He keeps going on about how ‘tariffs will bring in trillions and trillions of dollars’.

Tariffs don’t ’bring in’ anything, they simply increase the cost of imported goods to domestic consumers. The only function of a tariff is to encourage the consumption of domestic product by making the imported product less affordable.

HOWEVER - if there is no domestic production of a product, or the infrastructure to produce it is nonexistent or inadequate to meet demand, the effect is inflationary and debt-inducing. A simple example might be, how much more will rebuilding after a hurricane cost if there’s a huge tariff on imported lumber? The cost of domestic lumber will simply increase in response to demand. That is called inflation. The borrowing necessary to buy that more expensive product is called debt. Who benefits? Weyerhaeuser and the money lenders. Who loses? The American consumer.

Trump repeatedly insists that tariffs somehow involve payments from the foreign exporters. His grasp of economics is seriously lacking.

For the love of God, give your brainwashed heads a shake before you vote for that guy.

weird - until 1913, the US revenue was like 95% tariffs and excise taxes .. and then the income tax ONLY hit the absolute highest earners

it's almost like some folks aren't versed in the history of the country --

strange

wonder what "on shoring" of jobs and manf will do ...

oh, remember when obama said "those jobs are gone and aren't coming back" .. then they came back?

What is a Tariff?

A tariff is a form of tax imposed on imported goods or services. Tariffs are a common element in international trade The primary reasons for imposing tariffs include (1) the reduction in the importation of goods and services by increasing their prices and (2) the protection of domestic producers.

Forms

Tariffs usually take one of two forms: specific or ad valorem. A specific tariff is one imposed on one unit of a good (e.g., $1,000 tariff on each imported car). An ad valorem tariff is a tariff levied as a certain percentage of a good’s value (e.g., 10% of the value of an imported car).

Make no mistake, the cost of a tariff comes out of the consumers pocket.

yep .. it raises the price of the goods - not 1% as nasty as inflation, as there is a CHOICE to purchase the goods -

until there is an alternative .. for example, steel - if a country substantially subsidizes the steel, where it can be sold cheaper than the domestic product, tariffs can level the playing field- which was the case in the 80s, for example

reducing regulation and increasing tariffs - say, why are there very few foundries still in the US? oh, yeah, over regulation and no protective tariffs ..

what happens when you switch the levers on those? .. oh, yeah, a level playing field. where the "cost" of slave labor is offset to a real wage -
frankly, this should be a point libbies are crazy for .. decrease the incentives to reduce slave labor, while providing a living wage to labor -

oh, wait, it's politics, which takes all common sense out of the equation

No, as he has stated dozens of times he thinks tariffs are paid by the exporting Country.

He understands grifting and the value of bullshitting with a straight face and little else.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, as he has stated dozens of times he thinks tariffs are paid by the exporting Country.

He understands grifting and the value of bullshitting with a straight face and little else.

That's because to import, the exporting company actually does have to pay it.. I get it, kleagle, as you've never operated anything as complex as a farm truck business. You have never done anything even remotely related to who pays the tariffs.. go ask Gladys to explain it to you

Man, “dump trump “ has come a long way… Even the rest of the TX Trumpiteers have been rendered speechless by the latest run of bullshit and lies.

Tariffs are generally paid by the importing company. In response the exporter might reduce the costs to offset the tariff or the importer might just pass on the costs to the consumer.

The effects are actually quite a complex thing to get to the bottom of but economists seem to conclude that they are not beneficial to a countries eco0nomy unless the reason is to protect a particular industry.

This gives a balanced take on it.

https://www.cato.org/publicati...acts-tariff-fictions

Canada just put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Too affordable for the common folk.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Man, “dump trump “ has come a long way… Even the rest of the TX Trumpiteers have been rendered speechless by the latest run of bullsh!t and lies.

As you have been asked repeatedly, show me ONE lie...

Jd can't understand reviewing facts and explaining where there is BS isn't support of the other side. Trump has enough huge gaping holes that there is no need for lies
Only persons grotesquely caught up in partisan politics demand utter compliance with "their" side, or the person is "the enemy" .. this behavior leads to tribalism and tyranny.. but you do you, boo, it looks "good" on you


So, jd, put up or shut up.. ONE lie, just one.. should be easy for the righteous.. or leftists, which ever your prefer

That MANY others are silent should be HINT, to even the clue-challenged, of nolo contendre.. you might fifi to share Gladys' phone number to help with what that means

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, as he has stated dozens of times he thinks tariffs are paid by the exporting Country.

He understands grifting and the value of bullshitting with a straight face and little else.

That's because to import, the exporting company actually does have to pay it.. I get it, kleagle, as you've never operated anything as complex as a farm truck business. You have never done anything even remotely related to who pays the tariffs.. go ask Gladys to explain it to you

Who writes the checks? Is it the Chinese company that exports, or the American company that imports?

Digikey charges me on their invoices for electronic parts.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, as he has stated dozens of times he thinks tariffs are paid by the exporting Country.

He understands grifting and the value of bullshitting with a straight face and little else.

That's because to import, the exporting company actually does have to pay it.. I get it, kleagle, as you've never operated anything as complex as a farm truck business. You have never done anything even remotely related to who pays the tariffs.. go ask Gladys to explain it to you

Who writes the checks? Is it the Chinese company that exports, or the American company that imports?

Digikey charges me on their invoices for electronic parts.

who knows - digikey is a US company, i've used them as a supplier for decades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiKey

ask them for the explanation, i aint their cfo

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Man, “dump trump “ has come a long way… Even the rest of the TX Trumpiteers have been rendered speechless by the latest run of bullsh!t and lies.

As you have been asked repeatedly, show me ONE lie...

Jd can't understand reviewing facts and explaining where there is BS isn't support of the other side. Trump has enough huge gaping holes that there is no need for lies
Only persons grotesquely caught up in partisan politics demand utter compliance with "their" side, or the person is "the enemy" .. this behavior leads to tribalism and tyranny.. but you do you, boo, it looks "good" on you


So, jd, put up or shut up.. ONE lie, just one.. should be easy for the righteous.. or leftists, which ever your prefer

That MANY others are silent should be HINT, to even the clue-challenged, of nolo contendre.. you might fifi to share Gladys' phone number to help with what that means

One lie? How about 13,000 illegal alien murderers loose in the US. Even if it was true, where did the number come from? Out of Trump’s ass? And who is Gigi, Gladys and keagle? At least use recognizable names so we can follow your wandering stream of consciousness bullshit. DUMP TRUMP, eh. My what a change of heart. From orange turd to orange Jesus in a short 4 months. You must be so proud….

Tariffs will only cause a trade war.

A whole lot of stuff sold in the US today is made in China. It seems ludicrous to deny that tariffs will raise prices.

Tariffs as Trump is describing them will destroy the economy and US jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Man, “dump trump “ has come a long way… Even the rest of the TX Trumpiteers have been rendered speechless by the latest run of bullsh!t and lies.

As you have been asked repeatedly, show me ONE lie...

Jd can't understand reviewing facts and explaining where there is BS isn't support of the other side. Trump has enough huge gaping holes that there is no need for lies
Only persons grotesquely caught up in partisan politics demand utter compliance with "their" side, or the person is "the enemy" .. this behavior leads to tribalism and tyranny.. but you do you, boo, it looks "good" on you


So, jd, put up or shut up.. ONE lie, just one.. should be easy for the righteous.. or leftists, which ever your prefer

That MANY others are silent should be HINT, to even the clue-challenged, of nolo contendre.. you might fifi to share Gladys' phone number to help with what that means

One lie? How about 13,000 illegal alien murderers loose in the US. Even if it was true, where did the number come from? Out of Trump’s ass? And who is Gigi, Gladys and keagle? At least use recognizable names so we can follow your wandering stream of consciousness bullsh!t. DUMP TRUMP, eh. My what a change of heart. From orange turd to orange Jesus in a short 4 months. You must be so proud….

So,
let's clear this up, okay?
I assume a letter from ICE, explaining that the have a "non-detained" section in their records, where people have past charges, but were released into the country anyway will be sufficient? Literally ICE explaining to congress the layout of their "inventory" - in a letter to Congress, on ICE letterhead, which unequivocally states that the juncture of the CONVICTED CRIMINAL/Non-Detained/Homicide states , let me check
13,099
Here is it, in an easily readable PDF, directly from ICE
https://homeland.house.gov/wp-...ve-Tony-Gonzales.pdf


so, be a man about it, let me know when you have READ the pdf, and are willing to admit it's facts previously unknown to you .. you don't even have to publicly admit your are wrong .. there you go, save some "face"

Non Detained by ICE does not mean non detained.


The way it works is they are convicted and retained in state’s custody.

When the state sentry is served, then they are given over to ICE custody for deportation.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Non Detained by ICE does not mean non detained.


The way it works is they are convicted and retained in state’s custody.

When the state sentry is served, then they are given over to ICE custody for deportation.

Joshua,
I respect you, and that this would NORMALLY be the case- however, i ask that you read the DOCUMENT as written - here's a couple points -


These are murders from OTHER COUNTRIES that are released BY ICE into our Country -
Not talking about persons who have been convicted in the US - shesh, why is this so hard

quote:

Your letter requests the number of noncitizens on ICE’s docket convicted or charged with
a crime. As of July 21, 2024, there were 662,566 noncitizens with criminal histories on ICE’s
national docket, which includes those detained by ICE, and on the agency’s non-detained docket.
Of those, 435,719 are convicted criminals, and 226,847 have pending criminal charges. Please
refer to the following chart.

but here's "the tell"

quote:

First, ICE is bound by statutory requirements not to release certain noncitizens
from ICE custody during the pendency of removal proceedings and notes that most noncitizens
who are convicted of homicide are typically not eligible for release from ICE custody under
§236(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Second and in limited circumstances when
236(c) does not apply, ICE officers may use their discretion in making custody determinations and release noncitizens with conditions.

quote:

Regarding the number of declined detainers since FY 2021, from October 1, 2020,
through July 22, 2024, ICE lifted1
24,796 detainers. Of those, 23,591 were declined by state and local law enforcement agencies ,

heck, i'll call you, will be easier to talk this through

As we are discussing, I see the distinction.

This 13,000 odd number are those convicted in their nation of origin that ICE identifies, makes contact with.

They are not new convictions for homicide committed in the U.S.

I see a jurisdiction issue with a state keeping theses people in custody for an indefinite period of time on a Fed misdemeanor (illegal entry). However, I agree the danger is foreseeable in these people being left in non-secured detention.

I have an answer, but non one will like it.

Pass a law that anyone who enters wo formal invention who has a conviction for homicide, rape, armed robbery, burglary, arson, sexual assault, or assault is guilty of a Class B felony with a sentence of 10-20 years federally. That must be prosecuted and serve 85 percent of those sentence then be deported.

That will give ICE enough to arrange deportation upon serving out.

Cost be damned. The first role of the Federal government is protection from foreign nationals.

The other option is to take away by legislation the discretion. However, the discretion exists bc we will not provide funds for dentition facilities pending deportation of those who have committed violent crime in country of origin pending deportation.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No, as he has stated dozens of times he thinks tariffs are paid by the exporting Country.

He understands grifting and the value of bullshitting with a straight face and little else.

That's because to import, the exporting company actually does have to pay it.. I get it, kleagle, as you've never operated anything as complex as a farm truck business. You have never done anything even remotely related to who pays the tariffs.. go ask Gladys to explain it to you

Who writes the checks? Is it the Chinese company that exports, or the American company that imports?

Digikey charges me on their invoices for electronic parts.

who knows - digikey is a US company, i've used them as a supplier for decades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiKey

ask them for the explanation, i aint their cfo

I have also used Digikey for decades, just wish they'd go back to publishing a paper catalog with pictures (but understand the economics of it).

Trump's nonsense notwithstanding, I paid the tariff in dollars and cents, it wasn't a Chinese guy paying in yuan.

Trump tariffs increased the price of Chinese folding knives by 30%, but did not increase American production of knives.

Case is still around, Kabar too. Ontario folded recently.

Understand tariffs are cat nip to the Federal Government. Before the income tax, tariffs were what funded the Federal Government (except for the Civil War bond period). And as the Federal Government is a revenue maximizing entity, you might have noticed Biden Democrats did not see fit to waive Trump's tariffs.

Tariff's are sold as virtuous to the stupid and incredulous, but all they really are, are revenue enhancements for the Federal Government.

Expect to see more.

It does not take a savant to realize what happens when the automotive industry gets hit a an 85 percent tariff.

Go read on your vehicle where that assembled in the U.S. parts come from.

I’ll give you a hint: Mexico and Canada.

Unless you want to pay 250k for a 1500.

Now it's just a "figure of speech"...

quote:

He also suggested his remarks are theoretical, harkening back to his remarks during the September debate with Harris on CNN that he has "concepts of a plan."

"I'm using 200 percent tariffs just as a figure of speech," he added. "Well I'll say 100, 200, I'll say 500. I don't care."

Link

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It does not take a savant to realize what happens when the automotive industry gets hit a an 85 percent tariff.

Go read on your vehicle where that assembled in the U.S. parts come from.

I’ll give you a hint: Mexico and Canada.

Unless you want to pay 250k for a 1500.

you are correct - if the Saltillo Rams suddenly cost 85% more than the warren plant rams, guess which one would sell more units?
and guess where the jobs would move from and then to ?

it's pretty simple

The issue is the cost will go past the current mark. People are already complaining about the cost of a truck. 75k-100k is what we are taking about now. 200k is not an insane number as a result this tariff scheme.

Now, if you want to break union contracts it might work.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It does not take a savant to realize what happens when the automotive industry gets hit a an 85 percent tariff.

Go read on your vehicle where that assembled in the U.S. parts come from.

I’ll give you a hint: Mexico and Canada.

Unless you want to pay 250k for a 1500.

you are correct - if the Saltillo Rams suddenly cost 85% more than the warren plant rams, guess which one would sell more units?
and guess where the jobs would move from and then to ?

it's pretty simple

If the cost of the trucks was not averaged down by the Mexican plant, how many would sell?

Yes TUMBLEWEED wasn't there a past US President who did the same in the 19th Century with British side-by-side shotguns? Resulting in the American side-by-side being of very poor design then dominating the America market for decades afterwards and stifling innovation coming in as British shotguns evolved such as decent reliable ejectors, self and assisted opening, single triggers, improved mechanisms and etc., etc..

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Yes TUMBLEWEED wasn't there a past US President who did the same in the 19th Century with British side-by-side shotguns? Resulting in the American side-by-side being of very poor design then dominating the America market for decades afterwards and stifling innovation coming in as British shotguns evolved such as decent reliable ejectors, self and assisted opening, single triggers, improved mechanisms and etc., etc..

like ITAR, which resulted in American companies missing out on overseas weapons development.

quote:

you are correct - if the Saltillo Rams suddenly cost 85% more than the warren plant rams, guess which one would sell more units?
and guess where the jobs would move from and then to ?

There wouldn't be any jobs to move, because nobody is buying.

https://youtube.com/shorts/bf3...?si=piDbWaOm9WRJ820g

Trump STILL Doesn't Understand How Tariffs Work

How about a tariff on fentanyl?
England did the prototype with the Opium War.
China's leaders absorbed the lesson.