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Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
OK, as long as we are asking the big questions this morning, how DO we resolve the festering problem of our porous Southern border and our completely non-functional immigration system?

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Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Even young genius software engineers waiting for work visas? What about all those laborers without whom many of our private sector businesses would stutter, or come to a halt? And then there is agriculture.

~Ann

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
OK, as long as we are asking the big questions this morning, how DO we resolve the festering problem of our porous Southern border and our completely non-functional immigration system?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Even young genius software engineers waiting for work visas? What about all those laborers without whom many of our private sector businesses would stutter, or come to a halt? And then there is agriculture.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
An easy, online and in-person (kiosk?) CHEAP process, with background checks, issuing a TIN, for non-h1b roles -

This should be able to be done after-the-fact, in the case of those in the countries

with SEVER penalties for avoidance/misuse

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
because I am not a vindictive person, and I care about making the future better - this is the land of opportunity, and *I* think it should be open to all productive people who want it. Let's say there's a building company, with 100 illegal roofers - then, tomorrow, all of them have a TIN, could have legal employment, paying taxes, getting a fair-er wage, and not having to worry about being run off without pay --

it will increase the costs of the company, and all those people will be better for it.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
because I am not a vindictive person, and I care about making the future better - this is the land of opportunity, and *I* think it should be open to all productive people who want it. Let's say there's a building company, with 100 illegal roofers - then, tomorrow, all of them have a TIN, could have legal employment, paying taxes, getting a fair-er wage, and not having to worry about being run off without pay --

it will increase the costs of the company, and all those people will be better for it.

Or, the owner, who is breaking the Law, and his office staff, who are breaking the Law, and his foremen, who are breaking the Law, could all go to prison for breaking the Law and word would very quickly get carried back by all the deported roofers that there are no jobs, stay away.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
will have zero effect on the border -
you are a vindictive person, I am not.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Jeff,
you are vindictive - until it's your bull that getting gored - Texas, for example, is really darn close to 50/50 GOP and Dems - We can assume that both sides equally partake in businesses - If we look at the Valley, it's much higher Dems - but who's employing the migrants (that's Texas for illegal pickers) ? Who's paying way below minimum wage?

Then we look at the big cities, which are further blue than the rest of the state, where the majority of these hypothetical roofers are engaged, as well as day laborers are being picked up at home depot -- I lay all this out as you have ZERO experience with what is actually happening, but I digress - If one is in Dallas, Travis, Bexar, counties, where nearly the majority of Dems live in Texas, that percentage is higher than, say, Denton, Montgomery, and Firestone counties -

Where, in fact, YOUR vindictive program would statistically pickup a far greater percentage of Dems than GOP -- your bull being gored, sir.

Neverminding that in the Dem Home states of California (they don't have magically legal migrants) and NY, where GOP is an endangered species, have huge illegal populations --

Jeff, let's face it, you present as mean spirited, vindictive, and frankly, short sighted in these matters - I expect that your "i don't mince words" attitude has resulted in a higher level of altercations than most people would see - and I would go so far as to think you are proud of you pugnacious attitude -

that's cool, boo, you do you.

but the question is what to do to solve the issue, and your "solution" does ZERO to help the illegals already present, in the tens of millions -

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but the question is what to do to solve the issue, and your "solution" does ZERO to help the illegals already present, in the tens of millions

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
See, that's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican: I favor prosecuting law breakers without regard to their political party, it's the violation of the Law that matters and the Law says hiring undocumented people is illegal.

And your insistence that this will have no effect is nonsensical. If you dry up all the jobs people are working illegally not only do those people leave because they can't get another job but when they get home they tell folks there not to bother coming.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, I'm just not in favor of granting amnesty to Republican law breakers who have spent years making money off those they vilify.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
See, that's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican: I favor prosecuting law breakers without regard to their political party, it's the violation of the Law that matters and the Law says hiring undocumented people is illegal.

And your insistence that this will have no effect is nonsensical. If you dry up all the jobs people are working illegally not only do those people leave because they can't get another job but when they get home they tell folks there not to bother coming.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, I'm just not in favor of granting amnesty to Republican law breakers who have spent years making money off those they vilify.

Which of these two statements above was your LIE? Both, direct quotes from you, can't be equal truths - in one post you are vindictive against GOP, in the other post you feign equal-handedness - can't have it both ways -- either way, not only are you vindictive, you are, by your OWN words, a liar - expect you don't care

As for destroying their jobs without offering help -
Then they will starve in place, as they will have no money, nor hope of it, for traveling -


The question of the OP is "How do we solve the border/immigration issue?" I have presented a solution - you have presented a calamity

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Originally posted by Jefffive:

I think you're wrong about where prosecutions/disgorgements would impact,

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Originally posted by Jefffive: I think it would hit many more Republican owners and investors if CEOs and managers are jailed and shareholders who profited from lawbreaking are forced to forfeit their ill-gotten gains,

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Originally posted by Jefffive: but it doesn't matter: enforce the existing Law against hiring undocumented workers and let the chips fall where they may.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:

And they didn't "starve in place" before coming here, and made a damned sight less, so I'm sure that. given the incentive of there being NO jobs they'll get home just fine.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

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Originally posted by Jefffive:

I think you're wrong about where prosecutions/disgorgements would impact,

I'm not - I live here, have setup businesses here, and hired construction companies - the state is roughly 40/40% Anglo/Hispanic - and roughly 50/50% Dem and GOP - but which of your statements was the lie?

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Originally posted by Jefffive: I think it would hit many more Republican owners and investors if CEOs and managers are jailed and shareholders who profited from lawbreaking are forced to forfeit their ill-gotten gains,

so, in ignorance, you think that the majority of business owners in Texas are Anglo - of course you do- With the state evenly split, and people being people, it's about half - Here's a CLUE, frequently Hispanics only work for Hispanics, as relatively few Anglos north of I10 speak spanish - I'm an exception to that, but no real import - but mighty racist of you to assume Hispanics aren't running companies

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Originally posted by Jefffive: but it doesn't matter: enforce the existing Law against hiring undocumented workers and let the chips fall where they may.

So, starving in place and drivng out long time familes is cool with you .. vindictive and heartless - got it

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Originally posted by Jefffive:

And they didn't "starve in place" before coming here, and made a damned sight less, so I'm sure that. given the incentive of there being NO jobs they'll get home just fine.

Dude, tell you what - take $20, leave EVERYTHING you own at home - sure, take your car/truck, that's fine - and try to drive to the Border -- it's 872 miles to Eagle Pass, and 881 to my favorite border town, Laredo - over 900 to Brownsville -- Take your, presumed, wife, and your truck full of gas, no id, no passport, no credit cards, no money past $20 bucks, and whatever food and water you have stored in your house - and start driving - you might decide to sell the vehicle prior to leaving, for extra cash, and make your way to Guatemala - and then, with what few dollars you have left, (no pension money, either) and start a life -- oh, yeah, bring your adult kids, as well....

It will be starve in place, local shelter, churches and charities that pay for you pogrom of destroying everything these people might have worked for --


You are so far removed for from the problem, your opinion isn't helpful


So, which time were you LYING, Jeff? going after everyone, equally, or just GOP? your answer isn't required, as your own proofs make you a liar -- word is bond, huh? going to get stroppy over your own words proving you to be a LIAR? I couldn't care less which path you choose, as you are just full of beans

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Easy solution to illegal entry, set up the mechanisms for background checks and jack up the quotas...

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
OK, as long as we are asking the big questions this morning, how DO we resolve the festering problem of our porous Southern border and our completely non-functional immigration system?

Jail those who employ undocumented workers for long terms and take all the money they have made by doing so, from managers on the floor to CEOs, and force shareholders to disgorge all gains made while a company knowingly or negligently used undocumented labor.

Right now Republican claims that "The border is wide open" are reaching would-be immigrants in Central and South America, starting them north. Replace that with "Nobody will hire undocumented workers" and the flow will slow to a trickle.

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Given our social welfare system, I don’t agree with granting anyone refugee status on economic grounds. That’s essentially what regular immigration is.

I also don’t think that our immigration system should be doing anything based on social Justice. It’s an economic and legal system only.

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And the roofing company down the street that has always abided by the Law would no longer have to compete with the scoflaws, because they'd be in prison.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Jeff,
you are vindictive - until it's your bull that getting gored - Texas, for example, is really darn close to 50/50 GOP and Dems - We can assume that both sides equally partake in businesses - If we look at the Valley, it's much higher Dems - but who's employing the migrants (that's Texas for illegal pickers) ? Who's paying way below minimum wage?

Then we look at the big cities, which are further blue than the rest of the state, where the majority of these hypothetical roofers are engaged, as well as day laborers are being picked up at home depot -- I lay all this out as you have ZERO experience with what is actually happening, but I digress - If one is in Dallas, Travis, Bexar, and Harris counties, where nearly the majority of Dems live in Texas, that percentage is higher than, say, Denton, Montgomery, and Firestone counties -

Where, in fact, YOUR vindictive program would statistically pickup a far greater percentage of Dems than GOP -- your bull being gored, sir.

Neverminding that in the Dem Home states of California (they don't have magically legal migrants) and NY, where GOP is an endangered species, have huge illegal populations --

Jeff, let's face it, you present as mean spirited, vindictive, and frankly, short sighted in these matters - I expect that your "i don't mince words" attitude has resulted in a higher level of altercations than most people would see - and I would go so far as to think you are proud of you pugnacious attitude -

that's cool, boo, you do you.

but the question is what to do to solve the issue, and your "solution" does ZERO to help the illegals already present, in the tens of millions -

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes, Jeff - the majority of Texans live in a triangle - Harris to Bexar, through Travis, up to Tarrant/Dallas and back down through to Harris - 21 of 29 million - which holds the majority of major companies, including Fortune 500 company head quarters, and, relevant to the discussion, the overwhelming majority of houses being built -

but don't take my word for it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Triangle

You lack of knowledge of Texas combined with your willingness to expose it, is, well, telling. I also assume you have zero clue as to how low of a population density that that makes for the other areas --

It's illegal for a illegal alien to be within the Boundaries of Texas -- It's also illegal to speed on the highways -


So, back to you, with your profound lack of knowledge of the issue, which of your statements is a lie?

Seems like you don't know, but default to being vindictive.

Those feeling that our social programs can't support this, the fact is we already ARE supporting it - therefore increased Taxes from a worker's visa literally couldn't do anything but help

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
I utterly reject your assertion that my statements are contradictory.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
See, that's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican: I favor prosecuting law breakers without regard to their political party,

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, I'm just not in favor of granting amnesty to Republican law breakers who have spent years making money off those they vilify.

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
I utterly reject your assertion that my statements are contradictory.

and yet they are - i guess you like alternative facts

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
See, that's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican: I favor prosecuting law breakers without regard to their political party,

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, I'm just not in favor of granting amnesty to Republican law breakers who have spent years making money off those they vilify.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

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Originally posted by TomP:
Easy solution to illegal entry, set up the mechanisms for background checks and jack up the quotas...

I could work with that - and it be affordable

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Enforce the law and let the chips lie where they fall.

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
If only one of our political parties had been trying for years to advance Comprehensive Immigration Reform without any cooperation from the other party...

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Originally posted by JTEX:

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
If only one of our political parties had been trying for years to advance Comprehensive Immigration Reform without any cooperation from the other party...

I assume you're referring to democrats? They had the chance under Clinton, obama and biden......did they do it? No! Why not? Because they don't care, they just use it as sheep fodder....just like the daca kids.....

If these illegals were driving down lawyers and politicians wages.....the border would be closed!!!!


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