????????

25 January 2025, 02:41

Aspen Hill Adventures

????????

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:

It was never that way in the United States, no matter how good a black man was at his job he was always less than any white man, although slightly better off than a black woman. An openly gay person was even further down the ladder regardless of how well they did their job. All "DEI" ever did was attempt to level the playing field so we had an actual meritocracy, where the "best for the job" applied instead of "the best white man for the job".

You must live in a very bad place. My workplace was very diverse with many of the minorities reaching high ranks throughout the years. Funny, everyone got a long just fine too.

25 January 2025, 03:13

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:

It was never that way in the United States, no matter how good a black man was at his job he was always less than any white man, although slightly better off than a black woman. An openly gay person was even further down the ladder regardless of how well they did their job. All "DEI" ever did was attempt to level the playing field so we had an actual meritocracy, where the "best for the job" applied instead of "the best white man for the job".

You must live in a very bad place. My workplace was very diverse with many of the minorities reaching high ranks throughout the years. Funny, everyone got a long just fine too.

fifi - this might be true in peckerwood county, but nah, man, that doesn't take place in the rest of the US and is intolerable in corporate america --

it's always so cute when you try to punch above your weight -- but, dang, man, the sin of "soft racism" --

you have so OBVILOUSLY had any real world experience ... amazing

25 January 2025, 03:28

medved

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
quote:
Originally posted by 4WD:
Ask MJines, Heym, Enima, Headuphisass, Jeffie, Bertram, SHankspony, Mike Michell, and the other WOKES on here. They love the transgender movement and want to be the leaders pushing the trans movement on the rest of us moving forward. Bunch of degenerates.

The trouble is, you have your head stuck so far up your own arse, that you don't have a clue what my thoughts are on that subject and you never paid any attention to anything but your own opinion.
As someone who has voted right my whole life though, I recognise you as an embarrassment too decent conservatives, and would much rather be lumped in with that group, given the choice of that or yourself.

remember that guy that called ME a libbie? wow, that was epic laughter

you ae always the liberal of someone ... that is also funny that liberal is not the same definition in europe and in north america ...

25 January 2025, 11:06

shankspony

A straight up....

M.E. Stop giggling like a schoolgirl..

A straight up simple question from the female presenter, that the Trans supporter can not answer. And her reply that "yes we can agree to disagree,, But its always women who have to get unchanged in front of men." That is I think why so many are sick of the whole trans issue.

https://x.com/addicted2newz/st.../1882876054542631343

25 January 2025, 11:09

Lamar

there's only 2 operations they can get no matter what they say they are.

25 January 2025, 21:37

shankspony

And a guest on Bill's Mahers show nails it, and also gives a clue as to why the Democrats might loose next time as well.
https://x.com/EricAbbenante/st.../1882996909889011785

25 January 2025, 23:17

Magine Enigam

quote:
A straight up.... M.E. Stop giggling like a schoolgirl..

Well, Shanks, maybe you don't know it, but I mostly agree with you, especially re the woman's POV in the post above (3rd).

If the guy had just agreed with her, discussion over. Most married men, long term, learn that lesson sooner than later.

That's why I'm twice divorced.

Anyway, the guy on Maher's show who said something like Trump is more "normal"...

BS.

All this fixation on gender identities, left and right is not healthy - normal. Just like WOKE fixation ain't normal. It's way down the rabbit hole. Look up, see the light.

Would Abe have ever thought that some future president would feel the need to declare binary gender is all there is re gender?

*************
“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.” George Orwell, 1984
https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

Degenerate 1:2
2 Then Trump said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay on your behalf."

Degenerate 1:3
3 "My Kingdom come, My will be done."

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

O.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr.

“When the rich rob the poor, it's called business ... When the poor fight back, it's called violence.” - Mark Twain

"Be careful. When a democracy is sick, fascism comes to its bedside, but it is not to inquire about its health." - Albert Camus

26 January 2025, 00:27

shankspony

Maybe more relatable is a better word.

Yep you can argue all day about his sincerity. For sure. But the dems are suffering from that as well Id suggest.

26 January 2025, 01:28

nute

quote:
Originally posted by sjr:
quote:
Originally posted by nute:
Live and let live. Amazing how many people object to others views being “forced” on them, but see no problem with doing just the same themselves

Yes for sure live and let live .
But why do we have a whole month of "Pride" shoved on our faces ?

Wouldn’t you just ignore it?

We have assorted carnivals here, Notting Hill probably the best known. Doesn’t interest me, I don’t go, but I don’t object to those that do enjoying themselves.

26 January 2025, 01:50

Bill Leeper

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
And here is your full blown donkey of the day.

Rock Hudson was a man and very masculine.

A gay man without any other qualifiers is a better human than M Shy.

I don’t think people care whether an individual is gay or not.

What has happened is they are made to be something special!

Like half men competing in women’s sports.

THAT is the problem!

The hundreds of millions being spent on tally pointless DEI!

What happened to the best person for the job??

Regardless of him or her being white, black, pink or yellow!

Or straight or gay??

It was never that way in the United States, no matter how good a black man was at his job he was always less than any white man, although slightly better off than a black woman. An openly gay person was even further down the ladder regardless of how well they did their job. All "DEI" ever did was attempt to level the playing field so we had an actual meritocracy, where the "best for the job" applied instead of "the best white man for the job".

Unless the job involved sexual performance, there would be no reason for orientation to even be of any consideration, unless the subject insisted it be so. Should a skier receive greater accolades because he is a gay skier? I submit that he should not; nor should he receive less. The truth is, sexual orientation should not even be a part of the conversation.
Now, in the case of gender identification, just because a man declares himself to be a woman, this should not mean he should suddenly have access to the girl's bathroom. This is not a condemnation of transgender men, it is a condemnation of men who may be lying about their orientation in order to gain access. Anyone who cannot see this potential problem, must be wearing blinders. Bill.

26 January 2025, 03:41

ledvm

quote:
It was never that way in the United States, no matter how good a black man was at his job he was always less than any white man, although slightly better off than a black woman. An openly gay person was even further down the ladder regardless of how well they did their job. All "DEI" ever did was attempt to level the playing field so we had an actual meritocracy, where the "best for the job" applied instead of "the best white man for the job.

Total F***ing BS for my lifetime.

26 January 2025, 06:07

lavaca

God made male and female. Psychosis made anything else.

26 January 2025, 08:26

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
God made male and female. Psychosis made anything else.

True story!

26 January 2025, 09:25

shankspony

No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

26 January 2025, 09:48

RolandtheHeadless

Shankspony, in America conservatives like to dumb things down so they all can understand the nonsense they tell each other.

26 January 2025, 09:51

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

And in Dillingham and anywhere else in Normal America your relative and any other like them are allowed to live as they want to live. The conflict arises when they insist they have the guts to force their feelings, beliefs, thoughts and dreams on others.

26 January 2025, 10:01

shankspony

Yep. that's my criticism too. That's not how she's been brought up.

26 January 2025, 10:12

RolandtheHeadless

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

And in Dillingham and anywhere else in Normal America your relative and any other like them are allowed to live as they want to live. The conflict arises when they insist they have the guts to force their feelings, beliefs, thoughts and dreams on others.

I must have missed this happening often enough to be a problem. Examples?

26 January 2025, 13:08

fulvio

Rewind to the 60s/70s.

When a boy manifested effeminate signals and girls leaned to being butch. doctors would attribute these tendencies to excess hormones and to correct the deficiency, effeminate boys would be given shots of male hormones and vice-versa.

26 January 2025, 13:17

RolandtheHeadless

What?! Medicine hasn't advanced from the 1960s-70s where you live?

My advice: move.

26 January 2025, 17:18

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

The above would describe my wife (loves to do everything I do outdoors and several of my cousins. Did EVERYTHING the boys did and none of the girly things. They were called “tomboys” back then. They are still female. They grew up to be mothers and wives who still like to do cowboy things, hunt, fish, farm, etc etc. There is zero abnormal with that.

26 January 2025, 17:20

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Shankspony, in America conservatives like to dumb things down so they all can understand the nonsense they tell each other.

No sir, but we do like to live in reality abide by natural laws.

26 January 2025, 17:21

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

And in Dillingham and anywhere else in Normal America your relative and any other like them are allowed to live as they want to live. The conflict arises when they insist they have the guts to force their feelings, beliefs, thoughts and dreams on others.

26 January 2025, 17:29

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
What?! Medicine hasn't advanced from the 1960s-70s where you live?

My advice: move.

Nah. Fulvio lives in a region that still lives in biological realism and recognizes natural law.

26 January 2025, 18:44

Magine Enigam

quote:
The conflict arises when they insist they have the guts to force their feelings, beliefs, thoughts and dreams on others.

Well, excuse me, all this time I thought that's what Rightists were doing regarding not only gender issues but so much more. I thought the term "culture wars" was a Rightist mission against something, perception perhaps.

In the context of Culture Wars, gender identity issues and WOKE surly seem threatening to Rightists. Of course, a POTUS exec order can fix all that. Do you "feel" less threatened now?

26 January 2025, 20:15

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
No I don't think so. I think it is way more complex than that.

There seems to be physiological explanations.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...o-sexual-orientation

I have a member of my family, who Ive watched grow up, and since a very young age she has not been interested in behaving or dressing like her biological sex. She's always gravitated towards male pastimes and behaviours. It hasn't been anything initiated, or her environment etc. It's just who she is.

But she has ben brought up knowing that she's in a certain body, To accept that, but that she can do whatever she wants too. And be supported in that.

The above would describe my wife (loves to do everything I do outdoors and several of my cousins. Did EVERYTHING the boys did and none of the girly things. They were called “tomboys” back then. They are still female. They grew up to be mothers and wives who still like to do cowboy things, hunt, fish, farm, etc etc. There is zero abnormal with that.

That's not what Im talking about. The link should have made that clear.

26 January 2025, 21:57

crbutler

Your link is trying to claim homosexuality is a physiologic difference.

Everyone else is talking about transgenderism.

Note that this was in a psychology journal and not in a neuroscience journal. I don't think that this is actually settled in mainstream medicine- probably because if you could "diagnose" it from brain scans, then there would be a lot of outliers and what do you do with them?

26 January 2025, 22:31

shankspony

Yep. The article I think, said that itself. And I think I was clear in not stating it as absolute or settled.

What im suggesting is there is enough information coming through now, to put aside absolutes of psychosis or mental health and be open too the fact that this, and by this I mean a range of sexual and gender identities, might actually be hardwired, for lack of a better term. Into individuals.
But here's a more specific one if you wish.
Trans brain differences

What do you do with them? You let them live and behave as they wish too. As long as it does not impact negatively on another section of society. Biological Men in womens changing rooms for example.

26 January 2025, 22:41

crbutler

And therein is the rub.

They want to be treated as whatever under the law. But to keep this free from potential abuses, you need to have a source of easy documentation that everyone can access that is accurate, such as a government ID. Your ID states your gender or sex. That is the bathroom you use and the classification of sports teams you play on.

Dress how you want, associate with who you desire, but you cannot complain when someone doesn't want to acknowledge your "reality" if it differs from your original plumbing. Elect to not associate with them if it bugs you that much, as long as it is not a governmental issue that you have to.

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep. The article I think, said that itself. And I think I was clear in not stating it as absolute or settled.

What im suggesting is there is enough information coming through now, to put aside absolutes of psychosis or mental health and be open too the fact that this, and by this I mean a range of sexual and gender identities, might actually be hardwired, for lack of a better term. Into individuals.
But here's a more specific one if you wish.
Trans brain differences

What do you do with them? You let them live and behave as they wish too. As long as it does not impact negatively on another section of society. Biological Men in womens changing rooms for example.

26 January 2025, 23:19

ledvm

The brain does not mature until people are around 25 years of age. Like other organs the maturation process has some effect on specific anatomic sizes and functionality. Environmental effects will affect the maturation process. Thus, are these changes cause or effect?

Secondly, some psychoses are also linked neuroanatomical peculiarities.

Thirdly, a study of these brain regions over time from young to adult would be more useful.

Fourthly, as Dr. B pointed out, this is a psychology journal, not a psychiatric journal or neuroscience journal. Psychology programs and journals historically have been rife with outrageous speculations.

27 January 2025, 00:23

Nakihunter

This discussion is not a scientific one but a purely cultural and political one.

If you take a literal view of Biblical statements, then "God made man, male & female", just like he made animals and birds etc, male and female.

But genetic mutations are not explained by scripture.

Scientific understanding of natural phenomenon / genetics is not straightforward.

Some studies have established that Chromosomes define all Men as around 98% male & 2% female. The converse is true for females. All foetuses have both genders in them, to start with. Some people are born with both genitals.

I have a good friend (a very intelligent professor) who found out in his 60s that he had an endocrine problem. Detailed investigation & back tracking medical records to childhood in the US revealed that he was born with both genitals and the female part was surgically removed (his parents' decision). This information was hidden from him for over 60 years!

This phenomenon was associated with a fertility drug used by a parent! Now that drug is banned.

It is easy to pass judgement on people and condemn them and all others who do not agree with a very narrow paradigm.

Human empathy is so important in understanding people's complex personal situations.

I once read an article about a scientific study of sheep. They found that 10% of the rams were gay & only tried to mate with other males. There was even a clear difference in the brain structure of the two groups.

27 January 2025, 00:41

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
And therein is the rub.

They want to be treated as whatever under the law. But to keep this free from potential abuses, you need to have a source of easy documentation that everyone can access that is accurate, such as a government ID. Your ID states your gender or sex. That is the bathroom you use and the classification of sports teams you play on.

Dress how you want, associate with who you desire, but you cannot complain when someone doesn't want to acknowledge your "reality" if it differs from your original plumbing. Elect to not associate with them if it bugs you that much, as long as it is not a governmental issue that you have to.

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep. The article I think, said that itself. And I think I was clear in not stating it as absolute or settled.

What im suggesting is there is enough information coming through now, to put aside absolutes of psychosis or mental health and be open too the fact that this, and by this I mean a range of sexual and gender identities, might actually be hardwired, for lack of a better term. Into individuals.
But here's a more specific one if you wish.
Trans brain differences

What do you do with them? You let them live and behave as they wish too. As long as it does not impact negatively on another section of society. Biological Men in womens changing rooms for example.

Yeah, so that's pretty much where I stand, and where I think things should sit.
Lane I think is correct insofar that we should not be offering treatments to adolescents, who don't yet understand themselves . And we shouldn't be letting guardians make that decision for them. It's an adult decision to make.

My simple claim in this regard, is it's not sufficient to write any behaviour pattern off as psycosis.

And as a libertarian, from a philosophical perspective. Just as I support an individuals right too their religious autonomy, and happiness in acting and believing how they wish. As long as It does not impact negatively, someone else.
Similarly, this is why Im super critical of fundamentalist veganism.
After all, there is some thought that there is also a neurological difference in the brains of religious believers and non believers too.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0301051122000254

So I would be consistent with that belief in the LGBT etc community.

27 January 2025, 00:45

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
This discussion is not a scientific one but a purely cultural and political one.

If you take a literal view of Biblical statements, then "God made man, male & female", just like he made animals and birds etc, male and female.

But genetic mutations are not explained by scripture.

Scientific understanding of natural phenomenon / genetics is not straightforward.

Some studies have established that Chromosomes define all Men as around 98% male & 2% female. The converse is true for females. All foetuses have both genders in them, to start with. Some people are born with both genitals.

I have a good friend (a very intelligent professor) who found out in his 60s that he had an endocrine problem. Detailed investigation & back tracking medical records to childhood in the US revealed that he was born with both genitals and the female part was surgically removed (his parents' decision). This information was hidden from him for over 60 years!

This phenomenon was associated with a fertility drug used by a parent! Now that drug is banned.

It is easy to pass judgement on people and condemn them and all others who do not agree with a very narrow paradigm.

Human empathy is so important in understanding people's complex personal situations.

I once read an article about a scientific study of sheep. They found that 10% of the rams were gay & only tried to mate with other males. There was even a clear difference in the brain structure of the two groups.

Yep, and non scientifically, as a sheep farmer we always recognised those rams. We also noticed a peculiarity in the ewe herd, where at pregnancy testing we would more often than mere chance, get two empty ewes come through together, and that when marked they would very often be found together in the paddocks. lesbian sheep we used to call them.

27 January 2025, 08:26

ledvm

quote:
They found that 10% of the rams were gay & only tried to mate with other males.

I don’t believe that to be exactly as that study went. When those males were isolated with estrus ewes…100% of them mated with the ewes.

27 January 2025, 09:26

RolandtheHeadless

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They found that 10% of the rams were gay & only tried to mate with other males.

I don’t believe that to be exactly as that study went. When those males were isolated with estrus ewes…100% of them mated with the ewes.

My interpretation of that evidence is that females are the gay rams second choice.

27 January 2025, 16:17

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They found that 10% of the rams were gay & only tried to mate with other males.

I don’t believe that to be exactly as that study went. When those males were isolated with estrus ewes…100% of them mated with the ewes.

My interpretation of that evidence is that females are the gay rams second choice.

That wasn’t exactly the case either. When isolated with both…they still mated with the ewes as well. Standing estrus in ovine ewes only lasts 24-36 hours.

We know that extremely high libido males are indiscriminate on ways to ejaculate. But they will always accept a willing female.