The video which has been released which shows the Russian aircraft deliberately downing the US drone is rather embarrassing for Putin. It’s a blatant deliberate act to destroy the drone, there is no other interpretation.

Are drones now going to need a protective escort.

Maybe fit them with 100kg of explosive which can be detonated during a close pass…

Drones should be used as targets for practice!

I see a report this morning that due to the incident, Turkey will consider letting US warships into the black sea.

Aircraft either drones or piloted are property of the country that owns them. No country has a right to destroy them if they are in international waters. Russia and the US have harassed the others stuff for years but they usually stop short of downing them. Was this a deliberate downing? No I do not think that. I think this was a case of a pilot error in getting to close.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Aircraft either drones or piloted are property of the country that owns them. No country has a right to destroy them if they are in international waters. Russia and the US have harassed the others stuff for years but they usually stop short of downing them. Was this a deliberate downing? No I do not think that. I think this was a case of a pilot error in getting to close.

It might not have been the pilot intention to hit it but the intention is 100% to down it. Why else would two Russian planes be dumping fuel right into the drones path. The may not be firing missiles but the obvious intention to stop its engine is no different.

Here is the video

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64975766

Gawddamn that Ruski is a crazy sumbitch.


.

Most likely the fuel dump was to cover the camera lens.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Aircraft either drones or piloted are property of the country that owns them. No country has a right to destroy them if they are in international waters. Russia and the US have harassed the others stuff for years but they usually stop short of downing them. Was this a deliberate downing? No I do not think that. I think this was a case of a pilot error in getting to close.

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Seems like we are pushing, if not already, at war. Really sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
Gawddamn that Ruski is a crazy sumbitch.
.

Preoeller strike is serious business, doubt it was intentional...

more likely
the contact was errant
while attempting a dump & burn-

the maneuver used to be called “Flaring”
or “Zippo” or by the Aussies- “Torch” or “Torching”

you dump fuel and hit the burners
Quite impressive
especially when the F-111s or Vigis did it

F-14s not quite as spectacularly, some other AC can do it as well

kind of a big no no now to try it , at least, in the US forces,and it would be hard not to get caught

problably still standard showing off within Rusky aviation, although i have not seen a 27 do it

quote:

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Do we know that for sure? Francis Gary Powers was said to be in international airspace too. You can't believe shit this regime tells us.

The cowardly wimps use drones to kill innocent people thousands of miles away.

Sitting in air conditioned bunkers??

Any drones comes even close to my country I will shoot it!

Why would anyone spy on your country, Saeed?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Why would anyone spy on your country, Saeed?

Not talking about mine.

I am talking about the thousands of mostly innocent people killed by American drones!

Bloody hell, they killed a family the day they were running away from 20 years of having their arse handed to them.

And claimed those were terrorists!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Why would anyone spy on your country, Saeed?

Not talking about mine.

I am talking about the thousands of mostly innocent people killed by American drones!

Bloody hell, they killed a family the day they were running away from 20 years of having their arse handed to them.

And claimed those were terrorists!

Mistakes do happen sadly. Lots of on line footage of them very specifically taking out guys planting IED's or similar, when it would be easier to just carpet bomb or shell the entire the area (as Russia does), rather than hitting a specific building or specific individual.

Al Zarwahiri (prob spelled that wrong) was killed by a missile with blades sticking out the side. Hit him on a balcony of a building which also contained his family and others, no casualties except him. Im sure just bombing the whole building would have been a whole lot cheaper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62400923

Id also remind you that 350,000 civilians have been killed in Yemen where UAE/Saudi regularly kill civilians whilst attacking military targets. remember the school bus you hit a while back killing 50 people/kids?

At least the west (and I'd hope the UAE) try to learn from mistakes and try to avoid doing the same thing again.

They don’t tell you about their screw ups!

I think drones should be shot on sight!

Again, that's the difference between the west and Russia. We have a free(ish) press and a wedding or school bus getting hit gets reported. In Russia state TV says it wasn't us, it was the USA's fault, NATO did it, or it simply never happened.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Again, that's the difference between the west and Russia. We have a free(ish) press and a wedding or school bus getting hit gets reported. In Russia state TV says it wasn't us, it was the USA's fault, NATO did it, or it simply never happened.

You know this is not true!

Yiu most certainly do NOT have free press anymore.

Only opinionated idiots screaming as loudly as they can.

The Ukraine war is a perfect example.

Russia hasn’t lost any of the tether occupied.

Western media has been lying for a whole year how badly the war is going for Russia!

Bloody hell, by their accounts Russia should have been obliterated by now!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Again, that's the difference between the west and Russia. We have a free(ish) press and a wedding or school bus getting hit gets reported. In Russia state TV says it wasn't us, it was the USA's fault, NATO did it, or it simply never happened.

You know this is not true!

Yiu most certainly do NOT have free press anymore.

Only opinionated idiots screaming as loudly as they can.

The Ukraine war is a perfect example.

Russia hasn’t lost any of the tether occupied.

Western media has been lying for a whole year how badly the war is going for Russia!

Bloody hell, by their accounts Russia should have been obliterated by now!

Exactly Saeed, those Ruski's have a world class Military. That is why your uncle always calls on the Russians to save you when those pesky goat herders act up. Or is it my uncle Sam that your uncle uncle is always begging from?

Somehow I think your uncle knows who to call when he needs saving and it is not the Russians he has on speed dial. Other than to assist in smuggling them arms from China, he does know who to call to facilitate that.

https://www.politico.com/news/...sia-ukraine-00087398

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Again, that's the difference between the west and Russia. We have a free(ish) press and a wedding or school bus getting hit gets reported. In Russia state TV says it wasn't us, it was the USA's fault, NATO did it, or it simply never happened.

You know this is not true!

Yiu most certainly do NOT have free press anymore.

Only opinionated idiots screaming as loudly as they can.

The Ukraine war is a perfect example.

Russia hasn’t lost any of the tether occupied.

Western media has been lying for a whole year how badly the war is going for Russia!

Bloody hell, by their accounts Russia should have been obliterated by now!

Id hope you would know it is generally true. Our press, and particularly the US press, may be pushing the owners or editors message or agenda, but it's not muzzled by the state. Its able to push that agenda precisely because it is free from state interference. Anyone can post pretty much anything they like be it in print or on the web without fear of being arrested or locked up for it.

The opinionated idiots can scream because they are allowed to. The Mail which you love, can publish all the shit that it does because its free to do so.

If the western media is lying why doesn't Russia now control the whole of Ukraine? Its had over a year to take it. Its got a huge army and lots of planes and tanks and bombs, yet oddly Russia seems to be running low on soldiers, or is the recent conscription drive a western media invention too? Are Putin's deals with Iran for drones and requests for artillery shells inventions too?

Ukraine isn't now in control of Kherson? Ed's reports from Brovary were all part of an elaborate hoax?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:

quote:

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Do we know that for sure? Francis Gary Powers was said to be in international airspace too. You can't believe shit this regime tells us.

But we can believe the Russians, who claim it over their restricted airspace because of their “special operation “? Really?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:

quote:

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Do we know that for sure? Francis Gary Powers was said to be in international airspace too. You can't believe shit this regime tells us.

But we can believe the Russians, who claim it over their restricted airspace because of their “special operation “? Really?

But we sure CANNOT believe America!

Remember the GULF OF TONKIN INCIDENT?

Since we are obviously the Great Satan, I suggest the next time Yemeni goat herders rocket your capital, give Putin a call and order some obviously superior Russian air defense batteries. Hell, the oligarchs hanging out in Dubai Marina will probably pay for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:

quote:

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Do we know that for sure? Francis Gary Powers was said to be in international airspace too. You can't believe shit this regime tells us.

But we can believe the Russians, who claim it over their restricted airspace because of their “special operation “? Really?

But we sure CANNOT believe America!

Remember the GULF OF TONKIN INCIDENT?

…and how do you know about Tonkin?

Could it be that the media or the internet carry full details? If it was Russia it would be illegal for the media to carry such details … however not so in the west… you disprove your own argument.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:

quote:

The Drone was also over International Waters.

Do we know that for sure? Francis Gary Powers was said to be in international airspace too. You can't believe shit this regime tells us.

But we can believe the Russians, who claim it over their restricted airspace because of their “special operation “? Really?

But we sure CANNOT believe America!

Remember the GULF OF TONKIN INCIDENT?

…and how do you know about Tonkin?

Could it be that the media or the internet carry full details? If it was Russia it would be illegal for the media to carry such details … however not so in the west… you disprove your own argument.

Sadly,

I read only what is available in English.

And I don't believe a word of it.

By the way, why is Teflon Tony is still having a say in your politics?

That man is a perfect example of who is a war criminal.

Him, Bush 2 and Cheney.

What they have done pales in comparison to what Putin can ever do.

Your opinion of the US and what they have done is based on what you read in the press. If the US or UK fuck up and bomb a wedding it’s in the news.

When Russia invaded Afghanistan how much did you read about what they got up to? Or should I say how much were the Russian media allowed to say about what they got up to.

Your opinion on the relative “badness” of the US vs Russia isn’t based on comparing apples with apples.

Blair can still say whatever he likes - freedom of speech. No one is forced to listen to him tho.

I’d have no problem with dropping Blair and Bush 2 off in the middle of Afghanistan and leaving them there.

I do agree with you on this though —

https://www.theguardian.com/co...tair-campbell-russia

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
I do agree with you on this though —

https://www.theguardian.com/co...tair-campbell-russia

To be honest with you, any individual who does not like senseless wars would agree.

If you look at the bigger, what Russia is doing in the Ukraine is nothing new.

In the latter half of last century, and earlier on in this one, America has been at it non stop!

Where this has gone off the tracks is how the West have taken it upon themselves to be the righteous ones.

Going as far as to sanction individual Russians!

Imagine if that was applied to America in all their all their wars!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
I do agree with you on this though —

https://www.theguardian.com/co...tair-campbell-russia

To be honest with you, any individual who does not like senseless wars would agree.

If you look at the bigger, what Russia is doing in the Ukraine is nothing new.

In the latter half of last century, and earlier on in this one, America has been at it non stop!

Where this has gone off the tracks is how the West have taken it upon themselves to be the righteous ones.

Going as far as to sanction individual Russians!

Imagine if that was applied to America in all their all their wars!

Not true at all.

When was the last time America seized foreign land an annexed it into the United States?

We certainly have tried and usually failed to spread Democratic values and Governance. We have never tried to erase(other than Native Americans) the existence and identity of a whole country like Russia is doing in Ukraine.

We should sanction more individual Russians and any person or country that attempts to help them evade sanctions. I'm sure you would disagree because that would put a crimp in the lucrative business the UAE has been engaged in of playing both sides against each other for your own gain.

Imagine a world where those who claim to your alley in a time of need are actually your alley all the time. Hard for you to fathom, I'm sure.

One could argue Hawaii, the Indian wars, and as recently as the Spanish American war (Puerto Rico).

As far as drones are concerned, I’m kind of like Saeed. As far as I’m concerned, they should have no rights of safe conduct.

If you fly your drone over my property, I should be allowed to get rid of it however I choose. I know it’s not the law as it has been ruled here, but that’s how I feel about it.

The reason we were flying a drone there was at best to monitor the Russian actions from nearby international air space, which is not illegal… but providing the intelligence from it to Ukraine is technically a violation of neutrality… and a belligerent has a right to disrupt that under the laws of war, don’t they?

We used a drone because it was much less dangerous to our personnel than flying an AWACS or other intel gathering aircraft. Looks like with good reason- imagine if that had been a manned aircraft that they splashed?

quote:

If you fly your drone over my property

The area of the Black Sea where the drone was is recognized as "International Airspace"

You cannot have countries deciding to remove other countries property in such recognized common use airspace, with or without human's aboard.

And,
the air space over your house is not technically "yours" - (as you alluded to)
check the FAA rules/regs for aircraft and drones.

That said ,
someone, anyone, hovering a drone over my patio and peering through my windows (without a warrant) should NOT be allowed.

quote:

Him, Bush 2 and Cheney.

What they have done pales in comparison to what Putin can ever do.

Exactly!

I have to agree with Saeed
If drones spy on enemy and send intel to enemy of my enemy while trying to be neutral ( not engaged in war ) , then they are fair game
I think every country would feel that way if in same spot

quote:

Originally posted by Kanec:
I have to agree with Saeed
If drones spy on enemy and send intel to enemy of my enemy while trying to be neutral ( not engaged in war ) , then they are fair game
I think every country would feel that way if in same spot

Don't be naive. Or a defender of Russia, our enemy.

Every world power spies on the others from international waters, air, and space. While tolerating each other's spying in respect to the neutrality of international territory.

So long as international spying is the norm, I want my country, the USA, to be the best at it. Maybe I do have a nationalistic bone in my body.

What country do you swear allegiance to, Kanec? It can't be the US, or you wouldn't be dreaming up apologies for our enemies.

To splash another country's drone in international airspace is an act of provocation that could lead to an escalation of conflict.

i am not willing to go to war over an rc TOY

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

If you fly your drone over my property

The area of the Black Sea where the drone was is recognized as "International Airspace"

You cannot have countries deciding to remove other countries property in such recognized common use airspace, with or without human's aboard.

And,
the air space over your house is not technically "yours" - (as you alluded to)
check the FAA rules/regs for aircraft and drones.

That said ,
someone, anyone, hovering a drone over my patio and peering through my windows (without a warrant) should NOT be allowed.

my casting net is remarkably effective on drones in my yard -