quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Your article link is blocked to me.

quote:

BIDEN said
"And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up," said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Politifact explanation
Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing. But he didn’t say people should drink bleach.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Ya think!
When they asked Fauci where the 6 ft rule came about.... He said " well, ha-ha, it just sort of appeared, there was no basis for it, just everyone went with it". very scientific, for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Your article link is blocked to me.

Let me help you out. You are promoting and disseminating “disinformation.”

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This might be TMI, too scientific for some of you but it is cogent as the problem is world wide. Waterfowl migrate 2X a year. They are naturally attracted to other waterfowl resting on the ground, etc. They have regular travel routes.

In my experience as a poultry farmer even vaccination for Marek's Disease is seriously problematic. It's caused resistance and the virus responsible for the disease mutates making it ineffective but created new strains. I thus do not vaccinate my birds for Marek's. I have to get my poultry tested yearly since I cross state lines with birds and also ship live birds all over the USA.

Look for stuff like African swine fever to become a sudden problem Stateside too.

For laboratories to play around and create other strains of virus's under the guise of 'gain of function' is something I have never agreed with. Someone always sets these things loose.

~~~~~~~
French Authorities Mandate Self-Amplifying mRNA Injections and a Third Booster Dose for Ducks Against Bird Flu

Risks of viral mutations, breakthrough infections, and human health concerns from mRNA residues in meat are ignored by public health officials.

Nicolas Hulscher, MPH
Jan 04, 2025

By Nicolas Hulscher, MPH

Esteemed researcher Hélène Banoun has just published an article titled, Duck vaccination against bird flu in France, that provides a comprehensive overview of the reckless mass avian influenza duck vaccination campaign. Here are the key points:
1. Introduction to Duck Vaccination Campaign in France

France is the only country mandating vaccination of ducks against H5N1 avian influenza for farms with over 250 ducks​.

The vaccine campaign was launched in autumn 2023, targeting 61 million ducks annually, using both CEVA's self-amplifying mRNA vaccine and Boehringer's subunit vaccine​.

Farms with fewer than 250 ducks are prohibited from vaccinating​.

Despite being the only nation enforcing mass duck vaccination, no evidence exists of stringent safety measures to prevent vaccine residues in meat, nor transparency in pharmacokinetic studies.

2. Vaccine Types and Selection Process

Two vaccines were tested and approved:

Boehringer Ingelheim's subunit vaccine: Traditional inactivated H5 subunit vaccine​.

CEVA's self-amplifying mRNA vaccine: Encapsulated in ferric nanoparticles, contains squalene, and requires precise storage​.

Initially, only Boehringer's vaccine was approved due to logistical constraints with CEVA's storage requirements. In 2024, authorities purchased doses from both companies​.

The introduction of CEVA's mRNA vaccine in food-producing animals raises significant concerns due to the lack of biodistribution and pharmacokinetic studies, as well as potential squalene toxicity in humans.

3. Vaccine Efficacy and Viral Shedding

Viral shedding continues for up to 14 days, even in vaccinated ducks​.

In trials, vaccinated ducks still excreted the virus in significant amounts, posing ongoing risks for viral mutation and transmission​.

Vaccination fails to prevent virus shedding effectively, undermining the justification for mandatory mass vaccination and raising the risk of silent virus propagation.

4. Risks of Vaccine-Induced Mutations

Vaccination can drive viral evolution, favoring more virulent or vaccine-resistant strains, as seen in China with H5N1​.

Incomplete protection encourages silent spread, where infected but vaccinated birds show minimal symptoms while still excreting the virus​.

Evidence suggests that vaccination does not prevent the emergence of more pathogenic variants, contradicting the core objective​.

5. Breakthrough Infections on Vaccinated Farms

Despite widespread vaccination, outbreaks occurred in vaccinated flocks in late 2024, including confirmed cases in Landes and Eure​.

Affected areas implemented strict containment measures, including mass culling and trade restrictions​.

Breakthrough infections undermine the credibility of the vaccination strategy, as the measures required to contain outbreaks mirror those used before vaccination campaigns began.

6. Regulatory and Ethical Concerns

The French Ministry of Agriculture mandated a third dose for mulard ducks, despite only two doses being approved under the vaccine's ATU (Temporary Use Authorization)​.

The introduction of off-label dosing protocols creates significant ethical and liability concerns, exposing veterinarians and producers to potential legal repercussions.

7. Human Health Risks from mRNA Vaccine Residues

CEVA’s self-amplifying mRNA may persist in duck tissues due to lipid nanoparticle (LNP) encapsulation, which protects mRNA from gastric degradation​

Poorly cooked duck meat could theoretically deliver intact mRNA particles to consumers, raising concerns about inadvertent human “vaccination”​.

No biodistribution or pharmacokinetic studies have been conducted to assess these risks​.

The absence of pharmacokinetic studies represents a grave regulatory failure, as the long-term risks of mRNA ingestion remain unknown.

8. Broader Implications

Poultry vaccination is not accepted internationally for export, limiting market access for French producers​.

Vaccination campaigns continue without evidence of significant improvement in outbreak control​.

France risks economic and public trust damage while pursuing a strategy unsupported by international best practices.

Conclusion

The compulsory duck vaccination program in France reveals significant scientific, ethical, and regulatory concerns:

Limited vaccine efficacy with persistent viral shedding.

Risk of viral mutation driven by vaccination pressure.

Human health risks associated with mRNA residues in duck meat.

Breakthrough infections proving the campaign's limitations.

Legal ambiguities regarding off-label vaccination practices.

This paper indicates that mass animal avian influenza vaccination campaigns must never be initiated in the United States as is currently being pushed for by ‘experts’. The large number of risks far outweigh any theoretical benefits.

Nicolas Hulscher, MPH

Epidemiologist and Foundation Administrator, McCullough Foundation

www.mcculloughfnd.org

Please consider following the McCullough Foundation and Nicolas Hulscher on X (formerly Twitter) for further content.

https://petermcculloughmd.subs...-amplifying/comments

Not for viruses I know, but im always depressed at the tons and tons of antibiotics that get poured into farm animals.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
His conclusions are every bit as problematic as the practices he is attacking.

The mandatory duck vaccination campaign in France is problematic in that it has not been tested yet- it may well be a forerunner of a worldwide standard... if it works out.

I don't know that viral mutation is driven by vaccine use- rather a successful mutation will be selected for a bit more quickly- its not causative of mutation. The mutations will happen regardless, and be found in the wild.

Human health risks from mRNA are a canard. We eat mRNA all the time. His comment that the lipid nanoparticle encapsulation protects from gastric (acid) degradation is true. That eating this meat that is cooked and then digested is likely to allow the vaccine to enter your bloodstream and be "immunizing" people to avian flu seems a bit off- or else we would be giving mRNA vaccines orally. Has it been extensively studied? No. Should it be? Sure.

Breakthrough infections proving limitations? Yes. But in a similar vein should we pull all antibiotics off the market because they have a defined rate of failure, and are known to cause some biological "downstream" effects? Has this selfsame arbiter of what is appropriate said as much about the wholesale use of antibiotics in feed or veterinary use?

Legal ambiguities? Come on.

His paper did not indicate that mass avian influenza vaccination campaigns should never be pursued. It at best indicated that there are some areas that should be looked at a bit more closely before something becomes a official policy course of action.

He in his conclusion shows that he is not a very competent scientist- he's every bit as much of an overstater as the folks that pushed mandatory vaccination for covid were. His bread is buttered by making hyperbolic antivaccine claims.

quote:

We eat mRNA all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
oh, honey -- this is just like the SNL /Sarah palin thingie -- BIDEN said trump said drink bleach, trump did not

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Your article link is blocked to me.

you hit the "X" in the top right of the pop-up and it goes away --
but, given you being technologically challenged today... here you go, a link to politifact, where I am certain you have a subscription

https://www.politifact.com/fac...nfected-coronavirus/

gist from politifact

quote:

BIDEN said
"And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up," said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Politifact explanation
Trump spoke about the role he thought disinfectants could play in tackling an infection caused by the virus during a now infamous April 23 briefing. But he didn’t say people should drink bleach.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I think we are just seeing what mixing his meds and booze does. He stopped making sense tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'm not doing this again. I'll live my way until I die and I'm not listening to the government.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I think we are just seeing what mixing his meds and booze does. He stopped making sense tonight.

Was thinking the exact same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I think we are just seeing what mixing his meds and booze does. He stopped making sense tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Sometimes I wonder about you ME.

You've just said you goal is trolling. Which really undermines any thing you add too the forum.

quote:

Better if you dont post while sloshed.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
To be fair If someone made the trump claims to me I would have accepted them as fact too. That's how insidious false info is, and both sides of the political spectrum are as guilty of spreading and believing it as the other.

quote:

False equivalence is an easy claim to make that doesn't seem to require any level of proof to back it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
His conclusions are every bit as problematic as the practices he is attacking.

The mandatory duck vaccination campaign in France is problematic in that it has not been tested yet- it may well be a forerunner of a worldwide standard... if it works out.

I don't know that viral mutation is driven by vaccine use- rather a successful mutation will be selected for a bit more quickly- its not causative of mutation. The mutations will happen regardless, and be found in the wild.

Human health risks from mRNA are a canard. We eat mRNA all the time. His comment that the lipid nanoparticle encapsulation protects from gastric (acid) degradation is true. That eating this meat that is cooked and then digested is likely to allow the vaccine to enter your bloodstream and be "immunizing" people to avian flu seems a bit off- or else we would be giving mRNA vaccines orally. Has it been extensively studied? No. Should it be? Sure.

Breakthrough infections proving limitations? Yes. But in a similar vein should we pull all antibiotics off the market because they have a defined rate of failure, and are known to cause some biological "downstream" effects? Has this selfsame arbiter of what is appropriate said as much about the wholesale use of antibiotics in feed or veterinary use?

Legal ambiguities? Come on.

His paper did not indicate that mass avian influenza vaccination campaigns should never be pursued. It at best indicated that there are some areas that should be looked at a bit more closely before something becomes a official policy course of action.

He in his conclusion shows that he is not a very competent scientist- he's every bit as much of an overstater as the folks that pushed mandatory vaccination for covid were. His bread is buttered by making hyperbolic antivaccine claims.

quote:

We eat mRNA all the time.

mRNA is how your cells get the information from the nucleus to produce proteins. Any cell pretty much has some mRNA in it. Therefore, you eat meat or eggs, you are eating mRNA. You eat living plants, you eat mRNA.

Okay, like what?

I can tell you I have no access to any antibiotics OTC in any farm store. Have to get such medication from a veterinarian. In fact, I have to run birds in next week just to get a supply of Baytril which I will inject into sick birds. I'd certainly prefer OTC since I have to medicate them myself anyway.

Saw some for cattle at the local fleet-farm store last time I was there. Huge bottle of penicillin.

Look at chick feed. It has antibiotics in it, or at least it did the last time I looked.

So is it your conclusion is that viral mutations via vaccinations have never happened?
I suppose it is possible, but I doubt it. Vaccines can conceivably cause selection for an already mutated virus, but vaccines would be carcinogenic if they caused mutations by themselves.

I don't understand your opinion here. It did happen with Marek's Disease which is why I mentioned it.
Here's what the Merk manual says about Marek's disease. I don't see anything about it being from vaccination.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com...s-disease-in-poultry

It says that Marek's disease vaccination doesn't work once a outbreak occurrs. It also said that the Marek's disease vaccine (a live attenuated virus) is used with genome splicing to create vaccines for other diseases, and works for that.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
That's a plausible explanation.

Ive been guilty of posting after a whisky or two on occasion myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
That's a plausible explanation.

Ive been guilty of posting after a whisky or two on occasion myself.

Lucky you!

At least you can blame it on the whisky!

I don’t drink, so who do I bake it on??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
That's a plausible explanation.

Ive been guilty of posting after a whisky or two on occasion myself.

Lucky you!

At least you can blame it on the whisky!

I don’t drink, so who do I bake it on??

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Right, so Im going to refute your claim of false equivalence re I presume my statement that both sides do it. As that's the only equivalence I made I think.

Ive picked one member of the US congress from the democrat side, to put up against your favourite republican.

https://www.politifact.com/fac...andria-ocasio-cortez

there's 13 examples from one politician.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
His conclusions are every bit as problematic as the practices he is attacking.

The mandatory duck vaccination campaign in France is problematic in that it has not been tested yet- it may well be a forerunner of a worldwide standard... if it works out.

I don't know that viral mutation is driven by vaccine use- rather a successful mutation will be selected for a bit more quickly- its not causative of mutation. The mutations will happen regardless, and be found in the wild.

Human health risks from mRNA are a canard. We eat mRNA all the time. His comment that the lipid nanoparticle encapsulation protects from gastric (acid) degradation is true. That eating this meat that is cooked and then digested is likely to allow the vaccine to enter your bloodstream and be "immunizing" people to avian flu seems a bit off- or else we would be giving mRNA vaccines orally. Has it been extensively studied? No. Should it be? Sure.

Breakthrough infections proving limitations? Yes. But in a similar vein should we pull all antibiotics off the market because they have a defined rate of failure, and are known to cause some biological "downstream" effects? Has this selfsame arbiter of what is appropriate said as much about the wholesale use of antibiotics in feed or veterinary use?

Legal ambiguities? Come on.

His paper did not indicate that mass avian influenza vaccination campaigns should never be pursued. It at best indicated that there are some areas that should be looked at a bit more closely before something becomes a official policy course of action.

He in his conclusion shows that he is not a very competent scientist- he's every bit as much of an overstater as the folks that pushed mandatory vaccination for covid were. His bread is buttered by making hyperbolic antivaccine claims.

quote:

We eat mRNA all the time.

mRNA is how your cells get the information from the nucleus to produce proteins. Any cell pretty much has some mRNA in it. Therefore, you eat meat or eggs, you are eating mRNA. You eat living plants, you eat mRNA.

Okay, like what?

I can tell you I have no access to any antibiotics OTC in any farm store. Have to get such medication from a veterinarian. In fact, I have to run birds in next week just to get a supply of Baytril which I will inject into sick birds. I'd certainly prefer OTC since I have to medicate them myself anyway.

Saw some for cattle at the local fleet-farm store last time I was there. Huge bottle of penicillin.

Look at chick feed. It has antibiotics in it, or at least it did the last time I looked.

So is it your conclusion is that viral mutations via vaccinations have never happened?
I suppose it is possible, but I doubt it. Vaccines can conceivably cause selection for an already mutated virus, but vaccines would be carcinogenic if they caused mutations by themselves.

I don't understand your opinion here. It did happen with Marek's Disease which is why I mentioned it.
Here's what the Merk manual says about Marek's disease. I don't see anything about it being from vaccination.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com...s-disease-in-poultry

It says that Marek's disease vaccination doesn't work once a outbreak occurrs. It also said that the Marek's disease vaccine (a live attenuated virus) is used with genome splicing to create vaccines for other diseases, and works for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Right, so Im going to refute your claim of false equivalence re I presume my statement that both sides do it. As that's the only equivalence I made I think.

Ive picked one member of the US congress from the democrat side, to put up against your favourite republican.

https://www.politifact.com/fac...andria-ocasio-cortez

there's 13 examples from one politician.

Interesting. So, you earned one hash mark in the skivvies of cyberspace.

BTW, in the previous post, I just made a lame joke, "that goes both ways".

quote:

people are calling you on false claims.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

people are calling you on false claims.

I didn't notice.

Maybe because it's irrelevant, non-important and non-consequential.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

people are calling you on false claims.

I didn't notice.

Maybe because it's irrelevant, non-important and non-consequential.

Your claims? Yeah, that's why people are calling you out on them

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

people are calling you on false claims.

I didn't notice.

Maybe because it's irrelevant, non-important and non-consequential.

Your claims? Yeah, that's why people are calling you out on them

What's wrong with that? If they are false, then go ahead, make my day.

How relevant is it that you have multiple times "called me out" on a claim about Palin. I accepted your correction the first time. yet ... you still harp.

What's your point? Certainly it's not to contribute. That leaves the probability of trolling.

Distraction is your thing.