In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

Oh boy. Here we go.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Oh boy. Here we go.

I got an email from our sainted governor seeking funds for a constitutional amendment on guns.
The wounded aren't even cold in their graves yet. Fasten seat belts for a bumpy ride...

Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

I dunno. At the range, some of the guys I’ve seen DO need a 30 round mag to hit a raccoon at 30 yards.

That being said, the violence is the problem, not the instrument used for violence.

Making WMD’s isn’t all that technically difficult. Look at some of the schmucks that have done so.

Do I have concerns about all the Walter Mitty types with SOF fantasies? Yes. But it’s the SOF fantasy that worries me more the rifle.

I’ve yet to see a firearm do anything without a shooter… and if we have a violent person, he’s going to do violence with something unless we do something about the person, not the object.

You can’t make the world safe regardless of what some people want to think.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds and provide a 1-to-1 swap for existing magazines.

After a three-month transition there would be a simple penalty for possession of an excluded magazine: permanent loss of the right to own or possess firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

But they are outstanding choices for wiping out sounders of pigs and for shooting them out helicopters. They also outstanding personal defense weapons when you have to live rurally along our southern border where these days you have the possibility of encountering cartel.

I am not giving up mine.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

But they are outstanding choices for wiping out sounders of pigs and for shooting them out helicopters. They also outstanding personal defense weapons when you have to live rurally along our southern border where these days you have the possibility of encountering cartel.

I am not giving up mine.

I'm sure some dead pigs in Texas will be a great comfort to the families of the dead in Maine.

If anyone wants to do gun crime, they’ll find the way

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
If anyone wants to do gun crime, they’ll find the way

That's certainly true, but that's no reason to not do what we can to limit how much damage they can do very quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

But they are outstanding choices for wiping out sounders of pigs and for shooting them out helicopters. They also outstanding personal defense weapons when you have to live rurally along our southern border where these days you have the possibility of encountering cartel.

I am not giving up mine.

Ah, yes. The marauding bands of cartel members on the border. Running young girls off the road and rampaging around.

I would like to see some effort put into studying where these people are coming from and what we can do to limit their impact on law abiding lives. The fundamental problem will always be the actor not the inanimate object. If their were zero guns in the US the day before this happen. We still had this hate bomb wanting desperately to kill a lot of people. Does anyone believe, the gun caused the hate? Who couldn’t kill a couple dozen people at one go without firearms? It would be unfortunately easy. Why did he even want to think about doing it? That is the ultimate question.

So we outlaw guns then they use cars or poisons or homemade bombs or fire, and on and on until like England we end up outlawing knives. Then and only then will we look at the causation and not the tool.


The politically expedient answer is to do something that looks decisive rather then effective. I get that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

100% agree. This is an absolute fact. There are way too many AR’s and high capacity magazines in circulation to unring this bell. Any feel good ongoing preventative measures are just that-feel good bandaids with jackshit chance of making a difference.

If you have 50+ ANTIFA terrorists storming your property, a 30 rd mag can come in handy. The Lib's need to quit giving the conservatives a reason to own high-capacity weapons. Feral hogs are a huge problem in my state and many landowners depend on high capacity/rate of fire AR's to control them.

Some strange arguments made here. All firearms were originally weapons of war. This includes smooth-barrel shotguns.

Don't give in to the gun-grabbers. If they succeed in banning ARs, you know they will come after other firearms next. My hunting rifles will probably be deemed "sniper rifles."

Bobster, this may be the only time, but I agree with you here.

I'm still laughing about Jeffs idea.
Besides just getting them made.
The gov is going to swap out millions of mags, for a multitude of rifles for 6 rounders. IN THREE MONTHS TIME!

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I'm still laughing about Jeffs idea.
Besides just getting them made.
The gov is going to swap out millions of mags, for a multitude of rifles for 6 rounders. IN THREE MONTHS TIME!

jefffive seems to be cool with someone killing 6 (or 7 if +1) though --

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds

But he's not exactly a rule of law guy ... more of a rule of sarge guy - whatever he wants should be law --

I agree, the matches aren't the problem; it's the boy throwing the lit matches into the dry grass that should be addressed.

I've owned exactly three "Assault Rifles", a stamped sheet metal HK91 knock off that was a huge piece of crap so I got rid of it, a Colt AR IN 7.62X39 that I quickly got bored with and got rid of, and now a custom AR in 6.8 spc.

The spc is neat, and I'm developing loads for it with some TSX's. But it seems no matter how convoluted I make things and contort myself, the AR platform is still a short action with limited capabilities.

The extended magazines are purported to make up for cartridge lacking capabilities.
Shooting a bear or moose 12 or 24 times with a less than sufficient cartridge seems un sportsmanlike and wasteful.

As a hunting or target rifle, I don't see how my AR has any advantage over bolt action rifles. Apparently using AR's on feral hogs ain't that effective, the population is growing, not shrinking. As a personal defense weapon, I also don't see how an AR has an advantage over a handgun. Pistols can be carried, concealed and easily produced for usage. I think most of us agree anymore that most firearms need to be locked up and locked away from curious ten year olds, their neighborhood friends, older siblings and cousins, local burglars. If my AR is locked in the safe, I'm sitting in my chair and am surprised by a perpetrator, it doesn't seem much use.

I like my AR 6.8, I guess for now I'll keep it and will reload for it, but I think my 6.5 Swede, 400 H&H and .45 ACP are a whole lot more useful.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
, I also don't see how an AR has an advantage over a handgun..

with humor

Hey Scott, imagine 10 alligators coming at you, from 200 yards, with 25 yards they are as fast as race horses, but at 50+ yards they are docile -- GATORS

yeah, it's crazy talk, but Scott's afeard of gators .. wait a minute, spellcheck didn't try to correct afeard -- is that really a word?
goodness, it's really a word
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/afeard

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds and provide a 1-to-1 swap for existing magazines.

After a three-month transition there would be a simple penalty for possession of an excluded magazine: permanent loss of the right to own or possess firearms.

Jeff...and you seriously envision lines of American AR-15 magazine owners lining up to turn in their 30 round mags to get a 6 round mag in return?

Truly?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds and provide a 1-to-1 swap for existing magazines.

After a three-month transition there would be a simple penalty for possession of an excluded magazine: permanent loss of the right to own or possess firearms.

Jeff...and you seriously envision lines of American AR-15 magazine owners lining up to turn in their 30 round mags to get a 6 round mag in return?

Truly?

Of course he does. Being an idiot, it’s not surprising…..

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

But they are outstanding choices for wiping out sounders of pigs and for shooting them out helicopters. They also outstanding personal defense weapons when you have to live rurally along our southern border where these days you have the possibility of encountering cartel.

I am not giving up mine.

I'm sure some dead pigs in Texas will be a great comfort to the families of the dead in Maine.

No more comfort than that for the family of the man in Las Vegas who was run over on his bicycle by two teenagers who smirked about it in court.

We should aspire to better citizens, not accommodating the lowest common denominator among us. Exile nitwits, who abuse our rights.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Come on, one can justify these multiple deaths because they want, not have to have, an AR-15 to shters oot with.
My local range has changed from a place of hunters and sportsmen to a nuthouse with fat-assed, warrior wannabes rapid blasting man targets.

To me, it's an academic argument. There are tens of millions in circulation. Some studies indicate 1 in 20 Americans own one.

What are you going to do? Ask people nicely to turn them in? Have local law enforcement come to people's houses and confiscate? None of that is ever going to happen. Can't unring a bell.

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds and provide a 1-to-1 swap for existing magazines.

After a three-month transition there would be a simple penalty for possession of an excluded magazine: permanent loss of the right to own or possess firearms.

Jeff...and you seriously envision lines of American AR-15 magazine owners lining up to turn in their 30 round mags to get a 6 round mag in return?

Truly?

I envision law-abiding citizens obeying the Law.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
, I also don't see how an AR has an advantage over a handgun..

with humor

Hey Scott, imagine 10 alligators coming at you, from 200 yards, with 25 yards they are as fast as race horses, but at 50+ yards they are docile -- GATORS

yeah, it's crazy talk, but Scott's afeard of gators .. wait a minute, spellcheck didn't try to correct afeard -- is that really a word?
goodness, it's really a word
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/afeard

I'm not sure I remember right, but I think my 95 Chilean Mauser holds five down, one in.

Neat rifle, mild and accurate with the 160g bullets. Shoot six gators, I don't care where, dig around in my pockets, come up with six more shells, kill six more charging gators. Repeat.

I bought one of those lh Ruger 10/22's and have several suppressors for it.
I would consider it my patriotic duty to spotlight gators and shoot for the eyes glowing back at me.
AR not needed.

In other circumstances I'd be happy to run backwards while emptying my .45 magazine into a charging gator or several.

After toying with a series 180 mini14, as well as an m1 garand, I gave up on autoloader center fires.i consider the AR-15 to be the second ugliest rifle ever built. One day at the lgs, I shouldered an AR. Wow, that ugly carbine felt just right. Impulse purchase, and it followed me home. Nothing special, just a dpms lite 16(I think it was). With no modifications, it would shoot 52 gr bergers over imr4895 into 1/2 moa.
That led me on a quest to build a bench rest AR-15. I didn't succeed, but was able to build a 6.5 grendel upper with a bca upper and a bartlein barrel that would shoot in the .2s when I was having a good day.
Anyway, I learned that they are incredibly easy to accurize and not limited to the spray and pray crowd. While I don't hunt anymore, I'd have no problem with using them for hunting.

Ultimately, what politicians say does not matter. Unless the majority flips, the current S. Ct., holding from Heller to Bruen is this:

The possession of arms in common use for legal purposes including but not limited to self-defense is a Fundamental Right. Now, that is not absolute, but Ben’s and de da to band will not be tolerated.

Why do you think the Industry started marketing ARs so heavy after Heller.

The S. Ct., in McDonald expressly states Handguns were arms in common use for the legal purpose of self defense. The industry went about making the AR an arm in common use.

A S. Ct., majority is going to have to overturn Heller and its lineage to ban ARs.

Hence, my suggestion to place them as NFA items .

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I'm still laughing about Jeffs idea.
Besides just getting them made.
The gov is going to swap out millions of mags, for a multitude of rifles for 6 rounders. IN THREE MONTHS TIME!

jefffive seems to be cool with someone killing 6 (or 7 if +1) though --

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Pass a Law limiting magazine capacity for all centerfire detachable magazines to 6 rounds

But he's not exactly a rule of law guy ... more of a rule of sarge guy - whatever he wants should be law --

No, dumbass, I'm trying to come up with the least-restrictive way to cut down on the mass killings that are going to get your toys taken away, which is what I would do given the Magic Wand.

There's not a single need for the damned things in civilian hands, all the fantasies about fighting a government with Predator drones and F-35s are just that, fantasies. It has been painfully proven that the general public cannot responsibly own and store them. I'd get rid of them tomorrow if I could.

People killed people for a long time before the self-loader with detachable magazine came along but rarely as casually and randomly in large numbers like we see on an almost daily basis. People have mental health issues everywhere but what they don't have is easy access to a killing machine like an AR and a few mags. We're not the only Country with crazy people or disgruntled ex-employees or random misfits but we are the only Country where schoolchildren have to have active shooter drills in their fucking classrooms so a small segment of the population can feel slightly less bad about their tiny penises.

There are few, if any, on this board who have sent more .223 rounds downrange than I have, for a year-and-a-half I got the opportunity to "expend" all the M-16 ammo the line companies of a Mechanized Infantry Battalion didn't want to have to count and recount to turn in; it wasn't at all unusual for them to hand me 400 loaded magazines to burn off, keeping three or four M16s in rotation to cool down. I know how much fun it is, which is what the vaunted hog hunters are after. They aren't solving the feral hog problem and don't want to, it would end their fun. But ask yourself how much fun the pathologists cleaning up after a school shooting are having when they have to use DNA to identify the torn-up bodies of third graders. Is the fun of the hog hunters really worth that?

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
In the aftermath of the Maine massacre, I listened to these lying politicians tell the press that these weapons are needed to shoot hogs, raccoons and pests.

Bull shit.

Shotguns were constructed to hunt birds.

Lever actions, bolt actions and limited capacity semi-automatics were created to hunt big and small game.

AR-15’s were created to hunt man.

If I remember the history of firearms right, smooth-bores, lever actions, bolt actions, and limited capacity semi-automatics were all developed for war.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I would like to see some effort put into studying where these people are coming from and what we can do to limit their impact on law abiding lives. The fundamental problem will always be the actor not the inanimate object. If their were zero guns in the US the day before this happen. We still had this hate bomb wanting desperately to kill a lot of people. Does anyone believe, the gun caused the hate? Who couldn’t kill a couple dozen people at one go without firearms? It would be unfortunately easy. Why did he even want to think about doing it? That is the ultimate question.

So we outlaw guns then they use cars or poisons or homemade bombs or fire, and on and on until like England we end up outlawing knives. Then and only then will we look at the causation and not the tool.


The politically expedient answer is to do something that looks decisive rather then effective. I get that.

Yep!

.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some strange arguments made here. All firearms were originally weapons of war. This includes smooth-barrel shotguns.

Don't give in to the gun-grabbers. If they succeed in banning ARs, you know they will come after other firearms next. My hunting rifles will probably be deemed "sniper rifles."

Another good post.


.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some strange arguments made here. All firearms were originally weapons of war. This includes smooth-barrel shotguns.

Don't give in to the gun-grabbers. If they succeed in banning ARs, you know they will come after other firearms next. My hunting rifles will probably be deemed "sniper rifles."

Another good post.

+1
Never give an inch.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jefffive:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Schrodinger:


Jeff...and you seriously envision lines of American AR-15 magazine owners lining up to turn in their 30 round mags to get a 6 round mag in return?

Truly?

I envision law-abiding citizens obeying the Law.

So, you readily admit that it would have zero effect on the criminal.
So far, that's the exact result of every gun law passed in this country.

I just read an article about Oregon Fish & Game paying up to $10 for every Pikeminnow caught.
Some guy made over $100K fishing them this year!

Now, if I owned an AR, I think I'd be quite happy to sell it to the govt for say, $10K. I think most would.
20mil assault rifles at $10K a piece is $200B which is just three and a half year's worth of US foreign aid we tax payers are on the hook for.
The Feds have the money, they just don't want to fix the problem - just like the hog hunters don't really want the hogs eradicated.
What would the Dems do if they actually won their battle against assault weapons?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
..But he's not exactly a rule of law guy ... more of a rule of sarge guy - whatever he wants should be law --

.. toys taken away, which is what I would do given the Magic Wand.
,,, I'd get rid of them tomorrow if I could.

Gun grabber much?

Reading Jeffs post about how many 5.56 ( not .223) rounds he fired made me remember.
We tried to see if the GE six-pack, micro gun had any practical use in fast moving ops like ours. Being the muscle, I was the one to run courses with the 27# gun. But, I also got to put ammo through it like no tomorrow.
Great fun, but no practical use, and 10# heavier than a SAW.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Reading Jeffs post about how many 5.56 ( not .223) rounds he fired made me remember.
We tried to see if the GE six-pack, micro gun had any practical use in fast moving ops like ours. Being the muscle, I was the one to run courses with the 27# gun. But, I also got to put ammo through it like no tomorrow.
Great fun, but no practical use, and 10# heavier than a SAW.

Since this was in the way-back I also got the call every time they ran a M60 range, it was just such a pain to turn in ammo if the seal had been broken on the can that they were thrilled to be able to get it "expended" instead. A sealed can was no problem but anything else had to be hand-counted, paperwork filled out then recounted at the Ammo Supply Point and if the numbers didn't match you start over. They'd send a detail to the range early in the morning to get set up, load magazines, etc. and naturally had to prep for every soldier in the company knowing there would be at least a couple dozen that didn't show up for one reason or another. I was a hillbilly kid with a room full of guns and a Jeep and not much to do when we were in garrison so I was nearly always available.

Didn't get to play with my M2s very often because mine were on ground mounts and all the ranges the line companies did were for M113s.

It would be much more informative if you adjusted for population differences.