They still won't give Biden any....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...9811453dbdd16c&ei=86

I mean, weirdly, your article is pretty grossly, factually, incorrect -

And the same article is factually incorrect in major particulars -
Article says
"will unleash over 40 billion investment from samsung"
Samsung says up to $17b https://semiconductor.samsung..../sas/company/taylor/

Article says "creating at least 21,500 jobs"
Samsung says "20,000 is the number of samsung employees across the US" and TWO THOUSAND in the Taylor plant again, according to Samsung

oh, and ground breaking started in 2022, not "Recently"

i mean, it's just weird, symple, how your articles frequently don't stand up to the minimum of fact checking

Nitpicking the details, in a lame attempt to blow past the point. Texas, a state that will likely just vote red again, gets a major financial boost from this. You think trump would have worked on this for a blue state he wouldn't win? You think GOP politicians in Texas won't be crowing about how they made this happen, like Bobblehead in Colorado or MTG in Georgia? Deflection is not your best game.

quote:

Raimondo said she expects the project will create at least 17,000 construction jobs and more than 4,500 manufacturing jobs.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Nitpicking the details, in a lame attempt to blow past the point. Texas, a state that will likely just vote red again, gets a major financial boost from this. You think trump would have worked on this for a blue state he wouldn't win? You think GOP politicians in Texas won't be crowing about how they made this happen, like Bobblehead in Colorado or MTG in Georgia? Deflection is not your best game.

I dont really feel like 17B instead of 40B and 2,000 jobs instead of 21,000 jobs is merely "details". That said any move to bring semiconductors home is a good thing. If WE can actually bring that back domestically, it takes one more thing off the Taiwan plate.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Nitpicking the details, in a lame attempt to blow past the point. Texas, a state that will likely just vote red again, gets a major financial boost from this. You think trump would have worked on this for a blue state he wouldn't win? You think GOP politicians in Texas won't be crowing about how they made this happen, like Bobblehead in Colorado or MTG in Georgia? Deflection is not your best game.

"nitpicking"
90+% less jobs than advertised is not nitpicking -- it's not "close enough"

60% LESS investment than stated isn't nitpicking

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Raimondo said she expects the project will create at least 17,000 construction jobs and more than 4,500 manufacturing jobs.

The project started in 2022 - and the number of actual jobs, 4,500, is more than a 100% overstatement of the actual --

This isn't notpicking.. nitpicking would be a claimed 2,000 jobs, and the results were +/- 10-15% ..

But I am seeing a trend, close enough -- anything YOU support, with a granule of fact is acceptable -- anything you don't doesn't matter if the facts are 100% correct, you disagree with it

In other words, lies and propaganda is perfectly acceptable to you --

Go back to the cafe, I am sure they have another pot of coffee for you to nurse all day

Again, you are deflecting. The point was that the Texas GOP will certainly try to hijack from Biden & take credit for whatever comes in. Regardless of whatever the actual, arguable numbers are. I guess it's over your head.

And I have to repeat myself again.

Why would they put it in Texas with all the issues that Texas has (per the left) instead of a bastion of educated fairly paid workers like CA, WA, or, yes, MN?

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Again, you are deflecting. The point was that the Texas GOP will certainly try to hijack from Biden & take credit for whatever comes in. Regardless of whatever the actual, arguable numbers are. I guess it's over your head.

Actually, you are deflecting -- YOU presented lies that took 1 second to debunk -- say, did you coach trump on how to value his properties?


So, when you find yourself in a hole, step 1 is to stop digging -

I go guess that the ACTUAL numbers, posted by the company impacted, aren't good enough for you?

In a sense, if the feds stick to this story, it's a gross overstatement -- aka, a LIE and no, they shouldn't get "credit" for lying, when the facts are easily discernable and available

You don't support liars as heros, do you, symple?

YOU presented lies and are called out for it -- own it, or at least shutup about it

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Why would they put it in Texas with all the issues that Texas has (per the left) instead of a bastion of educated fairly paid workers like CA, WA, or, yes, MN?

Because Texas worked the deal with Samsung to expand their footprint in the Austin area, where they have been for decades, and more than likely offered local inducements and "sweeteners" --

With ground breaking starting in 2022, and these deals usually taking more than a minute to come up with, this MIGHT be a case of shared glory --

but "close enough" .. whew, i thought being off by 400 miles might learn him (he thinks huntsville is CLOSE ENOUGH to the border), but being off a REAL order of magnitude (that's an insult for those that don't understand math) -- i mean, "close enough" for him a bit wide ...

Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

Weird - When Obama FIRED 11,000 high paying jobs in Sealy and NASA, the numbers presented was 11,000 -- not a peep about the "knock-on impacts" ..

It's like Samsung said 2k people, and slippery joe (it's presented under his name in the announcement) decided it was more than 10 times as many jobs --

Ever been to taylor? the WHOLE CITY is listed at 16k residents as of the last census - so, literally, the "numbers" provided expect that 150% of the population would work for the chip plant?

nah, it's called "lies"

no one "ever" talks about the "related jobs" in a high-tech layoff .. funny how that works

But don't confuse poor symple ..

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

If you make wild estimates for your personal gain, that’s lying… Trump type lying.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

No. The numbers just got fudged. They all do it.

quote:

Originally posted by zebrazapper:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

No. The numbers just got fudged. They all do it.

so, biden is "innocent" and trump is a "felon" .. other way round? both? either? neither?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently.

i recall when the trump admin called this "alternative facts" - i am not certain my opinion THEN could go any lower, and it certainly hasn't improved

Speaking of “alternative facts”, who can forget one of the all time, greatest hits. Redrawing the National Hurricane Center cone of possibility map for Hurricane Dorian to show Alabama in the cone . . . in order to make your previous mistake seem correct. There are amateurs and professionals when it comes to “alternative facts”, give credit where credit is due, Trump is the master of the craft.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by zebrazapper:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

No. The numbers just got fudged. They all do it.

so, biden is "innocent" and trump is a "felon" .. other way round? both? either? neither?

Both in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Speaking of “alternative facts”, who can forget one of the all time, greatest hits. Redrawing the National Hurricane Center cone of possibility map for Hurricane Dorian to show Alabama in the cone . . . in order to make your previous mistake seem correct. There are amateurs and professionals when it comes to “alternative facts”, give credit where credit is due, Trump is the master of the craft.

you, maybe we SHOULD bring back the pillory for lying

Alternative facts are non-existent.

This may create additional jobs beyond Samsung.

We had this in coal mining and why the coal market crash and subsequent concentration of industry hurt.

Thousands of Turk drivers, welded, diesel mechanics, and small operators that leased permitted operations that were independent contractors disappeared from the work force.

I do not know of this package is creating those types of jobs. It is possible.

A bigger conversation is why does a corporation like Samsung get this play instead of hundreds of smaller outfits and startups to make these chips? Or how about no one as the right is all about hands off markers and competition.

Samsung gets an infusion of capital its smaller competitors or would be competitors do not have access to.

All I took from this is that the government paid 6.4 billion to get a corporation to come to the land of the free market. I guess that's a win? Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
All I took from this is that the government paid 6.4 billion to get a corporation to come to the land of the free market. I guess that's a win? Bill

Why can’t Texas Instruments build these chips. They are already in Texas.

I am not comfortable w giving Samsung, Apple, IBM, etc billions of dollars in capital that a new start up does not have access too or at best is done as a loan.

I also do not agree with the practice of putting local property tax and employment taxes we all have to pay, but letting a big cooperation be exempt from those taxes for upteen years. However, if the local governments want to give such deals (mine did), it is what it is. If you do not like it enough, the answers are vote and campaign against.

It is not free market, hands off capitalism.

Maybe, it is like complaining the ski is above one’s head. I would prefer those on the right who like this not tell me what free market, hands off, capitalist they are. This is not being that.

Let us just be honest about it, and get the best deal we can.

I do not blame Samsung. I blame the model that provided Samsung free capital while letting a small business fail and calling it free market, capitalism.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
All I took from this is that the government paid 6.4 billion to get a corporation to come to the land of the free market. I guess that's a win? Bill

Why can’t Texas Instruments build these chips. They are already in Texas..

TI hasn't made a significant chip in decades -- quick name TWO ti products that aren't calculators

samsung's global revenue is more than 10x TIs -

Samsung has been building plants in austin since the 90s, TI is in Dallas

TI is the sector owner for analog chips -
Samsung is a leader in digital chips

the difference between analog and digital tech is pretty wide - to the point that linking the articles to show the differences would be exhausting --

In other words, TI isn't in the space, and would have to invent it's business - TI's revenues are just about 50% higher last year than in 2001 - samsung lost more money on the note7 than TI made that year -

so, david and goliath, except goliath is also a sailor, a ship builder, owns all the blacksmiths in the region, and david sprained his back yesterday --

in short, TI isn't a player in the space

You are making my point.

Why give a company e 10x the revenue this money.

It is cooperate welfare of the highest order. I would be fine if companies had to bid on it.

What could Texas Instruments do w an extra 6billion on free capital and government contract?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Biden may not be lying. He may just be counting them differently. Samsung is probably talking about the number of additional Samsung employees that will be hired for the expansion.

But there is also an indirect number that might be used by more creative politicians. In addition to Samsung employees, one might count the additional hamburger flippers, cab drivers, grocery clerks, and everyone else hired to serve the additional 2,000. All as projected by statistics, no doubt.

I'd be interested in knowing how Biden is counting.

Weird - When Obama FIRED 11,000 high paying jobs in Sealy and NASA, the numbers presented was 11,000 -- not a peep about the "knock-on impacts" ..

It's like Samsung said 2k people, and slippery joe (it's presented under his name in the announcement) decided it was more than 10 times as many jobs --

Ever been to taylor? the WHOLE CITY is listed at 16k residents as of the last census - so, literally, the "numbers" provided expect that 150% of the population would work for the chip plant?

nah, it's called "lies"

no one "ever" talks about the "related jobs" in a high-tech layoff .. funny how that works

But don't confuse poor symple ..

Obama doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. How about sticking to the point, which is whether Biden's job numbers are a lie?

Trump proves that a politician is free to lie his ass off. But some of his lies, if told in court, would count as perjury. Not so for Biden's jobs claim.

As I said, I'd like to hear Biden's explanation for the discrepancy. If he's indeed counting indirect jobs, I'll roll my eyes. But no court would convict him of perjury.

Roland,
well, darn... oh wait, *I* get to decide what I will talk about -

I presented, with a timeframe reference if one wished to look it up, an example where the yet to be determined concatenation method wasn't followed. It is a pointed example of either that the concatenation method isn't consistently used OR it's selectively used.

"Obama" is a time referent, sir, as well as a person -


I love the line "no court would convict him of perjury" -- perjury is a specific crime, which doesn't cover most forms of speech and expression. A 10x exaggeration, without even a disclaimer, is an out right lie -

Still comes back to the same thing. The US government paid 6.4 billion dollars to get a foreign based company to set up a facility in Texas. This is the government version of Made in America. It will be interesting to see how many workers are imported as well. There is no win here. Now, if Samsung paid for the opportunity to manufacture something in the US, that would be a win. Unrealistic, I know. Corporate welfare is so entrenched, it will never go away. Regards, Bill

The money could have went to other companies that do not have the capital Samsung does, start ups, or at least bid it.

Like I said earlier. Okay, I get it. Just don’t call it free market, hands off, capitalism.

Smaller companies do not get this benefit. At best, they get loans.

What could Texas Instruments do w this free capital?

I agree Bill Leeper.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Roland,
well, darn... oh wait, *I* get to decide what I will talk about -

I presented, with a timeframe reference if one wished to look it up, an example where the yet to be determined concatenation method wasn't followed. It is a pointed example of either that the concatenation method isn't consistently used OR it's selectively used.

"Obama" is a time referent, sir, as well as a person -


I love the line "no court would convict him of perjury" -- perjury is a specific crime, which doesn't cover most forms of speech and expression. A 10x exaggeration, without even a disclaimer, is an out right lie -

You didn't mention phony or questionable job numbers claimed by Republican presidents...weird.

Well, if we decided to bring critical defense manufacturing back to the US, and the Feds spent billions of the public money to get it back in the US… why was Texas chosen as the site?

I suppose it had nothing to do with Texas’ better business climate?

Silicon Valley is in CA. It would make sense from a federal standpoint to place this there… but Samsung decided in TX.

I have no observations about what state the company located to.

My issue is as stated.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Roland,
well, darn... oh wait, *I* get to decide what I will talk about -

I presented, with a timeframe reference if one wished to look it up, an example where the yet to be determined concatenation method wasn't followed. It is a pointed example of either that the concatenation method isn't consistently used OR it's selectively used.

"Obama" is a time referent, sir, as well as a person -


I love the line "no court would convict him of perjury" -- perjury is a specific crime, which doesn't cover most forms of speech and expression. A 10x exaggeration, without even a disclaimer, is an out right lie -

You didn't mention phony or questionable job numbers claimed by Republican presidents...weird.

and yet you were the one that called me out for "obama" .. yeah, it's weird

The whole thread was about the GOP taking credit for bringing a chip manufacturing plant back to the US and the republicans taking credit for it.

If it’s Biden’s doing, why is it in Texas? The feds can give money anywhere in the US.

The answer seems obvious… Texas (Republican dominated) has a much better business climate than other states with lower costs involved and adequate worker availability.

That would seem to be a GOP credit, no?

They didn’t put it in a democrat run state for the “higher quality workforce” or better public works, or increased regulatory monitoring.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I have no observations about what state the company located to.

My issue is as stated.

and yet you think congress should also decide how much oil can be produced and sold at what price - shesh, man, pick a side

Texas was involved in negotiations with Samsung before the chips act was passed - it's a series of facts.

samsung can make, with a proven track record, the relevant chips that the CHIPS act wanted --

TI? no, bro.. they should be selling coach whips for all their innovation - here in Dallas they have sold/leased off their major huge R&D campus, retracted to a much smaller footprint, and aren't engaging in fighting for cutting edge chips .. so, nah...

give the money to a startup? here's what happened the last time the government gave freebie money to a startup/innovative-but-unproven company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

Oh, and to the OPs point, I still have yet to see a GOP official claim credit for the CHIPS act investment

I never said that. I said it is constitutional for Congress to pass such a law.

I also do not claim to be a hands off, free market purity, capitalist.

I am just tried of large cooperations getting free capital and tax breaks the smaller competitors and would be competitors do not get.

Well, it may be legal for them to do it as far as the law, but is it right?

Free markets as much as possible are good. Unfortunately, with the desire of large corporations to essentially control their competition and monopolize corporate power isn’t free market either.

I don’t disagree with your last sentence. That’s certainly not free market capitalism either.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I never said that. I said it is constitutional for Congress to pass such a law.

I also do not claim to be a hands off, free market purity, capitalist.

I am just tried of large cooperations getting free capital and tax breaks the smaller competitors and would be competitors do not get.

That is a policy question. I would answer it depends.

If Congress wanted to deflate the price of gasoline at the pump. The easiest way would be to mandate all oil production must be sold, refined, and used within the United States. Thus, supply would be saturated.

The production set by OPEC would mean less to us. Best way to do this would be with Tax incentives. Frankly, those would not be necessary as Congress regulates interstate and international commerce.

There are always consequences.

I am not advocating right or wrong. Those are subjective opinions based on one’s goals or point of view. I am just telling you what is constitutional. Right or wrong is, ultimately, for voters and legislators to decide as stated by Chief Justice Marshall.

See McCullough v Maryland:

But is this a case of confidence? Would the people of any one State trust those of another with a power to control the most insignificant operations of their State government? We know they would not. Why, then, should we suppose that the people of any one State should be willing to trust those of another with a power to control the operations of a government to which they have confided their most important and most valuable interests? In the legislature of the Union alone, are all represented. The legislature of the Union alone, therefore, can be trusted by the people with the power of controlling measures which concern all, in the confidence that it will not be abused. This, then, is not a case of confidence, and we must consider it as it really is.

The above is the rest of the power to tax is the power to destroy white everyone spouts off. Well, the above is Chief Justice Marshall saying, “Elections have consequences, and the power to tax rest with Congress.” Right or wrong is up to the sovereign people being the voter.

Just for the fun of it. Early language from McCullough v Maryland establishing the supremacy of the Federal government over the responsibility delegated to it by the Constitution to the exclusion of a state government.

The result is a conviction that the States have no power, by taxation or otherwise, to retard, impede, burden, or in any manner control, the operations of the constitutional laws enacted by Congress to carry into execution the powers vested in the general government.

The 1819 reaching up to tell Texas what real original intent means.

Like I have demonstrated with the 2nd Amendment (with caselaw), what some think the Constitution’s original interpretations meant, and what it really means are not the same.

Another great example is the right to privacy being explicit within the 4th Amendment. Now, we can argue whether the right to privacy found in the Constitution extends to other things. However, it is foolish to deny a right to privacy is explicit within the confines of the Constitution as amended.

Then, we move to the Incorporation Doctrine incorporating that right (and others) against state legislatures.