quote:

Is America better because Donald Trump has been charged with 91 felonies in multiple jurisdictions?

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Query:

Is America better because Donald Trump has been charged with 91 felonies in multiple jurisdictions?
Only if you subscribe to the proposition that no man is above the Law.

Will America be better because Democratic senators have already decided to put their futures and that of their party ahead of their duty to review evidence and if true to convict?
Like Republican Senators did twice?

It’s only a fools errand if Superman’s motto of “Truth, justice and the American way” is dead on the alter of “Greed, partisan politics and the Banana Republic way”.
If it's dead Republicans killed it. The evidence of Trump's guilt was clear in both his Impeachments but Party loyalty proved stronger that the Oaths Republicans went through the motions of taking.

Do you have so little faith in Democrat senators that you’re resigned to another display of their lack of character? That’s really sad, if so.
After over two years of flailing around the best the clowns in the Freedumb Caucus can come up with are the unfounded "allegations" Giuliani and the Russians floated before the last election, and no Senator of any Party should even consider voting to convict based on unproven allegations.

Where’s the Democrat statesman who should say, “If Articles are presented to the Senate, it is our duty to consciously weigh the evidence and if impeachable offense is proved, to vote as the Constitution and our oaths mandate “
Were Democratic Senators not supposed to be watching the clown show Gym Jordan and company have been putting on center stage?

Does America deserve less?
America deserves far, far more than this collection of side-show freaks and grifters the Republicans have elevated can offer.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers.
The other of Biden crime deniers.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers (or Trump apologist).
The other of Biden crime deniers and doomsday environmentalists

I think both need to be a bit more honest with themselves and make an adjustment or three. It just ain’t black or white.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers.
The other of Biden crime deniers.

What crime?

JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
You might not like Ted Cruz, but on his biweekly internet show, he makes a pretty good and documented case for bribery and extortion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers.
The other of Biden crime deniers.

What crime?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Biden can't be convicted on impeachment the same way trump couldn't, and with about as much impact

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
You might not like Ted Cruz, but on his biweekly internet show, he makes a pretty good and documented case for bribery and extortion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers.
The other of Biden crime deniers.

What crime?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Biden can't be convicted on impeachment the same way trump couldn't, and with about as much impact

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Biden can't be convicted on impeachment the same way trump couldn't, and with about as much impact

Exactly. Political kabuki. Waste of time. Congress finding ways to accomplish nothing. I guess now we can look forward to any sitting President with the House held by the other party being impeached in every election cycle.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
You might not like Ted Cruz, but on his biweekly internet show, he makes a pretty good and documented case for bribery and extortion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Kinda funny!

One side is made up of client deniers.
The other of Biden crime deniers.

What crime?

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you take him at his word, he extorted Ukraine to shut down the investigation of his son when he was VP.

Yes, they did a brief investigation and declared him innocent, but a lot more information has come out since then that make it at least have the appearance of impropriety.

He also brought Hunter along on multiple trips on AF 2 and introduced him to international power figures thus possibly using his status to gain work/money for his inept kid (influence peddling).

Even if it actually doesn’t rise to criminality, most folks agree it’s wrong.

quote:

In 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Pshonka began investigating Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption during 2010–2012.[42][43]

In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[27][44] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[42]

While visiting Kyiv in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Whether or not Shokin's successor was "solid" was never confirmed.[45] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.[46][47] In 2016, The New York Times published an article that suggested that "the credibility of the vice president’s anti-corruption message may have been undermined" by Hunter Biden’s dealings with the company.[48][49]

In May 2019, Vitaly Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016, provided documents to Bloomberg News claiming that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.[50][51] Shokin himself claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.[36][52] This claim was supported by testimony Shokin provided on September 4, 2019 for an Austrian court.[53] Testifying in support of his prior claims of investigating Burisma Holdings, Shokin, in a sworn affidavit dated September 4, 2019[53] for a court in Austria, stated that "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors."[54] Shokin continued, stating that, "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."[55]

The investigation into Burisma only pertained to events happening before[56] Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings in 2014.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you take him at his word, he extorted Ukraine to shut down the investigation of his son when he was VP.

Yes, they did a brief investigation and declared him innocent, but a lot more information has come out since then that make it at least have the appearance of impropriety.

He also brought Hunter along on multiple trips on AF 2 and introduced him to international power figures thus possibly using his status to gain work/money for his inept kid (influence peddling).

Even if it actually doesn’t rise to criminality, most folks agree it’s wrong.

Absolute bullshit, the exact opposite of the facts.

quote:

In 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Pshonka began investigating Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption during 2010–2012.[42][43]

In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[27][44] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[42]

While visiting Kyiv in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Whether or not Shokin's successor was "solid" was never confirmed.[45] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.[46][47] In 2016, The New York Times published an article that suggested that "the credibility of the vice president’s anti-corruption message may have been undermined" by Hunter Biden’s dealings with the company.[48][49]

In May 2019, Vitaly Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016, provided documents to Bloomberg News claiming that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.[50][51] Shokin himself claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.[36][52] This claim was supported by testimony Shokin provided on September 4, 2019 for an Austrian court.[53] Testifying in support of his prior claims of investigating Burisma Holdings, Shokin, in a sworn affidavit dated September 4, 2019[53] for a court in Austria, stated that "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors."[54] Shokin continued, stating that, "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."[55]

The investigation into Burisma only pertained to events happening before[56] Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings in 2014.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
And Biden’s bragging about getting the prosecutor booted by threatening holding up aid?

The prosecutor was corrupt, and was blocking investigations of corruption, including of Burisma, WHO HUNTER BIDEN DIDN'T WORK FOR!

I said if he was to be believed.

Yes, there has been statements that nothing occurred….

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you take him at his word, he extorted Ukraine to shut down the investigation of his son when he was VP.

Yes, they did a brief investigation and declared him innocent, but a lot more information has come out since then that make it at least have the appearance of impropriety.

He also brought Hunter along on multiple trips on AF 2 and introduced him to international power figures thus possibly using his status to gain work/money for his inept kid (influence peddling).

Even if it actually doesn’t rise to criminality, most folks agree it’s wrong.

Absolute bullshit, the exact opposite of the facts.

quote:

In 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Pshonka began investigating Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption during 2010–2012.[42][43]

In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[27][44] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[42]

While visiting Kyiv in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Whether or not Shokin's successor was "solid" was never confirmed.[45] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.[46][47] In 2016, The New York Times published an article that suggested that "the credibility of the vice president’s anti-corruption message may have been undermined" by Hunter Biden’s dealings with the company.[48][49]

In May 2019, Vitaly Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016, provided documents to Bloomberg News claiming that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.[50][51] Shokin himself claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.[36][52] This claim was supported by testimony Shokin provided on September 4, 2019 for an Austrian court.[53] Testifying in support of his prior claims of investigating Burisma Holdings, Shokin, in a sworn affidavit dated September 4, 2019[53] for a court in Austria, stated that "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors."[54] Shokin continued, stating that, "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."[55]

The investigation into Burisma only pertained to events happening before[56] Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings in 2014.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
The State Department and the European Commission stated that Shokin had made acceptable progress in battling corruption

quote:

The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine's scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country's political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.

Ukraine's parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor's office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Hummmmmm?

Someone finally saw a duck.

WAPO just published an op-ed telling Joe to withdraw from the 2024 race.

Will the sheeple follow their Bible?

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Nope.

Biden has more than enough behavior to warrant investigation.

I don’t think that there is enough proof to actually go through with getting him removed from office. Yes, it’s a fool’s errand to try and impeach him at this point- he should be fought at the ballot box, not through grandstanding like the Trump impeachments were.

The GOP should see how useless those impeachments were and acknowledge that they don’t have anywhere near enough to remove Biden at this point.

The Dems should see what a mess they created with their inadequate impeachment attempts.

None of the articles brought forward address what Trump ended up really doing.

But if there was enough to impeach Trump, there certainly is enough to investigate Biden.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Nope.

Biden has more than enough behavior to warrant investigation.

I don’t think that there is enough proof to actually go through with getting him removed from office. Yes, it’s a fool’s errand to try and impeach him at this point- he should be fought at the ballot box, not through grandstanding like the Trump impeachments were.

The GOP should see how useless those impeachments were and acknowledge that they don’t have anywhere near enough to remove Biden at this point.

The Dems should see what a mess they created with their inadequate impeachment attempts.

None of the articles brought forward address what Trump ended up really doing.

But if there was enough to impeach Trump, there certainly is enough to investigate Biden.