Well, this will spark a spicey discussion - Trump ENEMY defends him --

"The attorney general’s case in New York frankly should have never been brought," (Andy)Cuomo declared

quote:

Former Democratic Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo recently told HBO host Bill Maher that if former President Trump wasn’t running for president, he would’ve never been prosecuted in the state for his hush money payments.

quote:

Former Gov. Cuomo hits Trump conviction: If he wasn’t running, ‘case would’ve never been brought’
'If his name was not Donald Trump and if he wasn’t running for president... that case would’ve never been brought,' Cuomo said on HBO's 'Real Time'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/...ouldve-never-brought

Note that he never states that trump is innocent of the charges.

Political fallout isn't a reason not to pursue political figures who commit crimes. Quite frankly, I read his comments to say that FOX and trump's bullshit "lawfare" arguments may have have gained some traction with the public. It's just like every other lie that trump tells: if he repeats it enough times, people start to believe it. And, we all know that one of the side effects of the conviction has been to rile up the cult members. None of that surprises me. And, none of it means trump didn't commit the crimes he was charged with. He did.

Hahaha!

One crook defending another!

It was lawfare pure and simple. Most Democrats just admit it anymore…why are you running from it Mike?

What they did was take a divided country and turn the tension up about 100°.

Normal people saw this for what it is without any help.

It sickens me as to what our country has fallen to.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It was lawfare pure and simple. Most Democrats just admit it anymore…why are you running from it Mike?

What they did was take a divided country and turn the tension up about 100°.

Normal people saw this for what it is without any help.

It sickens me as to what our country has fallen to.

What's sickening is that a narcissistic philandering seditionist who cheats on his wife and lies every single time he opens his mouth is the presidential candidate you have chosen to align yourself with morally. Why do you keep running from that? Embrace it and admit it.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It was lawfare pure and simple. Most Democrats just admit it anymore…why are you running from it Mike?

What they did was take a divided country and turn the tension up about 100°.

Normal people saw this for what it is without any help.

It sickens me as to what our country has fallen to.

What's sickening is that a narcissistic philandering seditionist who cheats on his wife and lies every single time he opens his mouth is the presidential candidate you have chosen to align yourself with morally. Why do you keep running from that? Embrace it and admit it.

Ideologues running cardboard cutout candidates. I'll invoke Hunter S Thompson one more time.
As long as we are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils, the evils will get worse.

No shit, Sherlock...

It would be lawfare to not prosecute Trump for EVERY infraction of the rule of law.

Every effort to cover or make excuses for Trump is lawfare; a direct attack on the rule of law, and founding principles.

This is how devoted they are:

https://www.politico.com/news/...-hush-money-00164573

GOP resolution calls on SCOTUS to ‘intervene’ in Trump’s hush money case
The measure, introduced Friday by Rep. William Timmons, will likely wind up being symbolic in nature because of a series of formidable legal hurdles it faces.

Rep. William Timmons (R-S.C.) introduced a resolution Friday urging the Supreme Court to “intervene” in the hush money case against former President Donald Trump before the 2024 election — a move that experts say is a political stunt that faces significant legal obstacles.

More on lawfare:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...kBq?ocid=socialshare

'Get ready for a big mess': Supreme Court's Trump immunity decision expected next week

The Supreme Court has waited months to rule on Donald Trump's claim of presidential immunity, helping him avoid more criminal trials during his campaign. Former Supreme Court clerk Leah Li

I suppose Lane would say that nailing Al Capone for tax evasion was "lawfare" too. He acts like it is a novel and deplorable practice to identify a criminal, then seek by whatever means is possible to prosecute and convict the criminal. Instead of focusing on whether the person actually did the crime and is in fact a criminal, you get all whiny and preachy about the means that were used to get the criminal. Sorry, I am not going to get all teary eyed that any criminal that gets their just reward for their criminality was convicted based on a little used law.

https://youtube.com/shorts/UQA...?si=66doXfestQtsNm7B

The late great Al Capone

The "lawfare" argument is nothing more than a rationalization that allows the trumptards to continue supporting trump even though he committed and was convicted of committing multiple felonies. Paint it as political persecution and it becomes acceptable. Classic third-world country behavior and trump playbook stuff. It works if you're a dumbass.

I agree with you regarding the folks that only think Trump is the guy being persecuted.

But unequal application of the law has been a longstanding problem, and many have been upset about it well before the NY case occurred.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
The "lawfare" argument is nothing more than a rationalization that allows the trumptards to continue supporting trump even though he committed and was convicted of committing multiple felonies. Paint it as political persecution and it becomes acceptable. Classic third-world country behavior and trump playbook stuff. It works if you're a dumbass.

quote:

But unequal application of the law has been a longstanding problem, and many have been upset about it well before the NY case occurred.

Yea, this "unequal" application of law, the nature of which only well-lawyered rich can afford has a lot of people upset. With Trump it's just a cost of doing business, private and public.

He doesn't squeal until the cost exceeds the rewards, then it's persecution.

Poor guy!

The second-most thing Trump has engaged in for his entire life is lawfare. The first, of course, is liefare, by a large margin. Both are extraordinary.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...irs_of_Donald_Trump#

Personal and business legal affairs of Donald Trump

From the 1970s until he was elected president in 2016, Donald Trump and his businesses were involved in over 4,000 legal cases in United States federal and state courts, including battles with casino patrons, million-dollar real estate lawsuits, personal defamation lawsuits, and over 100 business tax disputes.
Penzenstadler, Nick; Reilly, Steve (July 7, 2016). "Donald Trump: Three decades, 4,095 lawsuits". USA Today. Retrieved April 11, 2023.

In 2015, Trump's lawyer Alan Garten called Trump's legal entanglements "a natural part of doing business" in the U.S.[5][6]

Between October 2021 and July 2022 alone, the Republican National Committee paid more than US$2 million to attorneys representing Trump in his presidential, personal, and business capacities.[8] The New York Times published an overview of his legal involvements as of September 2022.[9] In January 2023, a federal judge fined Trump and his attorney nearly $1 million, characterizing him as "a prolific and sophisticated litigant who is repeatedly using the courts to seek revenge on political adversaries".[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ruction_of_documents

"Over the course of decades, Donald Trump's companies have systematically destroyed or hidden thousands of emails, digital records and paper documents demanded in official proceedings, often in defiance of court orders.... In each instance, Trump and entities he controlled also erected numerous hurdles that made lawsuits drag on for years, forcing courtroom opponents to spend huge sums of money in legal fees as they struggled—sometimes in vain—to obtain records."[390]

https://www.azcentral.com/page...ives/trump-lawsuits/

Donald Trump: Three decades
4,095 lawsuits

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...d_Trump_as_president

Legal affairs of Donald Trump as president

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It was lawfare pure and simple. Most Democrats just admit it anymore…why are you running from it Mike?

What they did was take a divided country and turn the tension up about 100°.

Normal people saw this for what it is without any help.

It sickens me as to what our country has fallen to.

You're avoiding the real issue. Missing in your claim is any suggestion that Trump didn't do the crime, or any argument why he among other white-collar criminals should be let off the hook.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It was lawfare pure and simple. Most Democrats just admit it anymore…why are you running from it Mike?

What they did was take a divided country and turn the tension up about 100°.

Normal people saw this for what it is without any help.

It sickens me as to what our country has fallen to.

You're avoiding the real issue. Missing in your claim is any suggestion that Trump didn't do the crime, or any argument why he among other white-collar criminals should be let off the hook.

It is also amusing to see a trump supporter lamenting the state of a "divided country." That's a plank in trump's platform.

quote:

It is also amusing to see a trump supporter lamenting the state of a "divided country." That's a plank in trump's platform.

That's the foremost plank in Trump's platform. It's essential for Trumpism. Everything he says and does is to promote two things - division and winning, righteously. It's structured as existential good vs evil. He alone can fix it. The end justifies the means.

I see this a bit opposite. If the law being applied unequally, I feel no mercy for Trump, (the convicted,) but rather I feel condemnation for those not convicted of similar crimes.

If only one in one thousand burglars are caught and convicted I'd say law enforcement has 900 something to go.

quote:

Everything he says and does is to promote two things - division and winning, righteously.

You mean whining, not winning.

Claiming to be treated unfairly, persecuted by weaponizing the law for political reasons, that the system is unequal and broken, that he is the hero avatar for his followers (and country), is all part of the strategy, and looks like whining to some of us. But, as hard as it is to fathom, many buy it - it's effective on them.

Also, in large part it's projection of things he does, has done or will do, and claim "they" did it first as justifications.

It's not a "normal" formula for winning, but it's what Trump thinks and does. Along with other tactics it's working. After all, he is the presumptive GOPer nominee.

What I'm saying is characterizing Trump's behavior/strategy as whining is diminishing the reality of it.

Here's a new (3 hrs ago) article which explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...d330c4b98a24bb&ei=10

Pro-Trump extremists are sure he will win. That could be dangerous.
Story by Hannah Allam • 3h • 8 min read

(excerpt)

Donald Trump has a history of fiery calls urging supporters to rise up, and his most militant fans often have obliged.

So it might seem counterintuitive that now, as Trump faces unprecedented legal problems and a close election in November, the nation is experiencing a lull in political unrest — in fact, one of the quietest periods that extremism researchers have recorded in recent years.

Chief among the factors explaining the lack of political violence, analysts say, is a simple one: Trump’s supporters believe he will win the presidency.

Trump himself has contributed to that certainty by insisting the only way he can lose is if the other side cheats. There’s little reason for pro-Trump extremist groups or radicalized MAGA fans to demonstrate when they foresee the presumptive Republican nominee coasting to victory over President Biden in five months and positioned to enact promised “retribution” against his enemies in seven, political violence trackers say.

But in the eyes of many Trump backers, he is almost certain to prevail if the vote is fair. Their confidence carries risk: Experts warn that should Trump lose, the gap between expectation and reality could make for a highly combustible period after the election.

“They’re assuming that Trump is going to win, and what’s jazzing them up right now is, ‘Then it’s going to be time for retribution,’” said Mary McCord, a former federal prosecutor who now leads the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection, a Georgetown Law center focused on threats to U.S. security and democracy.

Should Trump lose, however, “it’s just going to be the same thing [as 2020],” she said. “‘This was rigged, they cheated, they stole this.’ That narrative is super dangerous.”

Given a national discourse rife with dehumanizing speech, and studies showing U.S. attitudes becoming more supportive of political violence, many extremism researchers fear the current lull is only a pause. Those fears are compounded, they add, by the hard right’s portrayal of Trump as not just a candidate but a savior, a messiah-like figure who represents their only hope of rescuing the republic from the “radical left.”

Supporters view the former president’s four criminal cases, including one that ended with 34 felony convictions last month, as “deep state” election interference. They printed his mug shot on T-shirts. They compared his indictments to the persecution of Christ. “Jesus went through a sham trial too, and I still follow Him,” reads one popular right-wing meme.

The religious-like fervor around Trump is dangerous, watchdog groups say, because it means a loss in November could turn him into a “martyr” that militant supporters then feel compelled to avenge.

Extremism monitors have warned for years that Trump’s incendiary rhetoric inspires real-world attacks. Assailants have invoked his name in dozens of violent episodes, and his “Stop the Steal” rallies in late 2020 and early 2021 after his election loss became magnets for members of the violent far-right groups that were instrumental in the Capitol attack.

(The article continues. It's well founded. I suggest reading all of it.)