quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
How about just being concerned for our President going into just outside the cave w the lions in it.

Not to mention, the death of a United States President would be a choir to the US directly engaging into War, not conflict War, in the Middle East.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am glad he is going. A Presidential visit to Israel is a major show of support for the country — credit where credit due.

I pray he stays safe…for his sake.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am glad he is going. A Presidential visit to Israel is a major show of support for the country — credit where credit due.

I pray he stays safe…for his sake.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am glad he is going. A Presidential visit to Israel is a major show of support for the country — credit where credit due.

I pray he stays safe…for his sake.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am glad he is going. A Presidential visit to Israel is a major show of support for the country — credit where credit due.

I pray he stays safe…for his sake.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am glad he is going. A Presidential visit to Israel is a major show of support for the country — credit where credit due.

I pray he stays safe…for his sake.

I shall join in being the 3rd concurrence to this.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If some person kills Biden, it will probably result in a fracas like Princip’s shooting Archduke Ferdinand.

That to me is a good reason for Biden to not go there. Send a high level delegation, send the VP, whatever… I don’t see what Biden will learn or accomplish by going there (ditto with going to Ukraine, which he has done…)

Our politics have become dominated by the symbolic gesture.

Kiev would appreciate 5 more tanks more than a presidential visit.

Israel would appreciate a UN Security Council mandate from Biden more than his visit.

Biden gains the appearance of decisiveness and power in the lead up to the elections is all this really gains as opposed to modifying our commitments.

I don’t see the actual benefit here. I see a lot of risks.

I too hope he does well.

As much as I think he’s a doddering fool, he is the president and is both a fellow man and the representative of our national will.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Ok, what do you see as an advantage?

It’s symbolic.

If we are supposedly moving towards use of logic and evidence, what does Biden setting foot in Israel actually accomplish? Especially during a war.


If you are good with symbolism over substance, then supporting this is reasonable.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Not arguing against supporting Israel, and I’m not certain how our president showing up during a war that we are not a part of makes our position stronger.

Biden has supported Israel strongly, which mildly surprised me given his past record of advocating for the Palestinians.

The point being, the power of the symbolic gesture is not worth the risk of a global war by him getting killed by say Iranian assets.

I have not complained about the overall of his policy plans supporting Ukraine or Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
And that speaks a heck of a lot louder than Biden showing up and risking yet another verbal gaffe or, alternatively getting himself killed.


I’m not arguing against his support, I’m just saying the risk vs benefit doesn’t seem there for him to go there in person.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I haven’t seen much wisdom out of experience from Biden.

And the type of gaffe I’m talking about iso e that results in a major miscalculation- like the diplomat who let Iraq think we would not react to their invading Kuwait, not the penny ante stuff that gets thrown around in elections. Biden has a pretty long history of saying things that end up having to be walked back.

I get you think Biden’s a good president. Frankly, I think you would do better. Most anyone with a sense of decency and a full mental capacity would.

And yes, that means Trump doesn’t qualify.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Is there a risk to Biden to go there? yes there is but the real question is the level of risk. With the level of security I would call the risk very low, but the publicity would be big. Remember in today's modern wars publicity good or bad wins/losses more wars than bullets and missiles.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The trip is largely symbolic--an important symbol of US support.

If the Arabs don't want to meet with Biden, so be it.

I can't find much sympathy inside myself for the plight of the Palestinians--which is self-inflicted, so far as I'm concerned. They chose Hamas to rule them after all.

Damn, Hamas are not only violent, but stupid too!

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The trip is largely symbolic--an important symbol of US support.

If the Arabs don't want to meet with Biden, so be it.

I can't find much sympathy inside myself for the plight of the Palestinians--which is self-inflicted, so far as I'm concerned. They chose Hamas to rule them after all.

Damn, Hamas are not only violent, but stupid too!

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The trip is largely symbolic--an important symbol of US support.

If the Arabs don't want to meet with Biden, so be it.

I can't find much sympathy inside myself for the plight of the Palestinians--which is self-inflicted, so far as I'm concerned. They chose Hamas to rule them after all.

Damn, Hamas are not only violent, but stupid too!

Somewhere around 70% of Gazans were either not born or not old enough to vote the last time an election was held in Gaza.

Like their Republican soul mates as soon as they gained power Hamas decided elections were no longer necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The trip is largely symbolic--an important symbol of US support.

If the Arabs don't want to meet with Biden, so be it.

I can't find much sympathy inside myself for the plight of the Palestinians--which is self-inflicted, so far as I'm concerned. They chose Hamas to rule them after all.

Damn, Hamas are not only violent, but stupid too!

Somewhere around 70% of Gazans were either not born or not old enough to vote the last time an election was held in Gaza.

Like their Republican soul mates as soon as they gained power Hamas decided elections were no longer necessary.

I don't often resort to personal insults - so i won't

Jeff wins trash post of the year-to-date

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
He is taking umbrage with the comparison between the GOP and Hamas.

Despite the flaws of the Right which is tied to a large segment of the GOP, and those flaws includes attempts to bring religious hegemony in the public sphere, and yes violence.

The Right/GOP are not cutting the heads off of their counterparts. They are not using rape systematically to destroy the other side.

The GOP, the Right on its worse day being Jan 6 is not Hamas.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Is there a risk to Biden to go there? yes there is but the real question is the level of risk. With the level of security I would call the risk very low, but the publicity would be big. Remember in today's modern wars publicity good or bad wins/losses more wars than bullets and missiles.

Notice how quiet it's been since he landed?

Teddy Roosevelt never even dreamed of a stick the size of the Ford Carrier Strike Group, and the Abe Lincoln SG is in the Arabian Sea or the Persian Gulf with the Ike incoming.

The most powerful Navy in the Middle East is the U.S. Navy. The most powerful Air Force in the Middle East is the U.S. Navy.

Everybody is sucking on Hall's or Ricola's best because right now is a poor time to cough out of turn.

quote:

There was an observed reduction in rocket fire from the Gaza Strip towards Israel during US President Joe Biden’s trip visit to Tel Aviv on Wednesday. The few that were fired were not anywhere near the president.

Yet almost immediately after Biden took off, Hamas started firing rockets again, with a barrage towards Tel Aviv and central Israel areas, including Petah Tikva, Hod Hasharon, and other locations.