The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Hello, IvanGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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So Vladimir Putin, in a show of "strength", sent a little flotilla of naval ships to Cuba, accompanied by the inevitable rescue tug without which the Russian Navy can't leave a bathtub. Everybody with three or more functioning brain cells knew that such a movement would be shadowed by one or more American fast-attack subs just in case the existence of those ships became inconvenient. Of course, the chances of the Russians actually being able to detect their shadow were essentially zero, so the Navy decided to reassure them that somebody was available to call for help if all their ships broke down at the same time. Hello, Ivan Quite thoughtful of the Navy... "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | ||
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"Just a routine port visit."  -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Since 1945 nobody will even send ships out to try. That one submarine is quite capable of destroying every naval vessel bigger than a patrol boat in your piddling little pond without your military or any of your neighbors being able to determine where it is within 5 miles, while destroying a couple dozen land targets at the same time. We have 24 of them, our third-best attack submarine, but better than anything else in the water except our Seawolf and Virginias. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Yeah my thought too. Who would try take on the US Navy? I mean hell they have like the 4th biggest airforce in the world themselves. | |||
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| Administrator |
Vietnam? Kicked their butts. Afghanistan? Kicked their butts. Iraq? Kicked theirt butts!  | |||
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One of Us |
Saeed,......boooooring!  Id guess that sub of ours in Guantanamo was more for the American public than anyone else. Vlad sends his canoes to Cuba, we surface in Cuba to polish the rivets or file the blade on the propeller or something. It's been a boring June so far, hopefully Vlad will send a couple more of his turbo prop bombers towards Alaska soon. I wonder how much and what kind of prescription pills do those Russian commanders have to take to find off the suicidal depression they must feel when sober.  | |||
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What has your navy ever done Saeed? Nothing is my 1st guess, since all you have is a guy who can swim a little, with a snorkel & an old speargun. | |||
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By kicked thier butts you mean Managed to survive until the states pulled out. Also given this is about the navy. How many american ships got sunk in those actions? | |||
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How many Americans, and more importantly, others, mostly inn, were killed by America’s stupid adventurism?? | |||
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Percentage wise, far less than Russia right now. | |||
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Bullshit! Clinton alone killed hundreds of thousands of starving children in Iraq! Agent Orange still killing innocent Vietnamese! | |||
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One of Us |
Bullshit, Russia makes no effort to reduce civilian casualties in Ukraine or Afghanistan when they were there. The US did as much as possible (short of not getting lied into an unnecessary war in the first place by Blair and Chimpy) to limit civilian casualties, not always successfully, but it tried. Look at what they did to kill al-zawaharwi with a missile containing no explosives. Much easier and doubtless less expensive to just bomb the place but they chose to do this instead killing only the target and no one else. | |||
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Keep at it protesting against the crimes of America! When was there a time period when America was NOT involved in some stupid, uncalled for war?? They invaded Iraq because Saddam killed 200 of his own people. Why didn’t they get involved in Zimbabwe when Mugabe was murdering people? Why did the not get involve when the Khmer Rouge were killing millions? America is the worst country in committing war crimes on this earth! Oh, let us not forget your own Teflon Tony! Come to think of it, what happened to the Balfour Declaration?? Who gave you the right to create the most racialist country on the face of this earth?? | |||
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. . . countries with a larger navy than the UAE . . . Bangladesh, Lebanon, Malaysia, Qatar to name a few. But we should specifically mention their submarine fleet . . . oops there is no submarine fleet. Oh, I forget, the UAE is expecting others to bale it out of any problems. Mike | |||
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Credit where credit is due, the UAE has finally managed to achieve first place in something, they have financed the largest humanitarian disaster on the planet and the largest famine the world has seen in 40 years  Bravo!https://www.foreignaffairs.com...udans-manmade-famine https://www.theguardian.com/wo...t-famine-in-40-years https://www.aljazeera.com/feat...s-theyre-fleeing-war | |||
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The humanitarian crisis in Sudan brought to you courtesy of the RSF, funded primarily by the UAE. 20+ million people on the verge of starvation. Thanks a lot.  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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How long did "the fourth largest Army in the world" last after we decided it was inconvenient? We didn't lose the war, we lost the after-war because ideologues like Dick Cheney chose political reliability over competence and sent College Republicans in as administrators to build a government to replace the one we dismantled. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Yes. You won. That is why Iraq is Iran’s best friend now! Keep on dreaming! | |||
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We have better equipment, better training, better logistics etc. What we don’t have is better or even normal levels of “will”. Wars are won in the Will. That’s why we are 1-3 in my lifetime. Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan all beat us by having the Will to win, not by having a better navy etc. The Russians will throw their people into the graves until we break and run. Look at the war in Ukraine. | |||
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Absolutely spot on analysis. ^^^ I have been saying it for years…the generations past the Greatest Generation don’t have the stomach for war. You can see it right here with the people even whining about Israel who just suffered an attack that pales 911 in evilness and in comparative scope. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The reason Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq "won" is because it was their country. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Moderator |
The soldiers won the battles, the politicians lost the wars opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Iraq was the stupidest thing the US has done for a long time. If there was a reasonable prospect of getting Blair and Chimpy on a plane to Bagdad with their passports revoked id pay for their tickets. That doesn't change the fact that the US employs types of weapons which are less likely to result in the deaths of civilians where it can. Ok, you can go back to rattling on about Balfour now... | |||
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Just like Germany and Japan...oh wait. We the American people send our sons and daughters to serve the government that we elect and the american people, not the idiot americans they elect, lose wars. It hurts, I know, but the first step is to admit the truth. | |||
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Don't forget Dick Cheney, who was the true master of the stupid invasion of Iraq. | |||
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Don't anybody bring up that it was a Republican, Eisenhower, who put the first 900 American "advisors" into Vietnam, and a Republican, Nixon, who made deals to postpone peace talks to preserve an election issue, and it was a Republican, Bush the Lesser, who sent American troops to Afghanistan and Iraq. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Not nearly as important as that they didn't see it through. They didn't finish what they started. Lesson learned in hindsight, they have four years, one term. Get it done within those constraints. Who knows what happens with the next election cycle. Democrat or Republican, if you hold the seat, complete the mission while you hold the seat. FDR did, Lincoln did, Wilson did. "W" should have and could have ended it all within his first and certainly his second term. | |||
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I would say the lesson to be learned is if you can't define exactly what the mission is and exactly what constitutes victory, and how it is in the National interest of the United States, don't put American troops in harm's way. If you do those three things the American military will get the job done regardless of a change of Administration. If you don't it won't matter if you remain in power for 30 years. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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WWI was more than our involvement, in fact we were more an incentive to surrender to the Germans than on the ground... but as a war of attrition that made a difference. BTW, Wilson intended to have the "League of Nations" and a much different peace than happened. His vision while touted didn't make it to first base, even in the US. WWII was more than 4 years (term) of a president. FDR was reelected during the war, and then subsequently died and a new chief took over (Truman) who certainly faced the post war with a very different viewpoint than FDR. Korea is still ongoing (no peace treaty) and we at least kept the south free. The lesson that has to be continually relearned is exactly what Jefffive says. The military can achieve objectives. What doesn't work is a generalized policy goal with moving goalposts. I think the last part about how it is in the national interest is what makes the war moral for a nation, but the military can fight it and win without that- if the war is short enough (see the Spanish-American war or for that matter, the end of the war of 1812) the debate on rectitude will happen well after the fighting is done and peace reigns. We learned that in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now likely in Ukraine. The Iraq war would have been over very shortly if we had invaded and said we wanted Saddam and his chief henchmen handed over and executed... Simple punitive expedition like with Mexico before WWI. Notice we haven't had another war with Mexico since... | |||
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