The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum School principal fired over a picture o Michelangelos David.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
Do it...you will not regret it. Italy is amazing, my favorite museum I have been to is the British Museum...just WOW! | |||
|
One of Us |
The British museum is fantastic. The V&A is also excellent. I used to live (as a student) right next door to the V&A, the science museum and the natural history museum, spent many an afternoon just wandering around them and I probably have still not even seen half of what’s there. My favourite is the Smithsonian. | |||
|
One of Us |
My mother said Italy is her favorite. I suggested to her she get a place over there for seasonal residency, ( wink, hint, nudge, wink, hint, nudge,) she dismissed it.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Human biology belongs in science/biology class, not in art class. I admit I don’t see the issue with the David sculpture, but then again, I wasn’t in the class and don’t know what they were saying, either. What lesson was trying to be learned? As to the renaissance, that also is not an art lesson, except so far as it is viewed as a classification of art involving realism. I ask you, since you seem to be advocating for it, what is the goal of showing renaissance sculpture in a class where the concept of the dark ages and where the renaissance fits in relating to art, history, culture, and such? Given that world history has not generally been taught to elementary students yet, where does this fit, or is this, in your words, adult led exploring sexuality? We had human biology lessons including the scientific basis of reproduction in elementary school (starting in fifth grade) and they started introducing birth control and puberty then… but it was somewhat controversial and we had some kids pulled out by their parents after the parents were informed of the dates and topics and given a chance to request their child be exempted. Of course, they didn’t miss much as it was mostly a bunch of movie presentations for the collective class. One of the pulled kids in my class went on to be an OB-GYN, so obviously it didn’t stunt her education… | |||
|
| One of Us |
I recall reading that it was an art lesson. Im not an art teacher so couldn't tell you what the goals are, but if a teacher is taking an art classs on the renaissance some of the iconic pieces of the renaissance shouldn't be denied to students for no good reason. I also don't see any difference between someone objecting to David because its "pornographic" and all the other moaners who seem to look for things to get offered by these days. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Leonardo Da Vinci disagrees with you. As do most people. One cannot divorce the Renaissance from the Art the Renaissance birthed. Those sub topics are all interrelated and necessary for discussion. Renaissance Art is an expression of the humanism that was developed in literature, political philosophy and ideology, the seeds for the Protestant Reformation, banking, and science. Not being exposed to Renaissance is stunting one’s education. | |||
|
| One of Us |
While renaissance art is part of that history and culture, it’s part of a whole. You can’t understand the renaissance without understanding the dark ages (and you can’t understand the dark ages without understanding classical civilization). You kind of made the point. The renaissance needs to be a part of a whole, not a few pictures of classic artworks. They do not teach history, civics, literature, etc in elementary schools. Thus you are admitting that David, regardless of its artistic merits, is not an appropriate isolated lesion in elementary school. The fact that even in high school these days they ignore the classics seems to indicate you feel modern education is “stunting one’s education”… | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree with you on that. Hence one cannot disconnect an art class from a discussion or unit on Renaissance Art. A discussion 12 year olds can take up. There are reasons the David is sculpted like it is. That discussion is necessary. The image is necessary to have that discussion. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree that art is part of a discussion of the renaissance, and that it should be multi departmental education. I disagree that one can’t have an art class without the renaissance. Perspective, color, lines, form are all appropriate building blocks. I would agree one could not have art history or an overview of art as a whole without discussing renaissance art. I don’t necessarily agree that it’s something that the average 12 year olds are necessarily capable of learning or that they have had the preceding background. I do know that the current curriculum locally would indicate the kids would have absolutely no contextual understanding… ie it’s a prurient subject (ie sex only) in the absence of the prerequisite knowledge. | |||
|
| one of us |
 Trump: "Putin is a Genius" "Hezbollah is very smart"  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hear! Hear! Well written! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Agreed! Exactly! Lefty drama queens always pushing for more degradation of our society...... . | |||
|
| One of Us |
No meaningful lesson in can come from viewing the David in an art class about the Renaissance? Most of the parents of the students in that class did not agree with that position. Again, your position is stupid. Those who agree with you which are few are fools. A prime example why a minority of parents should not be given control of public education. They can home school. I will even allow them to opt their children out. The position that the David had no place in the class is pathetic. Only in Texas where we give 12 year olds guns to take life, but not view the David. Like I said, if this is permissible, then we should close down the museums. Of course the far right as advocated for such in defunding museums during President Trump’s term. Dr. Easter is not arguing what he wants for his child. He is arguing that a minority of parents should control and punish teachers for what gets taught. Two vastly different things. That is pathetic. His rational is pathetic. | |||
|
| One of Us |
An art class without the Renaissance is math without algebra. The average 12 year old can, because my hillbilly, rural 6th grade class did. Some cared and learned building blocks. Some did not. Those that did were the college path kids. Art class is not about coloring or so much how to. Art as a class is about what art is. How it is shaped or shaped the context it develops. Those are worthy of study in public education. | |||
|
One of Us |
I know JTEX very well. One thing guaranteed about him…he ain’t no fool. His wife happens to be a career educator as well. You will be lucky if you accomplish half of what he has in life and a fine gentleman to boot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess that the same applies to Kindergarten or 1st grade? Come on. Art is not art history.
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Absolutely nothing inappropriate, sexual, or degrading in seeing the David at any point in your life. Hard to believe that some people are still so uptight about the human form. The drama queens are those of you who are offended by one of the greatest pieces of art created during the renaissance, which was commissioned by the Catholic Church. We are talking about Michelangelo not Robert Mapplethorpe. Pathetic....completely pathetic. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Michelangelo … degradation? Pushed by lefty drama queens?
The above would strongly suggest otherwise. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Nute, I run businesses with many employees and have been on a school board for years. JTEX built, managed, and sold a very successful business and has made more intelligent personnel decisions than most of the rest on here combined. His wife is a lifelong educator in a large urban area. The rest posting above besides Dr. Butler (who is almost always the voice of reason)…I am not sure they have enough experience to pour piss out of a boot. We are talking about 6 graders in public school. This is not rocket science. There is simply NO need to use that example in class. It will spark controversy more often than not. Walking through a museum is totally different. I could care less if my children viewed it at 12 or really at any age for that matter. It still is not an appropriate subject for a 6th grade public school art class. When I need help with a hard problem…JTEX is on the shortlist of my iPhone…he ain’t no fool. But, make no mistake, there are fools posting above. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
There is very little glory in ignorance Lane. This type of art is on public display in Italy, you do not need to go to a museum to see it. To equate Michelangelo to pornography is a gross display of ignorance. The controversy is not 6th graders seeing the David, it is that adults can be so closed minded. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Get back to me when you can highlight where I ever used the word pornography. Then, we will discuss ignorance. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Can you read? That is the reason stated in the article for the parents objections. Come on Lane.... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Only on ARPF can you see fully grown men struck down by a terrible case of the vapors at the thought of a 12 year old seeing a marble peepee. You guys need to get out more. | |||
|
| One of Us |
And “I” said: That piece of art will always spark controversy in the context of a middle school and it was an exercise of poor judgment to choose it in the first place therefore replacing that principal made good sense. Middle Schools don’t exist to change philosophies of parents. They exist to educate kids in basic arts and sciences. “David” is not needed to do that. The best schools are schools without drama. A good principal runs a low drama school. The system worked like it should have and I was merely pointing that out…as the headline of the OP was for shock value anyway. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
 This is all about the culture war and you know it. Pizza-gate anyone? | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess that is why get elected to be on boards and can have success at managing businesses with large numbers of diverse young employees and you work alone in your shop…albeit doing beautiful work.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Want a cookie for being such a successful culture warrior?  I would suggest a thin mint but you might find some sort of sexual connection to the girl scouts. Not everybody wants a large number of employees, I certainly do not. We can't all be the same Lane. Diversity is said to be the spice of life. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Schools (well the good ones anyway) exist to develop and inspire young minds as well as teach basic maths and reading etc. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold if they have the ability to develop a passion for maths, literature, art or whatever in their young charges, which can go on to become something really important and fulfilling in their lives. Education shouldn’t be bland, middle of the road, grey, drab, and merely adequate. Young minds should be challenged and inspired to develop. If great art can do that for some then a good teacher should be allowed to use it. Maybe teachers living in fear of being singled out by puritanical parents means the whole system is poorer as a result, and it’s the kids who lose out in that scenario. But hey, at least it’s safe. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Shock horror, controversial image on a euro coin !! Guess kids on school trips to Europe need to be shielded from this too, no allowances for kids any more.   | |||
|
| One of Us |
I certainly appreciate the art and the motivation I assume of the effort of introducing it, but as I said to Doc Lane, I think it would have been better for everyone if the "temperature" of the class and school would have been taken in advance. Maybe this is a good school as you say, but some schools over here need to be drab. Here in rural AK there are some students that are ready for and would appreciate Renaissance art, but i can tell you that the majority of all schools are not. If you can't see that, think rural Afghanistan. Our schools need to be bland, gray and adequate. If you are wondering, yes we have smart students, Dillingham has a young man in his second year at MIT. His sister just graduated from The University of Virginia. David is appropriate in all education I think, just at different times in different places I think. The firing of staff mid year is unfortunate, not helpful and certainly not in the best interests of the students I'd add. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess you didn't read the interview with the principal that I posted the link to....they've been showing The David to kids at that school for years. They just always notified the parents beforehand and this year, they forgot to do that. So, this school that in your mind exercised "good judgment" apparently has not exercised your idea of "good judgment" in the past. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Seems that the principal neglected to do what you are now terming good judgement and got fired. The principal’s job is to ensure policy is followed and good judgment is used. A thankless task often. But it sounds like maybe it should be obvious that full nudity regardless of source is a touchy subject in the Bible Belt.
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Yeah......discussing Renaissance art with 12 year olds is A cornerstone to their well being and education......How would they ever manage to function in society  How clueless are you actually???? The more you post the more confident I become that you are educated well beyond your intelligence...... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Enough said ain't it! . | |||
|
| One of Us |
Another well reasoned post. | |||
|
One of Us |
I agree 100% Considering that most Renaissance era women were married by the age of 14, usually to much older men, it is natural that the artwork of the time would reflect this. But, one must consider, that even in the time of Michaelangelo, almost nobody would have seen his work. Just as the works of Bach, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, or Mozart would have never been heard short of an actual live performance. My own 14yo daughter just returned from a trip to Zurich, Rome and London and I guarantee you she saw more illicit artwork than Michaelangelo's David. One side of me agrees with the notion that subject matter needs to be let in according to the sensibilities of today's American students, but the other side of me thinks that there is a gigantic rift between classical art and what could be considered pornographic by today's standards. Maybe today's students and educators need to be woken up to the value of classical artwork at all levels. That would calm most of this crap right down... Here, I offer you another of Michaelangelo's masterworks that would probably generate as much discontent from the students' parents as David. Maybe from the other extreme of the political spectrum...  | |||
|
| One of Us |
This David controversy is not organic. It happened in all places Florida before. It is all a political playbook. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/29...hool-uproar-in-flori https://www.palmbeachpost.com/...-statue/70051389007/ The beauty of the Madonna and Christ is that it is not just some heaven image or morality image. It is a mother holding her murder, broken child. It exists beyond religion. It exist to the human regardless of faith we all feel. I saw a 300 plus Alabama farm boy cry at seeing it. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum School principal fired over a picture o Michelangelos David.
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: