https://www.aol.com/news/text-...scope-003813081.html

So just who tried to steal an election?

From the article:

Chesebro told Troupis in late 2020 that it was “really not necessary” to link the GOP electors to ongoing litigation. “Having the electors send in alternate slates of votes on Dec. 14 can pay huge dividends even if there is no litigation pending on Jan. 6,” Chesebro said in an email.

Congress could seat the pro-Trump electors “even if Trump lost all the legal cases, and none are still pending,” Chesebro wrote in the email to Troupis on December 8, 2020.

===========================================

Also, Trump wanted the DOJ to say there were appearances of fraud so his friends in congress could handle it.

=============================================

This is why SCOTUS dumping it back on congress is such a big deal, if not a mistake.

We know how everything in congress is hyper-partizan. There is no such thing as bi-partisan justice from congress. "Justice", from congress is as contrary to the principles of the rule of law as it can get.

===============================================

Also:

https://youtu.be/hg6UxwFph_k?si=Y52KEuJqYgRUKw-C

‘It is unimaginable to me the former president will be tried before November,’ says Judge Luttig

Judge Michael Luttig and Tim Heaphy react to the news that the Supreme Court will hear the Donald Trump’s Presidential Immunity case, setting into motion a long drawn out process which plays into the former President’s hand of delaying any of his criminal prosecutions going to trial before the 2024 Election.

===============================================

Also:

https://youtu.be/CrWeBs2Z1Uk?si=vkOUeo4-N9MObjIy

GLOVES OFF: Jamie Raskin takes ACTION against Trump amid stunning court ruling

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
https://www.aol.com/news/text-...scope-003813081.html

So just who tried to steal an election?

Good lord. No, trump's not an insurrectionist at all.

I am starting to wonder just how many folks are getting indicted by Jack Smith.

The justices of the Supreme Court tend to base their decisions on the constitutional merits-or lack thereof-within a legal issue or question.
Disenfranchising a portion of a state's electorate is a worthwhile issue.

"Acta non Verba".

Now a two-part question I have not seen accurately answered by our MSM media or any other venue: What was the REAL REASON as to why Obama initially opened our borders to illicit entry by foreign nationals? Then Mr. Biden continued this policy by fiat or executive order?
Could this not be termed "insurrection" to the stability of a republic, by violating its national sovereignty before nations of the world?

Were or were not some or all of the state cases lodged against Mr. Trump based politically
on shreds of biased substandard judicial "evidence"-or just sham politics?

Acta Non Verba

President Obama opening borders is a conclusionary statement,

I remember President Obama being hackled as deporter in chief. He started the policy of separation of families, and I remember migrates returning across the border.

I am going to need more than a conclusion that President Obama opened borders.

And no the cases against President Trump are not political. They are all based on his behavior and all due process rights are being extended.

Four: Orbis Business Intelligence ($382K)

WINNING

quote:

And no the cases against President Trump are not political. They are all based on his behavior and all due process rights are being extended.

And in federal cases the DOJ has a 99.6% conviction rate. They line their ducks up pretty damn straight.

Depending on your point of view, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were insurrectionists. I prefer to think of them as patriots.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Depending on your point of view, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were insurrectionists. I prefer to think of them as patriots.

People always want to forget that part David.

I sorry did George Washington permit a violent mob to storm the Capitol w the intent of keeping him in power.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams election set the stage for a peaceful transition of power that could have destroyed the Union, yes Union, in its infancy.

We know what Washington would have done bc he marched out twice to put down insurrection.

Finally, one does not get to revolt against due and legal election with the justification being the loss of the defeated president and be called a patriot.

Colloquially, we call this people traitors.

However, I am glad to see Lavaca and Dr. Eater admit the attack on the Constitution that was Jan 6 was an act to defy constitutional process. Thus, maintaining President Trump in power. I am glad to see they both admit that their warped since of party allows them to see Jan 6 actors as patriots in comparing Jan 6 actors to George Washington.

Glad, that the truth comes from their own months.

He will walk it back. I remember Dr. Easter unequivocally calling Jan 6 his “friends and neighbors. I also remember him wanting to hear the entire GA Sex of State phone call, then refusing to listen when made public through a due House investigation.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I sorry did George Washington permit a violent mob to storm the....

for roughly 8 years, the british (legitimate government at the time) would have called him a Rebel for "LEADING violent mobs"

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I sorry did George Washington permit a violent mob to storm the....

for roughly 8 years, the british (legitimate government at the time) would have called him a Rebel for "LEADING violent mobs"

Sorry context matters. You suggesting that the situation in the United today is the same as being ruled by a foreign monarchy on the other side of the ocean? What foreign country is ruling us at the moment?

Nope, - just showing that the winners write the history

but we weren't ruled by a foreign monarchy (let's not take on the question of if the german's were the "real" kings") we were ruled by OUR monarch -

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I sorry did George Washington permit a violent mob to storm the....

for roughly 8 years, the british (legitimate government at the time) would have called him a Rebel for "LEADING violent mobs"

Exactly! Joshua only recalls the part of history that suits him. Washington and his officers would have likely been hung for treason had the British prevailed.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Nope, - just showing that the winners write the history

but we weren't ruled by a foreign monarchy (let's not take on the question of if the german's were the "real" kings") we were ruled by OUR monarch -

Exactly again.

quote:

I remember Dr. Easter unequivocally calling Jan 6 his “friends and neighbors.

6K people were on the mall lawn on J6…peacefully expressing their opinions.

Yep…they did look like my friends and neighbors — my fellow Americans! Are they your fellow Americans Joshua?

Idiots like the buff headdress fellow and the ones who fought with police or defaced public property should be prosecuted…no doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I sorry did George Washington permit a violent mob to storm the....

for roughly 8 years, the british (legitimate government at the time) would have called him a Rebel for "LEADING violent mobs"

Exactly! Joshua only recalls the part of history that suits him. Washington and his officers would have likely been hung for treason had the British prevailed.

Except, you have two problems: 1) You assume the Federal Government created by the Founders is corrupt and needs replacing by violence bc you lost under the rules of our Constitution. That we all say we love. 2) You cannot point to any violation of the Social Contract that is our Constitution that justifies Jan 6. Now, if you embraces and accepts the lies of the election as presented by President Trump. Thankfully, our Founders created an independent judiciary to test such claims, and the judiciary so did.

One only gets to rebel when the Constitution is broken. In Jan 6, only the Right at President Trump’s behest was engaged in breaking the Constitution.

Jan 6 people and those who make apologies for them are not patriots. They are traitors.


Finally, I am glad not to be included among such friends and neighbors.


Again, we know how President Washington dealt w those like Jan 6. He mobilized on them.

We know how John Adams and Jefferson deserve elections. They accepted the results with grace and used the power of their position to ensure a peaceful transition of power.

I have no problem condemning John Brown for taking into his own hands, violently, what was left to our constitutional system to resolve. Too bad the South decided they did not have to play by those constitutional rules.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Depending on your point of view, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were insurrectionists. I prefer to think of them as patriots.

People always want to forget that part David.

We forget the part where you compare trump to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?

And, since when is it patriotic to try to undermine the result of a general election through lies and fraud?

Good lord. You people really are delusional.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Depending on your point of view, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were insurrectionists. I prefer to think of them as patriots.

People always want to forget that part David.

We forget the part where you compare trump to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?

And, since when is it patriotic to try to undermine the result of a general election through lies and fraud?

Good lord. You people really are delusional.

As Citizens of the United States, of the General Government, of the Federal Government, we do my owe loyalty to a wing of a party or a president of a party. We owe loyalty to the Constitution.

Loyalty that President Trump, Jan 6 mob, and all of you who make excuses and mitigate it have betrayed.

There is no doubt in my mind that had President Obama and the Left engaged in the behavior President Trump and the Right engaged in to deny President Trump the presidency, the people using the word patriot to describe President Trump and those that were moved by him to violence would be speaking of Second Amendment remedies.

You do not get to co-op, steal, rationalize the Greek Fire that is rebellion simply because your side lost a due election. The emphasis is on the word due.

If you want to see how an adult deals with a close election, much closer than Biden v Trump, go read and look at VO Al Gore’s response. I have posted it before.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...35d85cf496ef0c&ei=99

The Normalization of Trump’s Alleged Crimes
Story by Zak Cheney-Rice • 11h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...5d85cf496ef0c&ei=175

Trump's RNC takeover and Orban meeting are a frightening glimpse into the GOP's future
Story by Ja'han Jones • 2d • 2

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...5d85cf496ef0c&ei=202

RNC Hands the Keys Over to Trump and His Handpicked Squad of Election Deniers
Story by Josh Fiallo • 2d •

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:


Except, you have two problems: 1) You assume the Federal Government created by the Founders is corrupt and needs replacing by violence bc you lost under the rules of our Constitution. That we all say we love. 2) You cannot point to any violation of the Social Contract that is our Constitution that justifies Jan 6.

Joshua
these are YOUR assumptions to have the conversation, as I doubt you've had a conversation with Lane where he laid these points out - I could be wrong, but i doubt it -- Did you talk with Lane and establish these, firmly and mutually,

or is this how you envision his though process?

Those are not assumptions. They are what they have stated underpins their righteous rebellion argument that Jan 6 actors are patriots for engaging in violence against our Federal, General Government.

Otherwise, I invite the right ours rebellion, Jan 6 violence are patriots group to explain what part of the Constitution was being violated by transferring power to President Biden.

Dr. Easter has stayed despite every court to the contrary that certain states allowed election laws to be changed against some unstated law. The best example of this is Pennsylvania where the State Supreme Court rejects this argument.

Dr. Easter and Lavaca by grouping Jan 6 and President Trump with the American Revolution Actors has implied that such violence was appropriate to some type of incorrectable government violation of fundamental rights as citizens by transferring power to President Biden.

Of course, we have many on here you keep stating that the election is false, implying FBI plants started to violence, or thst the Jan 6 actors were harmless to our transition of power under the Constitution.

There is a reason I keep saying a due election. The use of violence to counter a due election under our Constitution, relevant state, and federal laws is not justifiable act of patriotism.

Colloquially, we call such actions treason.

We have three historical examples directly on point what a president would do when the legitimate action of Congress is faced with rebellion.

President Washington mobilized against the Whisky Rebellion and Shay’s Rebellion.

When the South tried to defy the election of President Lincoln, President Lincoln would mobilize.

When a cami for Office believed he had a legitimate challenge to the presidential count. He exhausted his court remedies. When those were not in his favor, he graciously led the nation to a peaceful transition of power. See Al Gore. This was done in the true example of Jefferson and Adams who after a bitter, first contested election used their positions to ensure a peaceful transition of power.

Jan 6 actors, President Trump, and all those who mitigate, and most repugnantly tie Jan 6 and President Trump to the likes of President Washington are disgraceful.

For the reasons stated above, there is no anchoring Jan 6 and President Trump post election to the American Revolutionary movement. One can argue about the legitimacy of pro-revolution claims. However, they did not take action into their own hands. The colonies through a process voted to leave the Empire. They did so citing fundamental violations of their rights under the English Constitution made up of English Common Law.
Therefore, when the election is due pursuant to our legal system and the Constitution one cannot equate Jan 6 actors nor President Trump with righteous, patriotic rebellion. Unless, one rejects the election was due.

https://youtu.be/ptOMINt9kNw?si=6rrTjvM9KDgW1jwQ

Appeasement

Trump did not instigate January 6. Some of his devout followers did that. Some got out of hand, but not tot he extent of the BLM folks and none of the higher ups in that organization were ever prosecuted. Trump can't be blamed for what happened on January 6. Period. But we have an Administration that will not defend the country's borders or fulfill their Constitutional obligation to do so. So LHeym and his cronies should at least wake up and smell the coffee. The country is at a Constitutional crisis, the Biden Administration is incompetent, George Soros is trying to undermine democracy, and Donald Trump, whether you agree with him or not, wants what is best for this country. He is a patriot. If he was not, why would he persist in resisting all of the totally politically motivated prosecutions against him?

quote:

He is a patriot. If he was not, why would he persist in resisting all of the totally politically motivated prosecutions against him?

Uh, because he doesn't want to go to prison, maybe?

Trump has proved he's no patriot. You're silly to think otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Trump did not instigate January 6. Some of his devout followers did that. Some got out of hand, but not tot he extent of the BLM folks and none of the higher ups in that organization were ever prosecuted. Trump can't be blamed for what happened on January 6. Period. But we have an Administration that will not defend the country's borders or fulfill their Constitutional obligation to do so. So LHeym and his cronies should at least wake up and smell the coffee. The country is at a Constitutional crisis, the Biden Administration is incompetent, George Soros is trying to undermine democracy, and Donald Trump, whether you agree with him or not, wants what is best for this country. He is a patriot. If he was not, why would he persist in resisting all of the totally politically motivated prosecutions against him?

No sir. That is an objective lie.

President Trump also had the power and responsibility to break the mob. He did nothing.

Every time President Trump spoke out that the election was stolen, fraudulent he laid the ground work.

When he told the crowd the Pence “would do the right thing,” he stoked the fire.

The man committed the ultimate political sin. He refused to honor the results of a due election to keep power he had no right to. That inspired the violence of Jan 6.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
He is a patriot.

I'm sorry, such statements just make you look silly.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The country is at a Constitutional crisis, and Donald Trump, whether you agree with him or not, wants what is best for this country. He is a patriot. If he was not, why would he persist in resisting all of the totally politically motivated prosecutions against him?

That post is very interesting in that it probably says what most if not all his supporters would say.

"endeavor to persevere" https://youtu.be/hRX6hSGeZs4?si=622nui6Xz3r-D1CV

Attaboy - your buy-in to the narrative says everything about this: "I am your voice, I am your warrior, I am your justice, I am your retribution."

The words that Trump left out when he said the above quote are "I am your Consequences".

Consequences

https://youtu.be/_RmEFF5wl6Q?si=SocCTmrjc9SEFx2E

Also:

https://youtu.be/vyZURhOngJA?si=rLnw2Go27L3-9Xd7
"Always Remember: they are coming after ME, because I am fighting for YOU"

and

https://youtu.be/vmt6Nh6SIYY?si=oR-FnIP9tJFMsxPK
'If you go after me, I’m coming after you'

This is indicative of what Trump will do to everything within his reach, given the power of Office again:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...5771580b5917bf&ei=31

RNC ‘Bloodbath’ Begins as More Than 60 Staffers Are Terminated Days After Lara Trump Elected Co-Chair
Story by Michael Luciano • 14h •

And:

“My first acts as your next President will be to Close the Border, DRILL, BABY, DRILL, and Free the January 6 Hostages being wrongfully imprisoned!” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

There's this little thing called the First Amendment that is a problem to your arguments. I think the Democrats did shady things to steal the election. I don't have any real proof other than the fact that when I went to bed on election night everything was well in hand and when I woke up ballot boxes stuffed with Dem votes had miraculously showed up. I have a right to state my opinion that I don't trust Democrats; I have a right to say that in my opinion I think they cheated; I have a right to say that. Why doesn't Donald Trump have the same right?

That's all he did. Anyone who took it farther did so of their own volition. I might have done the same thing if I was younger, but the Dims are taking this country to hell in a hand basket and I'm too old to pick a fight. Donald Trump is not. But how is expressing one's opinion a crime? I've expressed my opinion. Is that a crime? I don't think so. How is Trump expressing his opinion a crime either?

The First Amendment has nothing to do with my responses to you.

Assuming it did, no right is absolute. That includes the First Amendment.

President Trump and your poor attempts cannot excuse his failure to his responsibility under the Constitution.

You brought President Washington into this either unknowing or forget how President Washington mobilized the a Militia to put down two acts of violence directed at the due actions of the Federal Government. President Trump had the same duty. You brought up Jefferson Ignoring the burden interested to all presidents and candidates for president to use their status to ensure a peaceful transition to the fully elected. You brought up patriot ignoring that President Trump owed us all at least Al Gore’s example.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
There's this little thing called the First Amendment that is a problem to your arguments. I think the Democrats did shady things to steal the election. I don't have any real proof other than the fact that when I went to bed on election night everything was well in hand and when I woke up ballot boxes stuffed with Dem votes had miraculously showed up. I have a right to state my opinion that I don't trust Democrats; I have a right to say that in my opinion I think they cheated; I have a right to say that. Why doesn't Donald Trump have the same right?

That's all he did. Anyone who took it farther did so of their own volition. I might have done the same thing if I was younger, but the Dims are taking this country to hell in a hand basket and I'm too old to pick a fight. Donald Trump is not. But how is expressing one's opinion a crime? I've expressed my opinion. Is that a crime? I don't think so. How is Trump expressing his opinion a crime either?

Your post puzzles me.

I'm under the impression that expressing the opinion that the President should be murdered is a crime.

I'm under the impression that the definition of Sedition includes expressing the opinion of promoting Sedition.

No?

You could publicly call for someone to murder the president legally?

https://www.merriam-webster.co...calism%2C%20sabotage

Remember "you can't yell fire!" in a theater?

The issue is not what criminality President Trump engaged in. The courts are equipped and competent to address that issue. President Trump is getting all due process rights. The appellate courts are capable to ensure that.

The issue is what was President Trump moral and political duty? We know the answer to this by historical and contemporary examples.

The fact Dr. Easter and Lavaca chose willful blindness to this due to party affliction is grotesque.

Again, if President Obama and a segment of the Left had done exactly what President Trump and the Jan 6 actors did, to deny the duly elected Republican the presidency, we would not be seeing the words patriot. We would be seeing words like 2nd Amendment remedies.

I never thought we would need to codify the Presidential Oath into criminal law.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Those are not assumptions. ....

Okay, opinions/stipulations -- but did you have the conversation with Lane to lay these out, or is this your concatenation of your views on his posts?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
There's this little thing called the First Amendment that is a problem to your arguments. I think the Democrats did shady things to steal the election. I don't have any real proof other than the fact that when I went to bed on election night everything was well in hand and when I woke up ballot boxes stuffed with Dem votes had miraculously showed up. I have a right to state my opinion that I don't trust Democrats; I have a right to say that in my opinion I think they cheated; I have a right to say that. Why doesn't Donald Trump have the same right?

That's all he did. Anyone who took it farther did so of their own volition. I might have done the same thing if I was younger, but the Dims are taking this country to hell in a hand basket and I'm too old to pick a fight. Donald Trump is not. But how is expressing one's opinion a crime? I've expressed my opinion. Is that a crime? I don't think so. How is Trump expressing his opinion a crime either?

You're not expressing an opinion. You're repeating a lie.

And, J6 doesn't happen without trump. For god's sake, you live in some fantasy land.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Those are not assumptions. ....

Okay, opinions/stipulations -- but did you have the conversation with Lane to lay these out, or is this your concatenation of your views on his posts?

See my response as to why those statements are facts.

There is a difference between failing to do his job, insurrection, and being a patriot.

Trump failed to uphold his office. He should have actively moved heaven and earth to stop the mob on 1/6 that tried to interfere with the transfer of power. His arguments that it was someone else’s job are meaningless, he should have done more.

His failure to do so makes him not a patriot in the greater sense of the word.

But until you can prove he was a participant in the events of 1/6, you can’t claim he’s an insurrectionist.

The argument that it doesn’t happen without Trump is equally made as it doesn’t happen without Biden.

These folks were upset that they didn’t get their way… adults behaving like 2year olds, only using adult ways and means.

I have said it before, and will say it again. This was not an insurrection because it never had a chance of succeeding. Were there some in that mob who were engaged in sedition? Yes. But the majority were just useful idiots and would undoubtedly have done differently given the chance to reflect on what they were doing. I’m sure Aschli Babbitt would.

The drumbeat of insurrection is purely political, and thanks to those on both sides we have entrenched both extremes and we are probably having the worst slate of candidates we have ever seen. Neither one is worth the ink that is going to be printed on the ballots.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
There is a difference between failing to do his job, insurrection, and being a patriot.

Trump failed to uphold his office. He should have actively moved heaven and earth to stop the mob on 1/6 that tried to interfere with the transfer of power. His arguments that it was someone else’s job are meaningless, he should have done more.

His failure to do so makes him not a patriot in the greater sense of the word.

But until you can prove he was a participant in the events of 1/6, you can’t claim he’s an insurrectionist.

The argument that it doesn’t happen without Trump is equally made as it doesn’t happen without Biden.

These folks were upset that they didn’t get their way… adults behaving like 2year olds, only using adult ways and means.

I have said it before, and will say it again. This was not an insurrection because it never had a chance of succeeding. Were there some in that mob who were engaged in sedition? Yes. But the majority were just useful idiots and would undoubtedly have done differently given the chance to reflect on what they were doing. I’m sure Aschli Babbitt would.

The drumbeat of insurrection is purely political, and thanks to those on both sides we have entrenched both extremes and we are probably having the worst slate of candidates we have ever seen. Neither one is worth the ink that is going to be printed on the ballots.

You act like he was down at Mar A Lago on J-6 having a Big Mac instead of standing in front of the Capital rioters/insurrectionists making a speech filled with bald-faced lies about the outcome of the election shortly before the Capital riot started. He incited that riot and if you can't see that, you're delusional. J6 does not happen without trump's lies about the election. He absolutely was the cause of it.

And, you'll need to explain to me how Biden bears equal (or any) responsibility for what happened. Other than beating trump in the election. Once again, the master of analogies rolls out a false analogy.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
There is a difference between failing to do his job, insurrection, and being a patriot.

Trump failed to uphold his office. He should have actively moved heaven and earth to stop the mob on 1/6 that tried to interfere with the transfer of power. His arguments that it was someone else’s job are meaningless, he should have done more.

His failure to do so makes him not a patriot in the greater sense of the word.

But until you can prove he was a participant in the events of 1/6, you can’t claim he’s an insurrectionist.

The argument that it doesn’t happen without Trump is equally made as it doesn’t happen without Biden.

These folks were upset that they didn’t get their way… adults behaving like 2year olds, only using adult ways and means.

I have said it before, and will say it again. This was not an insurrection because it never had a chance of succeeding. Were there some in that mob who were engaged in sedition? Yes. But the majority were just useful idiots and would undoubtedly have done differently given the chance to reflect on what they were doing. I’m sure Aschli Babbitt would.

The drumbeat of insurrection is purely political, and thanks to those on both sides we have entrenched both extremes and we are probably having the worst slate of candidates we have ever seen. Neither one is worth the ink that is going to be printed on the ballots.

And, by the way....the fact that an insurrection doesn't succeed or has no chance to succeed is irrelevant in defining an insurrection.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
in·sur·rec·tion
/ˌinsəˈrekSH(ə)n/
noun
a violent uprising against an authority or government.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Those are not assumptions. ....

Okay, opinions/stipulations -- but did you have the conversation with Lane to lay these out, or is this your concatenation of your views on his posts?

See my response as to why those statements are facts.

Why are you (not) dancing around the question? You are putting rather strong words into someone else's mouth, and I simply asked, did you get it from THEM --

You didn't -- you are taking your conclusions of behavior and trying to make it a statement of intent. You can't do this, unless, of course, you simply don't care for facts and want to have YOUR stipulations counted as fact --

reel it in a bit and re-assess

You really "went off" on your "statements" and didn't answer a VERY simple "yes or no" question .. i think ya'll refer to that as dodging