investors can't jump into a time machine and go back and buy at a lower price. Those who bought Tesla in excess of $400 per share expected it to go even higher. Those who still own it at that price are probably fucked, but that's alright.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Our stock market was silly too high for a six percent environment, P/E inappropriate.
Having trouble finding inflation? Price a retirement stream of income based on dividends.

The derivative market has been quiet so far, I doubt that it will stay that way.
It's much bigger now than in 2008 and still wild west.

I suspect that there are stock brokers out there who are relieved that it can be blamed on Trump.
Mind you, I am not a Trump supporter, just viewing things from the perspective of an old coot.

What can't go on forever, won't go on forever. We've survived worse hell-of-a-messes.

Well that's hardly the preferred way to fix or correct it. Look at it this way. You invest in the market with the expectation that your investment will grow over time. The only way for it to grow is for the share price to increase. It sounds like you're saying that stock X should never be worth more than Y dollars per share. New investors can't jump into a time machine and go back and buy at a lower price. Those who bought Tesla in excess of $400 per share expected it to go even higher. Those who still own it at that price are probably fucked, but that's alright.

We all hope that our investments will grow over time. We look for reasons why it might, and reasons why it might not. There are a lot of variables involved in making our expectations, some just involve only logic and proportion. Relatively simple math by physics standards, but it's surprising how much confusion there is among B-school students, particularly among those who changed majors from engineering.

I think most investors understand markets go up and markets go down. And they appreciate that externalities can impact markets. However, they do not expect market uncertainly by actions like on again, off again tariffs and actions that rather being targeted are broad brush.

Tom, or anyone familiar with the markets.
what is meant by a 'correction in the markets'?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Tom, or anyone familiar with the markets.
what is meant by a 'correction in the markets'?

It means that the prices in equities can go down for one reason or another, COVID 19 being an example. Some years back Alan Greenjeams muttered the 2 words irrational exuberance which sent stock prices scurrying south. Also I think it got out that he sometimes got his pecker caught in his zipper which sent the market in a downward direction. Sometimes you never know what's going to affect it.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

They aren't worried about our country.....just themselves.....typical libercrats!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
They aren't worried about our country.....just themselves.....

. . . you realize I hope that you just described the Orange Messiah perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

Will you farmers be tightening your belts, or will you be expecting government bailouts like last time Trump imposed tariffs?

All the people losing their jobs and being bullied at work don't get handouts from government.

The people who have lost big portions of their retirement funds aren't getting bailouts either.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Tom, or anyone familiar with the markets.
what is meant by a 'correction in the markets'?

I take it to mean that investors have gotten too optimistic and are paying prices too high for a reasonable return in a reasonable span of time. Greenspan's "irrational exuberance", mentioned a couple of posts up, is a descriptive term. The Dutch "Tulip Mania" is an extreme example, the collapse was historic.

The "greater fool" market, where it is assumed that next week someone will pay more than you paid this week, for no other reason than that prices have been going up and hopefully will continue to go up indefinitely.

The "correction" comes when a number of investors realize that the expected return is a lot less than what the same money would bring in interest on a good loan or another investment. Often people over-correct and there's money on the table for next week when panic subsides.

Lately company stocks have been trading at multiples that historically belonged to companies with excellent growth prospects.

Linear Technology was one such, a stellar investment for a couple of decades with high profit margins and no debt. It was acquired by Analog Devices a few years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

Will you farmers be tightening your belts, or will you be expecting government bailouts like last time Trump imposed tariffs?

All the people losing their jobs and being bullied at work don't get handouts from government.

The people who have lost big portions of their retirement funds aren't getting bailouts either.

Grain markets have took a hit. Along with everyone’s gas and diesel. So that’s a no, you think nothing and nobody will have to sacrifice?

I think everyone will suffer because of stupid policies.

No matter the policies we all gonna need to shovel out of a 1.8 trillion dollar crater. Surely you can see that

Sort of interesting to hear the MAGAts tell everyone about the need to suffer to address the debt when the Orange Messiah ran the debt up more than any President in history during his first term. Just goes to show you, regardless of what the Orange Messiah says or does, they are prepared to worship him.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Anyone here think we’re going to fix a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit without at least tightening our belts? Even if we went about it the way you think it should be done, across the board. You think we get out of this nothing sacrificed?

That is plain ridiculous. Yes, getting US economy in shape will be painful.

But here you are, cheering on pain that gets the economy in even worse shape. A kick in the nuts won't help you pay off your mortage.

Cause and effect, not the other way around. You're rooting for global misery. Throw a couple of nukes in as well and the US recovery will be even faster?

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
No matter the policies we all gonna need to shovel out of a 1.8 trillion dollar crater. Surely you can see that

Our crater wasn't dug all at once, and it would take time under reasonable policies to fill.

But Trump is making things worse.

Ah, refreshingly moderated takes.

Much like a "correction" is a change in circumstances, like when interest rates or the course of commerce are altered faster than comfortable adjustments can be made. Similar results.

Like the Consumer Price Index "substitutions", we alter our buying and selling.

Markets thrive on certainty, predictability and stability . . . and markets can handle change when it is reasoned and measured. Trump's economic policies are the antithesis of the foregoing.

Again, kudos on the measured response. And you may very well be correct.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
No matter the policies we all gonna need to shovel out of a 1.8 trillion dollar crater. Surely you can see that

We can start by cutting off these $3 million golf outings.

Ok. I don’t golf. Always seemed a waste of hunting ground. I have hunted frogs in their ponds though.

My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

Some money you "earn" by working with your back. Other money can be "earned" by working with your brain. Either way is ok.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

That is the exact argument the Marxist made.

The Labor Theory of Value:
Marx, building upon the work of David Ricardo and other classical economists, argued that the value of a commodity is determined by the amount of labor time required to produce it.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

That is the exact argument the Marxist made.

The Labor Theory of Value:
Marx, building upon the work of David Ricardo and other classical economists, argued that the value of a commodity is determined by the amount of labor time required to produce it.

The guy who runs Hermes purses made that point.
He says they are not expensive to buy, they're costly to make.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

That is the exact argument the Marxist made.

The Labor Theory of Value:
Marx, building upon the work of David Ricardo and other classical economists, argued that the value of a commodity is determined by the amount of labor time required to produce it.

In a way, that's not far off the mark. The fact is; the value of that commodity while it is based on the amount of labor put into it plus the value of raw materials, has to provide for every other person who claims a portion of that value.
Those who claim those portions may assert that they have earned it, and perhaps they have. The purse snatcher may as easily assert that he has earned his reward when he runs off with the old lady's purse. That is, of course, an unfair comparison, though I'll let it stand.
The truth is we have established an economic model which works, for the most part. It works as long as there is a balance struck between the producers and the claimers. Those who work are generally satisfied with their lot.
If I buy a piece of property and make improvements to it. I have earned any increase in value those improvements made. If the value of the property increases due to market pressure, I benefit from it, and I reap the reward. I haven't earned that, though I may like to think I have. If my property has a bunch of marketable timber on it, and I harvest and sell it, I have earned that. I bought it, I added value by cutting and hauling it and made a profit by selling it for more than I paid for it. I have earned that.
Labor isn't the only thing which gives a commodity value, but where labor is involved, it should certainly be acknowledged.
I'm certainly happy with money I get but I'm proud of money I earn. Today, as I approach old age, a lot of the money I get is in the form of pensions. I like to think I earned them but I'm also grateful to get them. Regards, Bill

Except it, value, is not based on labor. It is based on what the market will bring for a price.

You are making the foundational argument on behalf of Marxism. It is why Capital’s use of labor is exploitive and stealing from labor.

This is why I was not supportive of Trump as GOP candidate. The guy talked a good talk, but did differently.

Unfortunately, the other side didn’t even acknowledge the problem. They continue to want to throw other people’s money at problems that are not necessarily appropriately governmental issues.

Thus “false equivalence” to the lefties here; or a pox on both of them in my mind.

I freely grant that Trump is not doing much of what I would want… but then, folks aren’t voting for me. Folks repeatedly have voted for the foolish democrat policies, so why should we not expect folks to vote for foolish republican ones as a reaction?

It’s hard to underestimate the stupidity of the common man.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Sort of interesting to hear the MAGAts tell everyone about the need to suffer to address the debt when the Orange Messiah ran the debt up more than any President in history during his first term. Just goes to show you, regardless of what the Orange Messiah says or does, they are prepared to worship him.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
My son noted, when he lost a significant amount of value when the markets dropped, he hadn't earned it anyway. When he built something, he earned that; the other was just something that happened. I feel much the same way. There is money you earn, and there is money you get. You can be proud of what you earn but just thankful for what you get. Regards, Bill.

Well the IRS does differentiate between earned and unearned income so there's that, BUT they're taxed the same.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Except it, value, is not based on labor. It is based on what the market will bring for a price.

You are making the foundational argument on behalf of Marxism. It is why Capital’s use of labor is exploitive and stealing from labor.

well watch out the capitalists might find in you an enemy of the working class lol ...