I keep seeing headlines about "unelected officials" making decisions. So I researched, how many unelected government officials have significant decision making authority and the current number is over 90,000.

In the current government structure for approximately the last 20 years. The typical number of GS-15s and SESs (Senior Executive Services which is higher than a GS-15) has been over 80,000 all of which have significant decision making authority and none of which are elected.

You all have fun with that.

Who voted for Elon Musk?

At least those officials are subject-matter experts with years of experience and clear ethics standards, none of which Musk has/is.

Fifi
Who voted for a sole in USAID, treasury,i nspectors general, or, your favorite, the faa.

So, bib or no when you are frothing at the mouth and sky screaming? Did you dye your hair green or blue?

What velocity and density would a fact need to enter your mind?

Making decisions is one thing - the lady in the post office decides how much your parcel will cost to ship.

Deciding and imposing federal policy from the oval office is another matter entirely - especially after personally giving Trump $250 millions, and garnering a $1 billion dollar federal contract for space vehicles while simultaneously cutting NASAs budget.

89,999 make decisions, while the 90,000th one - a South African illegal alien - buys the power to make decisions for the nation.

But hey, if you’re happy with that, that’s cool.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Making decisions is one thing - the lady in the post office decides how much your parcel will cost to ship.

Deciding and imposing federal policy from the oval office is another matter entirely - especially after personally giving Trump $250 millions, and garnering a $1 billion dollar federal contract for space vehicles while simultaneously cutting NASAs budget.

89,999 make decisions, while the 90,000th one - a South African illegal alien - buys the power to make decisions for the nation.

But hey, if you’re happy with that, that’s cool.

the fan supporters are too blind to even think ... MAGA at any cost even if it is wrong ...

You guys all secretly love Trump
He is doing exactly what needs to be done and people are always bit mad when you tell them the truth

That is a delusional thing to say.

You think Ukraine should be betrayed like Trump wants to do?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Fifi
Who voted for a sole in USAID, treasury,i nspectors general, or, your favorite, the faa.

So, bib or no when you are frothing at the mouth and sky screaming? Did you dye your hair green or blue?

What velocity and density would a fact need to enter your mind?

Would you want elected folks in the FAA? I’d rather have people who have some knowledge and expertise in aviation. Preferably people who have been experienced in the lower levels so they understand the issues and function of the organisation.

The last thing I’d want is someone with any sort of political association screwing about with an organisation which should be completely apolitical.

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
You guys all secretly love Trump
He is doing exactly what needs to be done and people are always bit mad when you tell them the truth

Yes.

Like one lives a whore!

What's really funny is my OP takes no side. It identifies a fact.

But it clearly identifies that a "protest" that is being made by certain group (many of who are Democrats) about the threat of "unelected officials" is just silly because we have had 90,000 unelected officials with significant decision making authority every day of our lives and while the number wasn't 90,000 in 1789 this structure has been in place since the beginning of the republic.

The responses above are pretty hilarious.

Let's look at some of them.

Jefffive -

quote:

At least those officials are subject-matter experts with years of experience and clear ethics standards, none of which Musk has/is.

Clear ethics and standards? and just how have you made the determination that any material number of the current 90000 plus GS-15s and SES (btw - these are not appointees) have clear ethics and standards and are qualified to called subject matter expert? I sure hope it's not just because they have their job because that is non-substantive answer to the question.

FYI, the actual qualifications to be a cabinet secretary are generally zero some require citizenship. Getting confirmed by the Senate is not a qualification it is a process.

Here are some interesting facts - Xavier Becerra qualified to run HHS? - no experience as healthcare manager/executive. . How about Deb Haaland the previous Interior Secretary? - no experience qualifications related to managing 450+ million acres of public land. Oh I almost forgot Mayor Pete Secretary of Transportation - experience related to Transportation equals zero. Eight years as a Naval Reserve Intelligence Officer up to the rank of Lieutenant and Mayor of a college town of 100,000 people does not pass any reasonable standard.

Tumbleweed - GS-15s & SES aren't at the level of Postal Clerks. GS-15 & SES are the equivalent of full colonels and generals to use a military analogy.

BTW - Musk became a citizen in 2002.

Also, Musk isn't making any decisions - he performs analysis, identifies concerns, and makes recommendations and has access to decision makers in this the case President and cabinet secretaries. That is exactly what over 4,000 special interests groups or persons do every day thru over 12,000 registered lobbyists. A high end lobbyists charges $750/hr. Guess what they are paying for - to get decisions made in their favor.

And another form of buying power to make decisions...shall we discuss Hunter? His painting was absolutely worth $500,000 (btw-that scheme is brilliant, I give them credit). BTW, the courts have long held that the value of a bribe doesn't have to go directly to the government official it can go to a family member.

While were on the subject of buying influence. You might want to read the FBI declassified confidential human source report where the Burisma executive talks about having to pay two Bidens $5 million a piece.

Here it is: https://www.grassley.senate.go...grassley_-_biden.pdf

But if you are concerned about Elon identifying government waste and making recommendations to eliminate it, you have every right to express your concern as I am a staunch supporter of free speech.

BTW - Free speech is really only meaningful when "someone you don't like, says something you don't like." Speaking of an ethical standards that is a quote from Elon Musk.

Roland - you know when people switch the argument to another topic it's a classic sign that they know they have no hope of winning the current one.

Peace and love to all of you and thanks for the entertainment, I was wide awake at midnight and could sleep.

Talk about changing the subject--what does Hunter's painting have to do with the OP?

You go all over the place in that screed, but I guess your original point is that there are too many unelected officials making decisions on behalf of the government.

Our elected officials can't possibly make all the required decisions. They must delegate decision-making power--in most instances, as authorized and required by Congress.

I'm not going to quibble with your number or defend it. But American society has become much more complicated, our population has grown, and we need a larger government than we did in 1789.

My biggest concern is that Trump is going to replace those he's firing with a bunch of toady political supporters. That's not the way things are supposed to work in our republic.

I think you’ve got it backwards. In the last administration (and for a long time) there were thousands of toady, political sycophants who wasted billions of dollars on bizarre programs of social engineering. I think the wish of those who voted for Trump was to stop the waste, the woke and bring spending into control. That’s how the Republic is supposed to work and not by lifetime free passes on accountability.

That's a lie of a comparison. Biden didn't fire thousands of people because they were hired or appointed by Trump in his first administration.

Show me evidence the hirings under the Biden administration were political, outside cabinet and usual appointee positions.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Who voted for Elon Musk?

At least those officials are subject-matter experts with years of experience and clear ethics standards, none of which Musk has/is.

The man points out how obtuse your logic is and and your retort serves only to prove it. Only on the ARPF.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Making decisions is one thing - the lady in the post office decides how much your parcel will cost to ship.

Deciding and imposing federal policy from the oval office is another matter entirely - especially after personally giving Trump $250 millions, and garnering a $1 billion dollar federal contract for space vehicles while simultaneously cutting NASAs budget.

89,999 make decisions, while the 90,000th one - a South African illegal alien - buys the power to make decisions for the nation.

But hey, if you’re happy with that, that’s cool.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Making decisions is one thing - the lady in the post office decides how much your parcel will cost to ship.

Deciding and imposing federal policy from the oval office is another matter entirely - especially after personally giving Trump $250 millions, and garnering a $1 billion dollar federal contract for space vehicles while simultaneously cutting NASAs budget.

89,999 make decisions, while the 90,000th one - a South African illegal alien - buys the power to make decisions for the nation.

But hey, if you’re happy with that, that’s cool.

the fan supporters are too blind to even think ... MAGA at any cost even if it is wrong ...

And the Canucks, ruled by a true communist pussy, chime in with meaningless posts because their feelings got hurt by the mean ole Trump.

quote:

Also, Musk isn't making any decisions - he performs analysis, identifies concerns, and makes recommendations and has access to decision makers in this the case President and cabinet secretaries. That is exactly what over 4,000 special interests groups or persons do every day thru over 12,000 registered lobbyists. A high end lobbyists charges $750/hr. Guess what they are paying for - to get decisions made in their favor.

Oh no! You are using logic and facts on lefties!!!

That makes their hair catch fire!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
That's a lie of a comparison. Biden didn't fire thousands of people because they were hired or appointed by Trump in his first administration.

Show me evidence the hirings under the Biden administration were political, outside cabinet and usual appointee positions.

Hmmm...
Let's see... how many people have been fired using "probationary period"

Everyone of them was reported in the jobs numbers

For political reasons


Oh, but jobama did fire thousands... well, his handlers did

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I keep seeing headlines about "unelected officials" making decisions. So I researched, how many unelected government officials have significant decision making authority and the current number is over 90,000.

In the current government structure for approximately the last 20 years. The typical number of GS-15s and SESs (Senior Executive Services which is higher than a GS-15) has been over 80,000 all of which have significant decision making authority and none of which are elected.

You all have fun with that.

Sorry, it's not analagous. Nobody at GS-15 level is deciding to eliminate the Department of Education or fire 6,000 Department of the Treasury employees.

As for the statement that Musk isn't making the decisions, all evidence is to the contrary. It's his people going in to the workplace, it looked like him in the Oval Office the other day holding forth while trump sat meekly at his desk.

He's the de facto POTUS for now and if you can't recognize that, you're not paying attention.

Have fun with that.

Roland said

quote:

posted 20 February 2025 13:56 Hide Post
Talk about changing the subject--what does Hunter's painting have to do with the OP?

You should focus on logical connectivity and reading comprehension. I did not change the subject at all. My response regarding Hunter was in direct response to Tumbleweed's comment about buying influence.

This may be hard grasp for you but it looks pretty stupid when an OP brings up the simple fact of we have 90000 unelected officials so essentially complaining about unelected officials making decisions is pretty silly. Then Person A brings up but this particular unelected official (Elon who is not mention in the OP) bought influence with the President. The OP responds directly to Person A regarding Hunter who is another example of an unelected official buying influence.

You bring up Ukraine and I say "your changing the subject" and your response is "but you changed the subject when you responded to Person A who introduced that new subject of buying influence." You got to provide better entertainment this really to easy to keep me intrigued.

Mike Mitchell - this has nothing to do with any particular decision being it has to do with unelected officials and that if anybody wants to complain about Elon Musk come up with a better argument they should pick a better argument.

But here are some things you may wish to ponder.

The precursor to the Department of Education was the Dept of Health, Education and Welfare in the 1950s. then separated out in 1979. You might want to look at what was taught in middle and high school prior to 1950 vs what was taught in 2000. Spoiler alert very "dumbed down" Besides Trump is talking about transferring to the States. So tell me what do you think is better Washington DC control or control closer to the students.

From 2000 to 2024 the funding for the Department of Education went from $49.8 Billion to $238 Billion in 2024 Billion. Staffing fell from 4920 to 4245 for the same period. Here is the chart of test scores for that timeframe. Test scores increased by ~6% for reading and ~10% for math while expenditures increased 475%. Gee, that worked out well.

6000 Treasury employees. Those 6000 Treasury employees are in the IRS. They have not been fired yet. Now consider why we need all those IRS employees because we have tax code that even people with Master's degree in Accounting with Tax Specialty have difficult figuring out. Additionally, the IRS admits that information it publishes in its own FAQs and the instructions it provides on it forms and publications are not authoritative and legally binding on the IRS. Perhaps that is because they are a bloated mismanaged organization.

Regarding Musk is the de-facto President. Do you really want go there given the mentally impaired President we just had where we haven't know who was actually running the country during at minimum 2023 and 2024.

Really this is way too dull to even bother responding to them anymore.

In the words of the brilliant economist Thomas Sowell: "It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."

Peace and love to all of you.

Just outstanding Mike D!!!!!!


.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
That is a delusional thing to say.

You think Ukraine should be betrayed like Trump wants to do?

Honestly, Ukraine can figure things out on their own

quote:

And the Canucks, ruled by a true communist pussy, chime in with meaningless posts because their feelings got hurt by the mean ole Trump.

I doubt if you’d know a communist if one jumped up and bit you where your balls used to be.

Oh, and by the way - henceforth, your ranch, land and infrastructure will be mine. You can remain on it of course, and work on it, but all profits and resources contained therein will be mine to do with as I wish.

I’m sure you won’t fight or defend it because I have the god given right to claim whatever I want, so stop complaining and hand over the title.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I keep seeing headlines about "unelected officials" making decisions. So I researched, how many unelected government officials have significant decision making authority and the current number is over 90,000.

In the current government structure for approximately the last 20 years. The typical number of GS-15s and SESs (Senior Executive Services which is higher than a GS-15) has been over 80,000 all of which have significant decision making authority and none of which are elected.

You all have fun with that.

I see from your subsequent posts that you came for a protracted and multi-faceted argument beyond the premise of the OP.

So, you researched and found 0ver 90,000 hired government officials having significant decision-making authority.

Hummm.

"Significant" might be subjective. There may be more than 90,000 if the bar for significant was lower than GS-15. We don't know for sure how far delegation trickles down.

OTOH, it appears that Trump wants the only significant decision hired government officials to make is how to better serve him and his agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
What's really funny is my OP takes no side. It identifies a fact.

But it clearly identifies that a "protest" that is being made by certain group (many of who are Democrats) about the threat of "unelected officials" is just silly because we have had 90,000 unelected officials with significant decision making authority every day of our lives and while the number wasn't 90,000 in 1789 this structure has been in place since the beginning of the republic.

Are you claiming your research proves the Deep State, but the threat hype is a fallacy because "this structure has been in place since the beginning of the republic"? If so, I don't see much to argue about there. IMO, the ideas/conclusions are not mutually contradictory.

OTOH, the notion that the functioning "Deep State" is a threat to the republic is Double-Think.

In reality they are assets serving the country.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

And the Canucks, ruled by a true communist pussy, chime in with meaningless posts because their feelings got hurt by the mean ole Trump.

I doubt if you’d know a communist if one jumped up and bit you where your balls used to be.

Oh, and by the way - henceforth, your ranch, land and infrastructure will be mine. You can remain on it of course, and work on it, but all profits and resources contained therein will be mine to do with as I wish.

I’m sure you won’t fight or defend it because I have the god given right to claim whatever I want, so stop complaining and hand over the title.

No one has mentioned taking any property from you. Your property rights and freedoms in general would be greater as the 51st. I can’t imagine living in a country of vast wilderness and having some commie pussy like Trudeau tell me I couldn’t carry a handgun if I wanted — especially on my own damn land.

Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

I like this thread.

Reading the posts, knowing some of them are from real conservatives is encouraging.

I like the meme above.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

they are still not get it that we will not welcome them ....

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

So you could be free maybe??? The fact that y’all live in a country that dictates that you can’t even own pistol must suck. I see it makes you spiteful. Why do y’all put up such bullshit? Are you and MedVed communist pussies like Trudeau?

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

they are still not get it that we will not welcome them ....

I know a helluva lot more Canadians than you 2 living in America and reaping her benefits. None of them sing your tune.

I am a loyal, patriotic American citizen and voter. But I refuse to support most of what the nation's president--he's not my president--says and does.

My sympathies are with Canada on what Trump proposes. I feel no need to defend a sociopath who's an international embarrassment to the US.

Ledvm can babble all he wants about people abroad he claims support Trump, but it's telling that so far no non-US member of this board has supported Trump.

. . . more of Lane’s mysterious supporters. I think he has a mouse in his pocket. He also got better grades in handwriting in kindergarten than folks in Canada.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

So you could be free maybe??? The fact that y’all live in a country that dictates that you can’t even own pistol must suck. I see it makes you spiteful. Why do y’all put up such bullshit? Are you and MedVed communist pussies like Trudeau?

Hard to imagine isn't it?????

So much for rugged individualism north of the border......

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I am a loyal, patriotic American citizen and voter. But I refuse to support most of what the nation's president--he's not my president--says and does.

My sympathies are with Canada on what Trump proposes. I feel no need to defend a sociopath who's an international embarrassment to the US.

Ledvm can babble all he wants about people abroad he claims support Trump, but it's telling that so far no non-US member of this board has supported Trump.

You need cheap nannies and lawn maintenance? Or is it the price of avocados and corona that's bothering you???

Sometime check on how many Canadian reining horse trainers live in Cooke, Grayson, and Denton counties of Texas and Love, Carter, Gavin, McClain, Cleveland, and Oklahoma Counties of Oklahoma.

You might be amazed. They live here because the economy in USA is a 1000X of Canada and they can make a good living here and can’t in Canada.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

they are still not get it that we will not welcome them ....

I know a helluva lot more Canadians than you 2 living in America and reaping her benefits. None of them sing your tune.

great for them and cant wait for more coming from your country to see how it will goes ...

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Sometime check on how many Canadian reining horse trainers live in Cooke, Grayson, and Denton counties of Texas and Love, Carter, Gavin, McClain, Cleveland, and Oklahoma Counties of Oklahoma.

You might be amazed. They live here because the economy in USA is a 1000X of Canada and they can make a good living here and can’t in Canada.

Those "Snow Mexicans" know where their bread is buttered!

They can avoid Justine here!

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
Why would I want to be part of the most meddlesome and duplicitous nation on earth?

We value ethics and decency up here, we don’t need any Trump Stink on us. Why don’t you go and napalm some Vietnamese children, or preg test a mule, something more in line with your natural skills.

So you could be free maybe??? The fact that y’all live in a country that dictates that you can’t even own pistol must suck. I see it makes you spiteful. Why do y’all put up such bullshit? Are you and MedVed communist pussies like Trudeau?

Hard to imagine isn't it?????

So much for rugged individualism north of the border......

lol communist and pussy so easy behind the keyboard cannot wait when your supreme leader will do something against your will and who will be the communist pussy because i can guarantee it will not end with us and it will not end well ...

quote:

They can avoid Justine here!

Damn true!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

They can avoid Justine here!

Damn true!

when justin will be gone you will find something to get us ... lol you and your maga supporters cannot get it that we are not interested in your take over ...