What a mess of a country we now have thanks to libtards and Biden's incoherent border not-a-policy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ari...ear-borderlands-home

He deserves a medal and our deepest thanks for eliminating one more potential murderer in our midst.

So you think Kelly had the right to be judge & executioner on people who posed no obvious threat to him. Got it. I don't care where they are from, either.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
What a mess of a country we now have thanks to libtards and Biden's incoherent border not-a-policy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ari...ear-borderlands-home

He deserves a medal and our deepest thanks for eliminating one more potential murderer in our midst.

Right. He should get a medal for shooting an unarmed man who posed zero threat to him. You are an idiot.

It’s amazing isn’t it Ross that Mike knows exactly what happened and can sense all the way from Texas that the illegal posed no threat.

These idiots like Mike live in their upscale neighborhoods where nothing ever changes from day to day, listen to their liberal propaganda sources, and then want to send a man to prison for defending his wife and property.

For us that live rurally we see the changes. Those of us that own property along the border, we have lived the terror.

Yet Mike knows and Joshua will be along to agree with him.

100% Ross…America is a mess.

quote:

we have lived the terror.

Would you say you live in terror right now?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It’s amazing isn’t it Ross that Mike knows exactly what happened and can sense all the way from Texas that the illegal posed no threat.

These idiots like Mike live in their upscale neighborhoods where nothing ever changes from day to day, listen to their liberal propaganda sources, and then want to send a man to prison for defending his wife and property.

For us that live rurally we see the changes. Those of us that own property along the border, we have lived the terror.

Yet Mike knows and Joshua will be along to agree with him.

100% Ross…America is a mess.

I just read the news. These guys weren't wearing camo as the guys wife testified. One of them had a camo back pack. They didn't have rifles or any weapons as the wife testified. No weapons were found at the scene. The guy saw some people crossing his property and opened up on them with an AK.

Lane, I'm assuming all this relates to your stories about girls being run off the road by Cartel members down at the ranch you own in south Texas. You know...those stories you tell that have no factual basis.

If there's any evidence this guy was "defending his wife and property", I invite you to share it with us.

As for me and my "upscale neighborhood"....I'm not the one who owns a hunting ranch down south. So, stick that up your rear.

One obvious thing would be to take her back out there and take his gun and fire it 5 times into the air and 5 times in the direction the body was found. There should be a distinct difference in sound between the 2 situations. If she could swear that the into the air sound was what she heard that day then that should help to settle it. The few times that I've fired straight up the muzzle blast was hardly audible. So who would have killed him if the rancher didn't?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It’s amazing isn’t it Ross that Mike knows exactly what happened and can sense all the way from Texas that the illegal posed no threat.

These idiots like Mike live in their upscale neighborhoods where nothing ever changes from day to day, listen to their liberal propaganda sources, and then want to send a man to prison for defending his wife and property.

For us that live rurally we see the changes. Those of us that own property along the border, we have lived the terror.

Yet Mike knows and Joshua will be along to agree with him.

100% Ross…America is a mess.

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

The jury will decide the facts of this case. I do not know what happened and neither does you or Dogcat. The jury shall tell us. Obviously, there is probable cause to believe you are wrong in the facts. Otherwise, this case would not be indicted and tried.

If no evidence is present to support the elements of a non-justifiable homicide (not just murder) after the case in chief, the judge is mandated to grant a directed verdict.
I will await the verdict.

You did not grow up or live today any more rural than I.

Who would have thought that shooting people for trespassing outside the home could get you charged and tried? Everyone with a basic brain or morality.

Doesn't matter who would have killed him if the rancher didn't. The thing is nobody saw the rancher kill anyone. In fact, he may not have even fired a shot. Seems like he has a good chance for an acquittal. Sounds like he needs better fences, a better rifle, and an excavator. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Doesn't matter who would have killed him if the rancher didn't. The thing is nobody saw the rancher kill anyone. In fact, he may not have even fired a shot. Seems like he has a good chance for an acquittal. Sounds like he needs better fences, a better rifle, and an excavator. Regards, Bill

How about that, an advocate for murder.

Most murders are not seen.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are implying another person, another migrant killed this individual. Maybe?

The jury will tell us the facts. The Appellate Courts will tell us if the judge had any errors in applying the law. The second part assumes a conviction. It is a statement how the system works. It is mot a prediction of a conviction.

I know the following: 1) beyond a reasonable doubt does not require to prove beyond all doubt, 2) a juror who expresses all doubt must be disproven is to be struck for cause, 3( circumstantial evidence is sufficient to convict, 4) the jury may make all responsible inferences from testimony, direct evidence, and circumstantial evidence.

The above (In addition, with my prior observations of how the judicial system works which I will repeat below) is all anyone can say. I will add the defendant is presumed innocent. This presumption means he states out innocent.
The state’s burden is to strip him of that presumption.


Again, The jury will decide the facts of this case. I do not know what happened and neither does you or Dogcat. The jury shall tell us. Obviously, there is probable cause to believe you are wrong in the facts. Otherwise, this case would not be indicted and tried.

If no evidence is present to support the elements of a non-justifiable homicide (not just murder) after the case in chief, the judge is mandated to grant a directed verdict.
I will await the verdict.

Who would have thought that you go outside, shoot off your gun, and an unarmed man (assumption) winds up dead that you would get indicted and tried? That is an easy one.

Is the defense theory of the case that the defendant did not fire his gun, and a third party did the shooting that resulted in the killing?

quote:

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

I think the majority of Americans are rightfully convinced that the judicial system is now just another political tool.

I have posted those stats before. They do not.

Dogcat and Dr. Easter are going to have to do more than simply declare this trial aa delegitimate when they say, “Give this man a medal and do not try him.” It is not even a debate at this point.

Oh, and President Trump can’t get any indictments dismissed, and keeps losing across state and federal courts. Yeah, it is the courts fault and not the conduct of President Trump. That is sarcasm.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

I think the majority of Americans are rightfully convinced that the judicial system is now just another political tool.

I am not convinced.
I know several judges and like any person they come with their own individual biases and preferences. The judges I know rally around the uniformity of the law, the Constitution and the process.

I believe in the judiciary, I believe in the process. Yes I believe it's in most Americans best interest to steer far clear of the Judiciary, but it seems to me that in the long term we remain even keeled because of the Court.

They should acquit and let the old man go. It is a failure of state and nation and not the individual that his property is so hazardous. The Illegal was trespassing on the ranchers land. That's not the ranchers fault.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It’s amazing isn’t it Ross that Mike knows exactly what happened and can sense all the way from Texas that the illegal posed no threat.

These idiots like Mike live in their upscale neighborhoods where nothing ever changes from day to day, listen to their liberal propaganda sources, and then want to send a man to prison for defending his wife and property.

For us that live rurally we see the changes. Those of us that own property along the border, we have lived the terror.

Yet Mike knows and Joshua will be along to agree with him.

100% Ross…America is a mess.

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

The jury will decide the facts of this case. I do not know what happened and neither does you or Dogcat. The jury shall tell us. Obviously, there is probable cause to believe you are wrong in the facts. Otherwise, this case would not be indicted and tried.

If no evidence is present to support the elements of a non-justifiable homicide (not just murder) after the case in chief, the judge is mandated to grant a directed verdict.
I will await the verdict.

You did not grow up or live today any more rural than I.

Who would have thought that shooting people for trespassing outside the home could get you charged and tried? Everyone with a basic brain or morality.

Right on cue!

quote:

They should acquit and let the old man go. It is a failure of state and nation and not the individual that his property is so hazardous. The Illegal was trespassing on the ranchers land. That's not the ranchers fault.

Trespassing does not merit murdering.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It’s amazing isn’t it Ross that Mike knows exactly what happened and can sense all the way from Texas that the illegal posed no threat.

These idiots like Mike live in their upscale neighborhoods where nothing ever changes from day to day, listen to their liberal propaganda sources, and then want to send a man to prison for defending his wife and property.

For us that live rurally we see the changes. Those of us that own property along the border, we have lived the terror.

Yet Mike knows and Joshua will be along to agree with him.

100% Ross…America is a mess.

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

The jury will decide the facts of this case. I do not know what happened and neither does you or Dogcat. The jury shall tell us. Obviously, there is probable cause to believe you are wrong in the facts. Otherwise, this case would not be indicted and tried.

If no evidence is present to support the elements of a non-justifiable homicide (not just murder) after the case in chief, the judge is mandated to grant a directed verdict.
I will await the verdict.

You did not grow up or live today any more rural than I.

Who would have thought that shooting people for trespassing outside the home could get you charged and tried? Everyone with a basic brain or morality.

Right on cue!

Everything I said is legal truth. You cannot refute it or you would. I am starting to think you are as stupid as you act when it comes to civics.

You will also note I did not agree w MM.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Doesn't matter who would have killed him if the rancher didn't. The thing is nobody saw the rancher kill anyone. In fact, he may not have even fired a shot. Seems like he has a good chance for an acquittal. Sounds like he needs better fences, a better rifle, and an excavator. Regards, Bill

True, but given the circumstances it was either the rancher or the tooth fairy. As I said earlier if his wife clearly heard the shots it's quite likely he shot horizontally rather than up into the sky.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

America is fine no thanks to you and President Trump. America is fine because the independence of the judicial system still stands.

I think the majority of Americans are rightfully convinced that the judicial system is now just another political tool.

If talking about the Supreme Court, I heartily agree.

Committing perjury to get confirmed should be disqualifying.

The guy is not a hero.

At best he’s a person who was forced into self defense. That’s not heroic.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

They should acquit and let the old man go. It is a failure of state and nation and not the individual that his property is so hazardous. The Illegal was trespassing on the ranchers land. That's not the ranchers fault.

Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Heartily agree!

However it seems to me there's a backstory leading up to this event that the rancher is not guilty of. Just in my lifetime the border has changed from a lark for teenage mischief and casual tourism into a war zone. No I don't think that's an exaggeration, there was that recent story we saw here about a Texas gun shop and belt fed machine guns meant for a Cartel.

By no doing of his own, the rancher is now a front row victim and I consider that a failure on the part of his local, state and federal government. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" doesn't include a reenactment of the Last Stand at the Alamo.

They otta let the old guy go and point the finger at Biden for the death.

So had he done nothing but watched them walk into the sunset he'd better off today.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

Another peaceful patriot attending a sit in.

Well, maybe more of a dirt nap to be honest

What is that saying? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

Another peaceful patriot attending a sit in.

Well, maybe more of a dirt nap to be honest

What is that saying? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

So, so far in the vote count,
Steve-O supports KILLING trespassers -- got -- clear, forever

Kelly must be Stevie's hero

Note: Steve hit's stink bait like a farm raised catfish

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

If ever there was a best example of ,"suicide by cop" she was it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

So, so far in the vote count,
Steve-O supports KILLING trespassers -- got -- clear, forever

Kelly must be Stevie's hero

Note: Steve hit's stink bait like a farm raised catfish

Only those trespassers trying to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power, engaged in sedation or assault.

The average trespasser deserves a trial.

I thought you were totally against putting words in someone's mouth? A new day and a new mandate I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

If ever there was a best example of ,"suicide by cop" she was it.

Hard to argue with that logic, unless you are trying to minimize the severity of J the 6th.

Just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

So, so far in the vote count,
Steve-O supports KILLING trespassers -- got -- clear, forever

Kelly must be Stevie's hero

Note: Steve hit's stink bait like a farm raised catfish

Only those trespassers trying to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power, engaged in sedation or assault.

The average trespasser deserves a trial.

I thought you were totally against putting words in someone's mouth? A new day and a new mandate I guess.

She was certainly sedated that's for sure.

quote:

Finally some you, I, and the family of Ashli Babbitt can agree on

She was not just trespassing & you damn well know it. She was engaged in a violent attempt at taking the capital, B & E at a bare minimum, insurrection to be sure.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

So, so far in the vote count,
Steve-O supports KILLING trespassers -- got -- clear, forever

Kelly must be Stevie's hero

Note: Steve hit's stink bait like a farm raised catfish

Only those trespassers trying to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power, engaged in sedation or assault.

The average trespasser deserves a trial.

I thought you were totally against putting words in someone's mouth? A new day and a new mandate I guess.

She was certainly sedated that's for sure.

There should have been a whole lot more shooting.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/...pitol/2535527/?amp=1

I gather that this is a video of the scene and place just before Babbit was killed.
I can't for the life of me think of any reason for law enforcement to not shoot every single person not an on duty police officer in this video.

Totality of the Circumstances whether the officer acted responsibly in the use of lethal force.

She was part of mob that broke through a police line that was actively assaulting the Congress. The same group that was chanting hang Mike Pence.

If she would have stayed outside and protested peacefully, she would be alive.

You do not have to be correct in lethal defense of self. You have to have a subjective and objective belief that you are confronted w serious physical injury or death. Trespassing outside in private property alone does not get it done; not even Texas.

The jury will tell us the facts applied to the law that the trial judge gives. The appellate courts will tell us if the trial judge permitted any errors of law that were not harmless. That assumes a conviction.

Thst is all that can be said today about this case. However, the Texas contingent just knows it was a good, justifiable kill because why not shoot trespassing immigrants. Sadly, the act of trespass alone outside on private property is not going to satisfy self-defense. We will see what faces the jurors accept or refute. They are the finder of fact.

This trespass thing is why I have been very critical of some firearm companies/accessory marketing. Best example comming to mind is the condition Crimson commercials when an older gentleman in his garage facing a street pulls his crimson trace laser sighted climber on a group of young mean approach Ming (unarmed and making no threats) from the street.

Firearms are not to deescalate a situation. Firearm ownership for self defense is to be employed upon bring faced with reasonable, objective, threat of serious physical injury or death. Hence, we have someone trespassing (assumed unarmed) outside of the domicile. We assume this trespasser was unarmed. The homeowner grabs his gun, goes outside to confront trespasser(s), shooting starts, unarmed trespasser gets killed.

I can fill in the blank w faces that make that justified (legal term), murder, or manslaughter. The jury will fill in those gaps and render a verdict with those facts.

Again, at the prosecution’s resting its case in chief, the Judge will decide if facts have been presented to elements of the charged offense(s) that a reasonable juror could find guilt.

Again, beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean all doubt must be overcome. Circumstantial evidence and all read inferences there from are sufficient to base a verdict.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

They should acquit and let the old man go. It is a failure of state and nation and not the individual that his property is so hazardous. The Illegal was trespassing on the ranchers land. That's not the ranchers fault.

Trespassing does not merit murdering.

Heartily agree!

However it seems to me there's a backstory leading up to this event that the rancher is not guilty of. Just in my lifetime the border has changed from a lark for teenage mischief and casual tourism into a war zone. No I don't think that's an exaggeration, there was that recent story we saw here about a Texas gun shop and belt fed machine guns meant for a Cartel.

By no doing of his own, the rancher is now a front row victim and I consider that a failure on the part of his local, state and federal government. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" doesn't include a reenactment of the Last Stand at the Alamo.

They otta let the old guy go and point the finger at Biden for the death.

Judge declares mistrial.


.

I wonder what Tre count was? Do they let you poll the jury in Arizona?

I ask because if the count was 11-1 with one hold out, it is getting retried. If 4 or more held out there will be no new trial. This assumes, you get to know the count in AZ. You do in KY.

Like I always say. He is presumed innocent and the state failed to overcome, rebut the presumption. It is a close case as the hung just shows.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I wonder what Tre count was? Do they let you poll the jury in Arizona?

I ask because if the count was 11-1 with one hold out, it is getting retried. If 4 or more held out there will be no new trial. This assumes, you get to know the count in AZ. You do in KY.

Like I always say. He is presumed innocent and the state failed to overcome, rebut the presumption. It is a close case as the hung just shows.

I read somewhere it was only one vote to convict.

If that is accurate, there will not be a retrial.

I read summary of Defense argument attacking the credibility of the police as attributing falsely statements of the man killing people.

Never a good sign when your cops are backed into a corner having fabricated matters. See OJ.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If that is accurate, there will not be a retrial.

I read summary of Defense argument attacking the credibility of the police as attributing falsely statements of the man killing people.

Never a good sign when your cops are backed into a corner having fabricated matters. See OJ.

Are you saying some good ole boy cops from nowhere texas stretched the truth a bit? I grew up on a ranch in no where texas and i have to tell you the cops there would help you bury the body. By the way, all my statements aside, these guys get a raw deal in ranch country. Maybe a mistake was made or maybe not but this is a symptom of the bigger border crisis. I have a soft spot because this guy could have been my Dad.

quote:

I have a soft spot because this guy could have been my Dad.

Your Dad goes outside & shoots people minor trespassing?