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One of Us |
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...9f03ac92efdb3a&ei=36 SANTA FE, N.M. — A New Mexico jury found "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed guilty of involuntary manslaughter and not guilty of tampering with evidence on Wednesday after deliberating for about two and a half hours. The 26-year-old faces up to 18 months in state prison and will be sentenced at a later date. A judge ordered that Gutierrez-Reed be taken into custody and held until her sentencing. The nearly two-week criminal trial centered around the 2021 shooting on the "Rust" film set in which actor Alec Baldwin held a prop gun that fired a live round of ammunition, killing the film's cinematographer, Haylna Hutchins. The bullet also injured director Joel Souza. But Gutierrez-Reed’s attorney, Jason Bowles said that the prosecutors had not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Gutierrez-Reed was responsible for bringing live rounds onto the set and alleged that Baldwin was ultimately responsible for Hutchins's death. “I submit to you what caused her death is Mr. Baldwin going off script. No one ever knew there would be a live round on set. The only act is the pointing of the weapon. Ms Gutierrez didn’t point that weapon,” Bowles said. The prosecution also called out Baldwin, as a "prima donna." "Alec Baldwin’s conduct and his lack of gun safety in the church that day is something he’s going to have to answer for ... Not with you not today, that’s for another jury for another day.” NBC News has reached out to the actor's legal team for comment. His criminal trial begins in July. Juror Albert Sanchez said “pretty much not checking the weapons” was a major factor in his decision in the Gutierrez-Reed case. “Just handing them over, like ‘here.’ Not checking — that was a big deal,” Sanchez said. “I mean, you can’t do that. And if you have live rounds there, and you don’t even know it?” Sanchez said that there wasn't much disagreement among jurors. On the tampering with evidence charge, which involved cocaine, Sanchez said, “we didn’t just think it was necessary,” and “there was nothing there.” ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | ||
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Administrator |
This is all bullshit! She is the armorer! She should NEVER have live ammo on set! PERIOD! | |||
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One of Us |
Sounds like justice was served in this case. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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One of Us |
Doesn't bode well for Baldwin. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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One of Us |
In my youth I was very careless with guns, I am so very happy I never hurt anyone. Seems like the older I get the more wary and suspicious I am, of the darned guns especially. I can think of several recent incidents where someone else has been unsafe with guns. Just last week a coworker was talking about having a few drinks and recreational shooting. I don't think I said a word nor broke my poker face. | |||
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One of Us |
A movie set armorer’s job is to keep live ammo away from the set. She didn’t. I can’t see how she wasn’t negligent, and it looks like the jury said so as well. Too bad for the young lady to get a felony conviction, but it certainly seems deserved. | |||
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One of Us |
Since an Assistant Director loudly declared "Cold Gun" when he handed Baldwin the pistol I disagree. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Moderator |
Hope they are just as hard on the triggerman - you know, the guy that shot 2 people, and killed one of them - say, 20 years opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
Yeah, Baldwin should be held accountable. You don't play with a real gun, or point a firearm at anyone you don't intend to shoot. | |||
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One of Us |
20 years for involuntary manslaughter? So I guess you don't like Baldwin? | |||
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One of Us |
You have an independent duty to check whether a gun is loaded, regardless of what anyone tells you. | |||
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One of Us |
Anywhere except a movie set I'd absolutely agree with you, actors must be assumed to be decorative and stupid and should absolutely never be allowed to so much as open the action of a firearm except as scripted, everything else should be done by people who know what the hell they are doing, unlike this armorer. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One of Us |
That's what blows my mind, how in the world did live ammo end up anywhere nearby? Seriously! Let's get the actors good and liquored up before a scene driving cars fast! Have a juggling act with real grenades. I've got firearms and ammunition in the same room, but the guns are locked in a safe and unloaded and the ammo is on the other side of a 30' wide room and up on inaccessible shelves. I've only got my 7year old im the house and she's never alone, and my ammo is 6' up off the floor and higher | |||
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One of Us |
Seems I remember that some of the crew had been using the prop guns for target practice? This armorer's negligence was an accident looking for a place to land, and apparently there had been more than one previous "accidental discharges" on the set. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One of Us |
Agree with the verdict on the armorer. As to Baldwin, I never pick up any firearm without checking it and I never trust anyone telling me whether or how it is loaded. I think he's equally culpable, but he's a moron when it comes to guns, which was exhibited by him using a revolver as a pointer on set. Someone should have stopped that. Did anyone see the supposed "firearms expert" point the revolver at the judge and the bailiff step in and stop it? He should have been on the set. | |||
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One of Us |
But you would know what you were looking at/for when you opened an action, an assumption that's inappropriate to make with an actor, and the prime reason there's an armorer on set. As for Baldwin's culpability I'll leave that to a jury that hears/sees all the evidence to decide. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One of Us |
Agreed. We'll see if the movie set defense flies with a jury. | |||
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One of Us |
A face I would like to know as a juror and a lawyer was did Baldwin engage in uninstructed, improper firearm handling while on this shoot. More than a jury, I am interested to see what the appellate courts in NM do with this. Assuming a conviction in entered. | |||
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One of Us |
Prop guns don't even have a normal chamber, how the hell did she load it to fire a live cartridge.. | |||
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one of us |
If I were a juror, I would convict Baldwin based on what I know now. When he was handed the gun, he had a responsibility to ensure it was safe. The responsibility passes along with the chain of custody. If he didn't know what a live round looked like, he could have shown the armorer what he found and asked, "Is this safe to handle?". If live rounds were discovered, the armorer should have been fired on the spot. | |||
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One of Us |
For almost 100 years in Westerns to Heat (very well done) we used real firearms in films safely. Here we are. | |||
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One of Us |
I'm sure glad they didn't have an accidental discharge on the set of Star Trek or Star Wars. ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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One of Us |
Han Solo’s blaster is/was a broom handle Mauser. I think the stormtroopers guns are some propped up WWII SMG. And I do think Baldwin’s goose is cooked. He hired her, he is an actor with lots of experience. He should well have known that usual movie protocols were being violated… and if they had an AD on set before (a close call) it was up to him to deal with the deficiencies. So any gross negligence on his subordinates reflects back on him, especially since he was there when it’s happening (duh… lead actor)… | |||
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One of Us |
There were a couple of MG42 Ms used for base blasters. Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Out of Africa, Ghost in the Darkness, Dirty Harry, and Collateral Damage all used real firearms on set. Dirty Harry dry fires a full functional M29, 44 Mag in Dirty Harry Bank Shoot. They shot it to make it look like it was pointed at the person. When he really was not, and cut it together. Thst is why if you look closely at first it is cocked, and then in the next cut the hammer is down for the trigger stroke. | |||
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Moderator |
if he didn't check and clear the firearm, the least charge that should be considered is NEGLIGENT homicide - not a single reasonable person with the least knowledge of firearms safety would point a gun at people and pull the trigger without, at a minimum, checking to see if it's loaded - there is literally not a single person on the planet that can hand me a gun and i don't check to see the condition - it takes 5 seconds Bladwin pointed a gun, in unproven condition, at people and pulled the trigger. the gun didn't just "go off" - and it's a wheel gun, someone might try to use the "hair trigger" defense .. that when cocked into single action that the pull is lighter ... sometimes shockingly so ... but if not pointed at other human beings, it wouldn't have hit human beings With the "justice" system trying to diminish his agency in the event, it's important to recall that this wasn't a "tragic accident" -- someone pulled the trigger after pointing it at people ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
I'm sure Baldwin did cock the hammer and pull the trigger, just as he has dozens of other times. By your reasoning Tom Hanks should have some ability to pilot a Mercury rocket and command a battleship. I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be criminal convictions in this matter, the woman needlessly died. If I ran someone over with my pickup id expect a criminal conviction. It was a tragic accident, I don't see how else it could be labeled. Regardless anyone's training and experience, I think all were shocked that there was live ammo within five miles of the movie set. I was certainly surprised. It's understandable that Baldwin and the armorer need to be punished for the accident, but most certainly was involuntary. | |||
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Moderator |
nope. not even part of the conversation, so let's just ignore that distractor opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
It is more complicated than that. We do not want actors changing the condition of a firearm after it is declared safe by the expert who has complete control of the set. | |||
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One of Us |
Checking a firearm to make sure it's unloaded is not changing the condition of the firearm. Once a gun is handed to someone, they have complete control of and responsibility for that gun. The rules don't change just for actors. | |||
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One of Us |
I won't argue this further than this post, but you are making the assumption actors know anything about firearms, and as I mentioned above, battleships, moon missions, race cars, nuke weapons,...... Baldwin did it, that's just the way it is. I think there has to be consequences for a human life taken. I think Baldwin could have said, "hey, you know, like guns freak me out! I don't know anything about them, we've got guns everywhere around here, can we have some kind of redundant triple check to make sure not a single person here needs so much as a bandaid because of a firearm?" and he didn't. How terribly sad. I think this idea that any entertainer should naturally have an understanding of a movie prop is silly. Not everyone can be Tom Cruise and actually fly airplanes. I doubt Angelina Jolie knows anymore about firearm safety than my seven year old does. | |||
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One of Us |
Scott King, We disagree. About most everything. But this never would have happened to John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. | |||
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One of Us |
A real gun is not a prop. If actors are going to play with real guns--as opposed to props--they should be charged with responsibility for gun safety. | |||
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One of Us |
On modern sets Duke Wayne and Eastwood are not allowed to open the action, open cylinders of firearms. They would be handed them when the armorer says so. Then firearms immediately removed from their control. | |||
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One of Us |
I suspect we agree on far more than we disagree, and the way you phrased the above gave me a big grin. | |||
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one of us |
Much as I despise Baldwin, he was handed a "cold gun", per industry standards. If he's guilty of something, it's chiseling the cost of firearm safety on set. I think...I am not on a jury and have no access to admissible evidence. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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One of Us |
As I understand the events, Baldwin was not on set, acting or performing the role, when the event happened. It happened before "action". He was messing around with a gun he thought was loaded with blanks or maybe empty. He aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. So, the question I have in mind is what's the difference in whether the "accident" occurred before "action" or after, except who was shot? It could have been a fellow actor shot or also with a loaded gun. ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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One of Us |
Assuming the series of faces are true, not implying they are not, Baldwin is in trouble. He should not be handling the firearm prior to direction. Of course, the armorer should not have had live ammo w/in a hundred miles of the set, but that does not change the fact Baldwin according to industry best practices should not have had the firearm and manipulating it. That is what trials are for, to set the facts. Initially, the prosecution announced their theory of Baldwin’s criminal liability rest w him being producer knowing or should have known this armorer was running an unsafe set making this death forcible. Now, the facts are significantly different as you have framed it which underscores recharging after a dismissal without prejudice. I hope legally, morally for Baldwin’s sake the facts are not as you described. That is a hope, not an endorsement of what the facts are. In conclusion, the facts alleged, framed as you present them are sufficient, in my mind, to support conviction for involuntary manslaughter. Actually, I would not have a problem with Wanton Murder (we have that in KY) if the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt supports the facts as you explained. | |||
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