RetreatNow, President Trump is again encouraging Putin to invade Eastern/Central Europe, NATO Allies. President Trump setting the board for more agrees on and possible global war.

Tell me again Dr. Easter how President Yrump deters Putin?

I support the YS involvement and leadership of NATO.

I have no problem calling President Trump’s position, and your support there of positions of fools.


Any suggestion that allies will not defend each other undermines all of our security, including that of the U.S., and puts American and European soldiers at increased risk. I expect that regardless of who wins the presidential election the U.S. will remain a strong and committed NATO Ally.”
Leaders in Germany and Poland also swiftly criticized Trump’s comments, illustrating how closely top officials are monitoring the U.S. presidential campaign and its implications for a world that is already on edge.
The unusual and immediate responses came after Trump, speaking at a campaign rally in South Carolina on Saturday, said he would encourage Russia to attack NATO countries that don’t pay enough into the alliance.
Trump, invoking a scenario in which a country not paying more were to be attacked by Russia, said, “No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”

Emulating the mobsters he admires, Trump wants to turn the U.S. into a protection racket and MAGAts are fine with that.

Not only a seditionist, but now openly advocating a position that undermines the international security of the United States.

Defies belief that any thinking, patriotic American could support this ass-clown.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Not only a seditionist, but now openly advocating a position that undermines the international security of the United States.

Defies belief that any thinking, patriotic American could support this ass-clown.

"But tax cuts!"

2 simple questions for the simple minded liberals who struggle:

1) Did Putin advance on Ukraine under 0bama & Biden?

2) Did Putin do ANYTHING untoward militarily while Trump was POTUS?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
2 simple questions for the simple minded liberals who struggle:

1) Did Putin advance on Ukraine under 0bama & Biden?

2) Did Putin do ANYTHING untoward militarily while Trump was POTUS?

Your ability to completely miss the point is quite impressive.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
2 simple questions for the simple minded liberals who struggle:

1) Did Putin advance on Ukraine under 0bama & Biden?

2) Did Putin do ANYTHING untoward militarily while Trump was POTUS?

Are you not listening to what your candidate, the detestable man you say you'll support and campaign for, is saying? Trumpies never pay attention to what he SAYS he wants to do.

Either that, or they're idiots who swallow it whole and want to do the same thing.

https://understandingwar.org/b...and-how-war-must-end

WEAKNESS IS LETHAL: WHY PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE AND HOW THE WAR MUST END
Oct 1, 2023 - ISW Press

https://www.independent.co.uk/...-trump-b2032764.html

John Bolton said Putin put off invading Ukraine while Trump ‘did a lot of his work for him’
‘To Putin’s mind...a weaker Nato is a stronger Russia’

Thursday 10 March 2022

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-m...aine-trump-rcna19045

March 7, 2022

Bolton sheds light on why Putin didn’t invade Ukraine under Trump
As Bolton sees it, Putin saw an American president moving in a direction Moscow liked, and the Russian leader was waiting for Trump to finish the job.

Donald Trump was apparently feeling a bit defensive after his praise for Vladimir Putin created some political troubles for him. It led him to release a ridiculous written statement in which he suggested he was responsible for rescuing NATO.

This is, as we discussed soon after, utterly bonkers: The only thing threatening NATO’s existence was Trump himself, who not only repeatedly disparaged the alliance, but who, on several occasions, expressed an interest in abandoning NATO altogether. By all accounts, it was a plan he intended to follow through on in a second term.

It is clear that President Trump wants to abandon NATO at the behest of Putin.

President Trump is a threat to the post WWII order, the generation Dr. Easter pretends to support died for.

President Trump threatened to withdraw from NATO multiple times.

https://apple.news/AP0vw9ctWQI2VwV2oaYQhxg

Policy I do not support.

Someone remind me again what benefits NATO offers when we pay so much more money than other members?

NATO countries need to be able to take care of themselves and not just waiting for us if shit goes down
They have been relying on US for far too long and now is the time to pay the piper and spend some of their own money to modernize their own military capabilities
I think it’s good Trump said that so they have a bit of fear of god in their soul for a spell

Actions speak louder than words. Once again…there was no Russian aggression under Trump. There was under 0bama and Biden.

The USA has footed the bulk of the bill at NATO for FAR too long. The European countries like Germany need to be meeting 100% of their commitment on schedule ALL of the time. Getting them too by fear is not a bad thing.

Yes, I want us to be allies with Europe and remain a strong contributor to NATO but I want to make damn sure the countries most exposed show up at the pay-window with bells on.

Sometimes there are no answers sufficient to persuade or make a difference.

Take the example of the snake in the garden of Eden allegory, and the meanings. Could the snake have been persuaded with reason to do other than what it did? Could that story have turned out differently?

Likewise, re the three posts above, answers have been provided, yet they made no difference. The persistent preconceptions are incorrigible.

First thing - there are reasons alliances among nations are a good thing.

Second - Putin sees NATO as not a good thing regarding his worldview, and most definitely wants it impotent.

Trump is doing/helping Putin's goals in at least two ways - undermining NATO and the stability of the US from the inside.

How much is it worth to defeat Putin's worldview? Some things are incalculable.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...d6413fe0028551&ei=84

Republicans blast Trump over threat to abandon NATO allies
Story by By Richard Cowan • 10h

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
2 simple questions for the simple minded liberals who struggle:

1) Did Putin advance on Ukraine under 0bama & Biden?

2) Did Putin do ANYTHING untoward militarily while Trump was POTUS?

Your ability to completely miss the point is quite impressive.

I think Doc made the point extremely well!

Elect a weak idiot like Biden and the world is much less safe!

NATO nations need to meet their requirements!

Putin would be deterred by a strong leader who might react directly.

I do get that the Donald opened his pie hole and said some stupid stuff.

The NATO nations do need to step up, but that’s more a matter of some members than the whole.

Poland, Finland, the rest of the eastern nations of NATO are living up to it.

Germany? Not so much. Lots of the more western nations have been and remain complacent.

I don’t think Trump understands squat about military alliances. While Republican policies tend to be better, and I suspect Biden is a known weak reed to both Russia and China (his son being an example to them that its business like they are used to- payola under the table- even if Joe wasn’t involved it appears to most that it was corruption as that’s how dictatorships operate…

Trump is showing how he would be bad… his mouth and policy are not necessarily connected.

RFK jr is looking better as an option now. Not that he’s good, but better than the cow poop/dog poop choice the GOP/democrats are offering.

quote:

RFK jr is looking better as an option now. Not that he’s good, but better

When his own immediate family comes out against him and implores Americans not to vote for him, I think people better pay attention. I’m pretty sure they’d know him better than the public at large - the man is pretty clearly unhinged.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Actions speak louder than words. Once again…there was no Russian aggression under Trump. There was under 0bama and Biden.

The USA has footed the bulk of the bill at NATO for FAR too long. The European countries like Germany need to be meeting 100% of their commitment on schedule ALL of the time. Getting them too by fear is not a bad thing.

Yes, I want us to be allies with Europe and remain a strong contributor to NATO but I want to make damn sure the countries most exposed show up at the pay-window with bells on.

Russia was supporting the war in Syria and arming/funding and training separatists in Ukraine through the Trump years.

I fully agree with you that NATO states need to get their thumbs out of their arses and increase their own military funding to 2% of GDP. The states that are most exposed are the ex Russian republics next to Russia and they are almost universally meeting their obligations.

Trumps comments were nothing but pre election grandstanding, at a 5 year old level.

Words show intent and create action. Action by those listening.

quote:

“No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”

That is real rich from someone who is notorious about declaring bankruptcy and not paying his bills.

That is not how NATO works any way.

NATO does not sliding scale charge member nation pro rate dependent upon U.S. spending.
There is no bill for the U.S. to collect on.

The 2 percent mark is not mandatory by NATO’s terms.

He may well be, but the rest of the Kennedy family post JFK is no prize. They are essentially aristocratic democrats. What they are worried about is that RFK jr doesn’t toe the democrat line. He might end the Kennedy brand as being democrat royalty.

My point is only that he’s better than Biden or Trump, not that he’s (to use Trump’s preferred choice of words) some sort of stable genius.

I’d really prefer a better GOP candidate, but unless something happens, it’s Trump for the GOP. Ditto for Biden and the democrats.

You going to keep supporting Trudeau?

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

RFK jr is looking better as an option now. Not that he’s good, but better

When his own immediate family comes out against him and implores Americans not to vote for him, I think people better pay attention. I’m pretty sure they’d know him better than the public at large - the man is pretty clearly unhinged.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
That is not how NATO works any way.

NATO does not sliding scale charge member nation pro rate dependent upon U.S. spending.
There is no bill for the U.S. to collect on.

The 2 percent mark is not mandatory by NATO’s terms.

If we are the tail wagging the dog, we can probably get some serious changes made.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Sometimes there are no answers sufficient to persuade or make a difference.

Take the example of the snake in the garden of Eden allegory, and the meanings. Could the snake have been persuaded with reason to do other than what it did? Could that story have turned out differently?

Likewise, re the three posts above, answers have been provided, yet they made no difference. The persistent preconceptions are incorrigible.

First thing - there are reasons alliances among nations are a good thing.

Second - Putin sees NATO as not a good thing regarding his worldview, and most definitely wants it impotent.

Trump is doing/helping Putin's goals in at least two ways - undermining NATO and the stability of the US from the inside.

How much is it worth to defeat Putin's worldview? Some things are incalculable.

The Democratic Party’s worldview is not much better. The worth of defeating that is incalculable as well.

Here are President Trump’s actions concerning key alliances. I can and have crossed referenced this on here before.

By that point, six months into his administration, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson had grown alarmed by gaping holes in Trump’s knowledge of history, especially the key alliances forged following World War II. Trump had dismissed allies as worthless, cozied up to authoritarian regimes in Russia and elsewhere, and advocated withdrawing troops from strategic outposts and active theaters alike.

Those three gentlemen including the active generals in the top. Do not know what they are talking about, I guess?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/0...tillerson/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com...f4554af6d_story.html

Here is some action.

Trump had not been authorized to share with Russia the information gathered through that arrangement, the Post reported, risking the country's relationship with a key ally in the fight against ISIS.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/a...hington-post-reports

The Democratic World View maintains US strategic alliances, geo stability, and weakening of Totalitarianism. President Trump’s world view destroys all of that.

Looks like you, President Trump, and the Stupid Caucus have another big-partisan aid package to blunt Russia, China, and Iran’s puppet Hamas to defeat.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...dc344290adb28e&ei=43

Senate Passes $95.3 Billion Ukraine, Israel Aid Package
Story by Siobhan Hughes • 2h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c344290adb28e&ei=115

Russia historians say the Tucker Carlson interview solidified one thing about Putin — he's off the rails
Story by Erin Snodgrass,Kelsey Vlamis • 14h

https://youtu.be/dPkxf9M9QwU?s...vph4zPKz9_720G&t=488

I started this video at 8:08 to include only the part about Carlson's interview with Putin and about Trump's recent comment about NATO

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c344290adb28e&ei=118

Senator Romney Gives Ominous Warning To Fellow Republicans

Republican Senator Mitt Romney has warned colleagues that they cannot let Russia have its way with Europe. Romney told Republicans that "if your position is being cheered by Vladimir Putin, it's time to reconsider your position."

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c344290adb28e&ei=118

Senator Romney Gives Ominous Warning To Fellow Republicans

Republican Senator Mitt Romney has warned colleagues that they cannot let Russia have its way with Europe. Romney told Republicans that "if your position is being cheered by Vladimir Putin, it's time to reconsider your position."

i am fairly certain that whatever Ukraine leaves is going to be fairly weak, unequipped, and could be beaten off a battlefield by a 2A school's Airforce JROTC Corps of Cadets-- other than the nukes, of course

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...552916bc9f635&ei=245

Russia can keep bleeding tanks and other equipment like it has been in Ukraine for at least another 2 to 3 more years, war analysts say

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...552916bc9f635&ei=169

Russia is now in a better position for attacking elsewhere in Europe, defense official says

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...552916bc9f635&ei=110

"You gotta pay your bills" - that's rich coming from Trump

Putin is cashing in on his ‘enormous’ investment in Trump, says Hayes

Chris Hayes: Think about the incentives Putin had in 2016 and the lengths he went to to help get Trump elected. Now think about the stakes for Putin in 2024 as his war drags on and he desperately wants to end it with a Russian victory.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...552916bc9f635&ei=116

Donald Trump ‘would throw our allies to Putin’: Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia

Ambassador Michal McFaul, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, Molly Jong Fast, Special Correspondent for Vanity Fair, and Eddie Glaude, Princeton University Professor join Alicia Menendez in for Nicolle Wallace on Deadline White House to discuss what a future President Trump’s foreign policy could look like, neglecting our allies in the likes of which we haven’t seen since before World War II.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...552916bc9f635&ei=263

Congress acted to protect NATO. But it might not be enough to stop Trump
Story by Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN • 15h

https://youtube.com/shorts/vCE...?si=LUSgSvNSYLVCHM9P

Trump really said he would 'encourage' Russia to go after U.S. ally

OK, say Trump is correct, that all NATO countries should pay up and have the capability. Just say that was true.

Why would Trump encourage Russia to invade them? Why not just say, “We won’t defend non-paying NATO countries?”

Of course, there is no way to prove it, but I would bet 100k that Trump can’t even name all of the NATO countries.

Bolton talks about how ill informed and stupid Trump is. All of you whack-jobs, were Bolton wannabe “nob polishers” until he told the press what he really thinks of Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
That is not how NATO works any way.

NATO does not sliding scale charge member nation pro rate dependent upon U.S. spending.
There is no bill for the U.S. to collect on.

The 2 percent mark is not mandatory by NATO’s terms.

of the roughly 1.5 TRILLION budget-

the USA contributes roughly 900+ BILLION

(essentially 2/3’s)


who would consider that equitable in any form or fashion

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...pqK?ocid=socialshare

NATO Map Shows GDP Defense Spending by Country
Story by David Brennan • 3d

But for all the outrage, the divisive former president has some grounds for criticism. The majority of NATO nations—19, by the alliance's own count in July 2023—are still failing to spend 2 percent of GDP on their militaries, despite having agreed the target at the 2014 Wales summit.


https://wapo.st/42EdPcu

Most of the countries that spent beyond the 2 percent mark either share a border with Russia or sit near the front lines of the Ukraine war. Trump’s insinuation that they’re not paying their share is false.

Poland — which shares part of its northern border with the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad and a long stretch of its southeastern border with Ukraine — spent a greater share of its GDP on defense last year than any other member state, at 3.9 percent.

The United States ranked second, at 3.49 percent. But in raw numbers, the $860 billion U.S. defense budget is more than double that of all other NATO allies combined.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...pqK?ocid=socialshare

NATO Map Shows GDP Defense Spending by Country
Story by David Brennan • 3d

But for all the outrage, the divisive former president has some grounds for criticism. The majority of NATO nations—19, by the alliance's own count in July 2023—are still failing to spend 2 percent of GDP on their militaries, despite having agreed the target at the 2014 Wales summit.

It's a "target", not an obligation.

It's not an unreasonable amount, considering the threat, but neither NATO nor the United States is a "pay up or else" protection racket.

quote:

but neither NATO nor the United States is a "pay up or else" protection racket.

It would be under Trump. That's the one point.

The main point is that Trump would make up shit to justify getting out of NATO or cause chaos.

I don’t think you are wrong re Trump. Heck I’m not sure of the status of all the ex combloc nations. But it certainly is easy to find out if needed.

I find it humorous that the lefties all the sudden consider Bolton a reliable and reasonable source as soon as he starts attacking Trump… given he sat at the right hand of satan as far as they were concerned until then.

Yes, I tend to believe Bolton re Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Of course, there is no way to prove it, but I would bet 100k that Trump can’t even name all of the NATO countries.

Bolton talks about how ill informed and stupid Trump is. All of you whack-jobs, were Bolton wannabe “nob polishers” until he told the press what he really thinks of Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

I find it humorous that the lefties all the sudden consider Bolton a reliable and reasonable source as soon as he starts attacking Trump…

Yes, I tend to believe Bolton re Trump.

At one time there were people who thought that Trump could be controlled, perhaps steered in the right direction - McConnel, Bolton, Mattis, Kelly, Barr and several others. They weren't what Trump would call loyalists, a good thing, as it turns out.

It won't be that way next time.

The fact that Trump can't be controlled, won't follow the rules, lies, is why he has gained so much in the polls, and it's also why he scares the left.

quote:

1) Did Putin advance on Ukraine under 0bama & Biden?

2) Did Putin do ANYTHING untoward militarily while Trump was POTUS?

Nothing?



.